Need Help Making a MAME Machine out of a Mortal Kombat 1 Cabinet

[robneal81]

Hi Everyone,

I'm just starting my first actual arcade project and would to ask for some help from the experts.  I have a lot of experience with MAME, MaLa and building "arcade machines", this is just the first time I'm using a real arcade cabinet and not a PC with RGB monitor and X-Arcade. 

I bought a Mortal Kombat 1 machine that is in perfect working order.  I then bought a J-Pac, unplugged the MK1 board and plugged in my PC (which has an ArcadeVGA card, Windows 7 and MaLa/MaMe pre-configured).  Everything works great except the following:

- The screen resolution looks weird.  Can I set it to the exact resolution & refresh rate of the MK monitor?  Arcade Perfect keeps crashing on me...is that the only way to do it, or is there another tool?  Also...what exactly is the best resolution and refresh rate to use for the monitor in an MK machine?

- The bottom buttons (LP/LK) don't work for either player 1 or 2.

- I haven't tried wiring the sound yet.

My short term goal is to get the MAME machine running perfectly.  Then, I'd eventually like to add a JAMMA switch that goes between PC-via-JAMMA, original MK1 and MK2 (the arcade machine came with both MK1 and MK2 boards).  If I need to cut wiring harnesses to wire the bottom buttons and sound, should I start by buying a JAMMA switch now and do it all at once?

I tried hooking up the MK2 board and just plugged in the JAMMA harness, nothing else.  Everything worked perfect except sound (since the sound board wasn't plugged in)...and the bottom buttons.  I assume that means one of the other wiring harnesses is for the bottom buttons?

Anyway, I figured this forum would be the best place to start.  Thanks in advance for any help you can give.

[Malenko]

the MKs require a kick harness for the bottom buttons (and for run in MK3/UMK3)

[robneal81]

the MKs require a kick harness for the bottom buttons (and for run in MK3/UMK3)

Thank you.  How would I go about getting one and integrating it with the MK2 + J-Pac?

[paigeoliver]

You will need to adjust your monitor. Your arcadevga is probably outputting a video signal at the standard 60hz while Mortal Kombat ran at 53hz and the monitor was no doubt adjusted with the Mortal Kombat board running.

I have found you pretty much need to adjust every darn knob on the monitor when moving from running a MK or newer Midway board to anything else.

[robneal81]

I was able to get the screen resolution looking good enough and I wired the sound, which works fine.  The only thing left is getting the bottom buttons (buttons 4 & 5 for each player) working.  Can I wire that directly into the J-Pac, or do I need an IPAC for that?

[paigeoliver]

I was able to get the screen resolution looking good enough and I wired the sound, which works fine.  The only thing left is getting the bottom buttons (buttons 4 & 5 for each player) working.  Can I wire that directly into the J-Pac, or do I need an IPAC for that?

They can be wired directly into the extra switches terminal on the Jpac.

[robneal81]

They can be wired directly into the extra switches terminal on the Jpac.

Thanks for the reply.  I'll order the extra MK wiring harnesses and give it a shot when they arrive. 

Is there a specific terminal each should plug into?

[Malenko]

LP = 4  LK = 5

[robneal81]

LP = 4  LK = 5

I'm really sorry if this is a stupid question, but do you mean the terminals labeled:

Player 1 LP = 2SW4
Player 1 LK = 2SW5
Player 2 LP = 2SW6
Player 2 LK = 2SW7
2SW8 = nothing

[Malenko]

nope.

player 1 LP = 1SW4
player 1 LK = 1SW5

player 2 LP = 2SW4
player 2 LK = 2SW4

the 1 or 2 refers to which player, and the SW means switch, and the number is the button number.

[Endprodukt]

Why oh why do you do this to a working machine...

[paigeoliver]

Why oh why do you do this to a working machine...

J-pac and arcadeVGA is totally non-destructive. No different than if he put a different jamma board in the cabinet.

[Endprodukt]

I know. I wouldn't ever convert a working dedicated machine. Period. Usually people start selling the pcb or hacking the cp for more buttons.

[robneal81]

nope.

player 1 LP = 1SW4
player 1 LK = 1SW5

player 2 LP = 2SW4
player 2 LK = 2SW4

the 1 or 2 refers to which player, and the SW means switch, and the number is the button number.

Thank you, I appreciate the help!

[PL1]

nope.

player 1 LP = 1SW4
player 1 LK = 1SW5

player 2 LP = 2SW4
player 2 LK = 2SW4

the 1 or 2 refers to which player, and the SW means switch, and the number is the button number.

Shouldn't that red 4 be a 5?


Scott

[robneal81]

Shouldn't that red 4 be a 5?

I assumed that's what he meant. 

[robneal81]

Why oh why do you do this to a working machine...

I know. I wouldn't ever convert a working dedicated machine. Period. Usually people start selling the pcb or hacking the cp for more buttons.

That's a valid question, but there's a very specific reason:

Mortal Kombat is my favorite arcade game.  In a perfect world, I'd have one MAME arcade and one original, untouched MK machine.  Unfortunately, I don't have the money and the space for both, so I had two choices:

- Build a MAME machine and just play the ROM of MK.

- Use an MK machine and a JAMMA switch to have both.

