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Author Topic: Mame rom legality question  (Read 14075 times)

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Pasi

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Mame rom legality question
« on: September 11, 2013, 05:34:29 am »
Hello everyone

I searched forums for this but I need somebody makes it even more clearer "for dummies" way - I was wondering about legal issues. If I bring my home made MAME cabinet to public exhibition for people enjoyment(free play), are those ROMs(games) seriously illegal..? I can read, what every game says when starting them up, but I have considered that more as a joke. I am seriously against any piratism, but these games are 20-30 years old, is it even possible to "own" them?? And those companys do not earn money with those titles anymore I suppose(?..)
Should I -in the fear of SWAT-team crashing in- bring empty mame cabinet there so people can admire Windows XP desktop..  :o

Unstupid

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2013, 06:05:13 am »
It depends on your cabinet... If your cabinet is "crapmame" worthy then it is very illegal, but if your cabinet is awesome then it is just a little illegal...  ;)

Post a pic of your rig and we can judge if it's "public exhibition" ready!  :D

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2013, 07:09:20 am »
It depends on your cabinet... If your cabinet is "crapmame" worthy then it is very illegal, but if your cabinet is awesome then it is just a little illegal...  ;)

Post a pic of your rig and we can judge if it's "public exhibition" ready!  :D

HAHAHA!

SavannahLion

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2013, 07:56:30 am »
This comes up every so often (more often than I like) and the actual bare-knuckle answer is pretty straight forward. ROMS are illegal..... in the U.S. (see if anyone notices that qualifier.)

What most people have issues wrapping their head around is just "how illegal is it?" why and where.

Like opinions, everyone is has an ---uvula--- and in a forum with 100 people, you'll get 150 differing opinions on this particular subject, nearly all of them wrong, slightly wrong, or just so far off base that they're playing Moon Patrol from Mars. I'll try to bring up a couple of points and let the other ---uvulas--- forum members tear it apart and tell me how wrong I am.

* It depends on your country. but a general rule of thumb is that games enjoy the same legal protections as other works of art like books. Hence, the term copyright is often bandied about (though I doubt 90% of the population in the U.S. even knows what it really means). That means one has to consider when it was published, who owns it and what has been done with it by the owner. As a general rule of thumb, games created after 1978 will not have their copyright expire for 70 years plus life of author. For works for hire the copyright is 95 or 120 years depending on certain factors. Before 1978, it's 95 years. Did you get lost yet? Here it is, despite what anyone wants you to believe, no game has had their copyright expire as no video games existed prior to 1923. Update: I forgot about the "28 year renewal" period only a very small handful of games are in public domain and I don't believe any are emulated in MAME anyways as these all predate 1964.

* Some authors have released their games into public domain to allow others to enjoy. These are few and listed on the MAME website. Some are vicious and will do anything to protect their games. Go look up the history of TETRIS to get an idea of how far someone will go. For the bulk of the games out there, it's often best to consider them as forgotten (this is not the same as abandon-ware) by whoever owns the copyrights.

* Finally, it's a risk assessment. Is Marijuana illegal in the U.S. Yes. Even medical MJ isn't recognized by the feds. So is it wise to take your MJM card down to Mexico or to a different state to try and buy pot? No, you're a ---smurfing--- moron for it. That happens because people get the cards and think it's a license to smoke and grow pot anywhere. It doesn't work that way. MAME is like that. Want to install MAME in your own cab and play it in your own house? Sure, you'll probably not even get a flea to care as long as you're not trying to do other stupid things (like sharing 10,000 songs). But start trying to make money off it, or take it to a public place and your risk goes up. How much does your risk goes up? Depends. Take it to a flea market and it's never going to get noticed amongst all the fake purses, jeans and crack pipes. Set it up as a quarter muncher at E3 and someone is bound to notice.


It depends on your cabinet... If your cabinet is "crapmame" worthy then it is very illegal, but if your cabinet is awesome then it is just a little illegal...  ;)

Post a pic of your rig and we can judge if it's "public exhibition" ready!  :D

Sweetest response I've heard in a long time.

« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 08:11:47 am by SavannahLion »

BadMouth

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2013, 09:30:47 am »
Using roms for games you don't own is illegal, public or private.

Using MAME in public regardless of whether you charge for it or not is a violation of its license.

Nobody is going to come after you, except maybe the local authority that taxes amusement machines.
That varies wildly by locality.

ChadTower

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2013, 09:36:02 am »

Why respond to someone bringing up that question in their first post?



BadMouth

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2013, 09:50:07 am »

Why respond to someone bringing up that question in their first post?


To pair the question with the correct answer yet again.
I assumed it was a bored regular hoping to stir up ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.

CraftyMech

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2013, 10:07:28 am »
Quote
It depends on your cabinet... If your cabinet is "crapmame" worthy then it is very illegal, but if your cabinet is awesome then it is just a little illegal...  ;)

Legality is inversely proportional to the number of buttons on the control panel.
BitKit 8bit FPGA Multi - http://craftymech.com

UFO

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2013, 10:18:51 am »
Here we go again...

There should be a sticky on BIG letters... :D

Getting ready for the usual suspect penis boy to chip in - still at school though, I think...

chopperthedog

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2013, 10:22:09 am »
* chopperthedog awaits for the ark to sail through the haze.


good day.

CoryBee

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2013, 10:30:18 am »
* chopperthedog awaits for the ark to sail through the haze.


boob day.

HA! I get the reference.

Vigo

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2013, 10:33:58 am »
Its only legal if you go to the US Federal Department of MAME Affairs and file a 1048-C. If you Have a spinner/trackball or other special control, you will also need to fill out a 1048-G. It will take 4-8 weeks to receive your proper registration for public freeplay usage.

BadMouth

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2013, 10:49:01 am »
* chopperthedog awaits for the ark to sail through the haze.


good day.


lilshawn

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2013, 12:21:47 pm »
hmmmmmm...... looks shifty.

how long does it take to create an account here and get your confirmation e-mail? about 15 mins?

:troll:

Hoopz

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2013, 12:25:57 pm »
Depends on the specs on your cabinet.  Did you angle the joysticks?  USB or PS/2?  What's the best FE to run?

Ignore the trolls.  I'm here to help.   :cheers:

jimmer

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2013, 01:09:07 pm »
Hello everyone
...

Hi Pasi,
Laws vary by country. Hope that helps.
On forums jimmer speaks for himself as a Defender fan, not as proprietor of www.jbgaming.co.uk  << Is that advertising or disclosure ? or both ?

UFO

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Re: Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2013, 03:33:54 pm »
* chopperthedog awaits for the ark to sail through the haze.


good day.

Hmmm....

Malenko

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2013, 04:16:23 pm »
the post is titles about legality, the question seems to be more about morality.

the only thing you can use roms for is fixing your boards AFAIK, and the public domain ones can be used on MAME in private.
If you're replying to a troll you are part of the problem.
I also need to follow this advice. Ignore or report, don't reply.

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2013, 05:47:36 pm »
How come Pasi hasn't come back to join the fun?

Shame that ... ;D

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2013, 05:58:19 pm »
the post is titles about legality, the question seems to be more about morality.

the only thing you can use roms for is fixing your boards AFAIK, and the public domain ones can be used on MAME in private.

The mame license itself is not a law (and also didn't exist at all in the earlier versions). Also the "released" roms seem to have had additional restrictive text put on them by the mame devs that were not put there by the people who released them. Jamie Fenton's website straight up says "I have chosen to permit MAME users to duplicate and play the ROM images for Robby Roto free of charge." It doesn't say anything about commercial use or where they can be downloaded from or that they can only be used privately.
Acceptance of Zen philosophy is marred slightly by the nagging thought that if all things are interconnected, then all things must be in some way involved with Pauly Shore.

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2013, 06:12:39 pm »
The mame license itself is not a law (and also didn't exist at all in the earlier versions). Also the "released" roms seem to have had additional restrictive text put on them by the mame devs that were not put there by the people who released them. Jamie Fenton's website straight up says "I have chosen to permit MAME users to duplicate and play the ROM images for Robby Roto free of charge." It doesn't say anything about commercial use or where they can be downloaded from or that they can only be used privately.

I'll use your Jamie Fenton example in my retort.

Lets assume Jamie Fenton means you can do whatever you want with his ROMs, even make bootleg boards and sell them.
But if you want to use MAME (like the "OP" implies), you are making a choice to use software in a way the creators have asked you not to. Both parts of the equation have to say its ok for it to be completely ok. So MAME in private with robby roto is 100% legit and ok with everyone except maybe Ark, but no one listens to him anyway.

This of course is my opinion and Im known to not know ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, and Im ok with that. If you (this means ANYONE, not you specifically Paige) think its cool to use mame in public, or to have working mechs and put it on location, Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.



My point was his question wasnt a legal one, it was an ethical/moral one. I digress.
If you're replying to a troll you are part of the problem.
I also need to follow this advice. Ignore or report, don't reply.

UFO

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2013, 06:44:25 pm »
In all this, if you wanted to profit from a cab, it doesnt take much knowledge of Flash to make your own bunch of games and install the cab wherever you like.

You could have a "Galaxian" type game, a "Donkey Kong" type one or whatever you want.

You could charge to play as its your game(s).

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2013, 07:30:19 pm »
For the record I think putting mame cabinets on location is stupid. If I wanted to operate a multicabinet I would buy an Arcade Legends or Ultracade. However if I was operating machines I would probably instead run nothing but cranes, sticker machines and late 90s drivers as I would want to actually make money. The only reason I would even have the drivers is because most locations will want a vid or two in addition to the cranes and sticker machines and the 90s drivers are dirt cheap at auction.

I was really just picking nits at the issues. IIRC there is actually a very narrow range of early mame releases that don't have a software license and DO support Robby Roto.

The mame license itself is not a law (and also didn't exist at all in the earlier versions). Also the "released" roms seem to have had additional restrictive text put on them by the mame devs that were not put there by the people who released them. Jamie Fenton's website straight up says "I have chosen to permit MAME users to duplicate and play the ROM images for Robby Roto free of charge." It doesn't say anything about commercial use or where they can be downloaded from or that they can only be used privately.

I'll use your Jamie Fenton example in my retort.

Lets assume Jamie Fenton means you can do whatever you want with his ROMs, even make bootleg boards and sell them.
But if you want to use MAME (like the "OP" implies), you are making a choice to use software in a way the creators have asked you not to. Both parts of the equation have to say its ok for it to be completely ok. So MAME in private with robby roto is 100% legit and ok with everyone except maybe Ark, but no one listens to him anyway.

This of course is my opinion and Im known to not know ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, and Im ok with that. If you (this means ANYONE, not you specifically Paige) think its cool to use mame in public, or to have working mechs and put it on location, Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.



My point was his question wasnt a legal one, it was an ethical/moral one. I digress.
Acceptance of Zen philosophy is marred slightly by the nagging thought that if all things are interconnected, then all things must be in some way involved with Pauly Shore.

Pasi

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2013, 04:39:26 am »
Hi guys

Seems like I kicked ants nest..  ;-]   Thanks for answers, funny and trolls, combining them gave me -sort of- answer for my question. Thing is, like I thought it would.

Some wondered why post this kind of question for first post? Well, long time BYOAC reader, finally registered. first mame cab on the way, some people asked me to bring it to the show. Then that question arised - I have common sense, but sometimes you have to consider juridical issues, even they would feel stupid. Better safe than sorry, so to speak.

I´ll show pics when its finished.
ps. I am from Finland, Europe.

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2013, 10:44:46 am »
Well well well.....

(rolling up sleeves)

There is no point to go around this topic so many times, unless we have a unstable mamedev threaten us with violence for using 60-1 boards.   :laugh2:

Maybe we can just post a link to the tiresome crap of last whatever.   :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah:

If it is in MAME then it is legal to copy and use in a commercial environment if you own the dead machine.  Otherwise nobody gives a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- what you do, especially in Finland.  If anyone did, just tell them to take a hike in the snow.   :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah:

Nobody will come and get you, since nobody here has been sent to jail for playing 30 year old game roms in your home.  ::)

Mamedevs are a bunch of hypocrites IMO.   :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah:



« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 01:28:23 pm by ark_ader »
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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2013, 03:53:35 am »
Well... ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, should've said where you were from the get-go. I doubt a good portion of the U.S. population can find Finland on a map or even know what it is. Of course, I also think Northern California should secede from Southern California but that's neither here or there.

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2013, 05:44:24 am »
just ignore ark_ader and his incorrect advice.

every time he gives bad / illegal advice on purpose I'm just hitting the report to moderator button, you should do the same.

if he continues, I'll concede that he wins and the forum doesn't want correct advice but would rather listen to people saying it's ok to use MAME where it isn't, and retire my account here.

Malenko

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2013, 08:00:45 am »
I doubt a good portion of the U.S. population can find Finland on a map or even know what it is.

You have my curiosity. Can you elaborate?
If you're replying to a troll you are part of the problem.
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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2013, 09:03:07 am »
I doubt a good portion of the U.S. population can find Finland on a map or even know what it is.

You have my curiosity. Can you elaborate?



 :-[

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2013, 09:54:32 am »
Of course, I also think Northern California should secede from Southern California but that's neither here or there.

 :cheers:

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2013, 11:43:56 am »
I doubt a good portion of the U.S. population can find Finland on a map or even know what it is.

You have my curiosity. Can you elaborate?

 :-[
I don't think a good portion of Americans qualify for beauty pageants.
If you're replying to a troll you are part of the problem.
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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2013, 11:50:01 am »
Personally, I think they should shut off the water and sell Cali back to Mexico for one American dollar.

Other than that, in Finland, bring your cab to the show.  As long as it's not crapmame worthy.

AJ

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2013, 12:00:40 pm »
.....and sometimes the original creator of the game will play their game on your cab and be happy about it.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=103161.0
(video link long dead unfortunately)

Vigo

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2013, 12:14:20 pm »
I would love to go to Finland. I hear Helsinki is an awesome place to visit, and the northern region of Finland is suppose to be stunningly beautiful.  :cheers:

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2013, 12:36:44 pm »
+1.  Home of Kimi. 

AJ

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2013, 02:58:46 pm »
What in the heck is a Finland?!  Is it compatible with the latest version of MAME?
















 ;D

So once again, we find that evil of the past seeps into the present like salad dressing through cheap wax paper, mixing memory and desire.

SavannahLion

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2013, 03:36:12 pm »
I doubt a good portion of the U.S. population can find Finland on a map or even know what it is.

You have my curiosity. Can you elaborate?

 :-[
I don't think a good portion of Americans qualify for beauty pageants.

You would think so then there's Honey Booboo. It appears that most of America is using a different dictionary from the rest of the world.

Malenko

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2013, 03:39:02 pm »
I doubt a good portion of the U.S. population can find Finland on a map or even know what it is.

You have my curiosity. Can you elaborate?

 :-[
I don't think a good portion of Americans qualify for beauty pageants.

You would think so then there's Honey Booboo. It appears that most of America is using a different dictionary from the rest of the world.


King Hat? DICTIONARY IS TOO HEAVY, GET RID OF SOME WORDS!

pretty sure no one will get that reference without having to look it up.
If you're replying to a troll you are part of the problem.
I also need to follow this advice. Ignore or report, don't reply.

UFO

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2013, 05:24:45 pm »
just ignore ark_ader and his incorrect advice.

every time he gives bad / illegal advice on purpose I'm just hitting the report to moderator button, you should do the same.

if he continues, I'll concede that he wins and the forum doesn't want correct advice but would rather listen to people saying it's ok to use MAME where it isn't, and retire my account here.

 :applaud:

jennifer

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Re: Mame rom legality question
« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2013, 08:59:18 pm »
        Anybody seen Jennifer?.... I bet she would be all, " Set it up, on freeplay nobody should bother you, "At worst for a first violaton a stiff lecture on right and wrong, possibly a small fine, and at the very outside [on a first offence] they will take the machine....But again most likely nothing bad will happen and kids will have a good time with it.