I've been messing around with emulators since the first version of NESticle was released in the 90's and no matter what, I can guarantee that emulation is never 100% accurate.  Some are 99.999%, but you'll always notice the difference with your favorite games...ESPECIALLY games like MK that run at a slightly different resolution and refresh rate. 

In the end, I decided that I'd rather have an MK machine that played 1 & 2 flawlessly and hook up a MAME machine as well.  I realize that some games will have choppy scrolling since the resolution and refresh rate are different, but I'm still going to use MK more than any of the rest, so that's the one that matters to me.

The only issue I'm having now is what to do with my MK2 PCB?  I can install MK1, the 2-1 JAMMA switch and install the J-Pac in the second JAMMA slot, with minimal effort.  I already ordered the extra wiring harnesses and splitters so that I wouldn't have to alter the MK machine at all:  No cutting of any wires!!  This way, someday I can put it back to just a stock MK machine.

So, what should I do with MK2?  Do I get a 4-1 (or 6-1) JAMMA switch and add MK2 as well?  If so, would I need to add a second power supply?  Cut any wires?  Alter the arcade machine? 

I'd really appreciate you guys advice.  Thanks in advance.

[Endprodukt]

Adding a second power supply that's always on is safer, as switching could damage both, your screen and the pcb.

Yes mk has a Special resolution. Using groovymame with crt emu driver and an ati card (hd 4350) works really well. I'm using that setup on my beatup mk machine that came without a monitor or pcb,  so no bad feelings for me. It plays, as you said, like the original for 99,9%.

My problem with this subject is just because I'm from Germany and those machines are really rare and expensive over here, so please excuse my bad feelings when someone is hacking a great working cabinet.

[Malenko]

Shouldn't that red 4 be a 5?

I assumed that's what he meant.

yeap, thats what I meant. 

As for keeping your MK "pure" you can always cut a new CP piece and remove the factory one, and put it back to "unconvert"  I bought my MKII as an UMK3 conversion, so I have the run button drilled into my MKII CP    I dont have a jamma switcher, but I do cycle the boards, MK1, MKII, UMK3, WWF Wrestlemania, and NBA Jam TE

[robneal81]

Adding a second power supply that's always on is safer, as switching could damage both, your screen and the pcb.

If I use both MK1 and MK2 boards, I'll definitely get another power supply.  If I just use MK1 and the J-Pac, would I really need a second PSU?  The PC has it's own power supply and the J-Pac barely draws any power.

Yes mk has a Special resolution. Using groovymame with crt emu driver and an ati card (hd 4350) works really well. I'm using that setup on my beatup mk machine that came without a monitor or pcb,  so no bad feelings for me. It plays, as you said, like the original for 99,9%.

I'm using an ArcadeVGA video card.  Will Groovymame allow me to tweak resolutions so "normal" games will look good on the MK monitor's weird resolution and refresh rate?  Sorry if that's a stupid question, but I've never used Groovymame before.

My problem with this subject is just because I'm from Germany and those machines are really rare and expensive over here, so please excuse my bad feelings when someone is hacking a great working cabinet.

I agree 100%...which is why I'm trying my best to not permanently modify anything inside of it

[paigeoliver]

Your Mortal Kombat monitor does not have a weird resolution. It is a standard arcade monitor (which can accept a bit of a range of input frequencies), it is the Mortal Kombat gameboard that outputs the video at a slightly off frequency. There are multiple ways to deal with that in mame.

[robneal81]

Your Mortal Kombat monitor does not have a weird resolution. It is a standard arcade monitor (which can accept a bit of a range of input frequencies), it is the Mortal Kombat gameboard that outputs the video at a slightly off frequency. There are multiple ways to deal with that in mame.

Is there a way to set MAME to simply change the PC's resolution to whatever the native of the game is?  Theoretically, wouldn't that make every game look like the original?

[paigeoliver]

Your Mortal Kombat monitor does not have a weird resolution. It is a standard arcade monitor (which can accept a bit of a range of input frequencies), it is the Mortal Kombat gameboard that outputs the video at a slightly off frequency. There are multiple ways to deal with that in mame.

Is there a way to set MAME to simply change the PC's resolution to whatever the native of the game is?  Theoretically, wouldn't that make every game look like the original?

The frequency thing is more like a frames per second thing than a "resolution" thing. With Mortal Kombat running at 53 frames per second (thus feeding the video at that rate) and almost everything else running at 60. The monitor can handle either, but usually not without tweaking the adjustment knobs a bit. If you aren't an absolute MK purist you can just Vsync it to run at 60hz and it will run just a teeny bit fast.

[robneal81]

Well, that's the thing:  At the moment, nothing looks perfect via MAME, only the original MK PCB's.  The best example is in MK1, after choosing a fighter:  When you see the screen that scrolls through the opponents, its choppy via MAME and perfectly smooth via the original PCB.

I was hoping to use ArcadePerfect to tweak the PC's refresh rate to match MK's perfectly, but there seems to be Windows 7-related issues and it keeps crashing.  I could always switch to XP, but before I do, I'd like to make sure there isn't an easy way to do this.

How would you suggest setting my PC's resolution and refresh rate to match MK's perfectly?

[paigeoliver]

I have no suggestions on how to do that.

You really need to adjust your monitor to what your computer is putting out like I suggested way back at the beginning at not try to adjust your computer to what your monitor was adjusted for.

The Mortal Kombat games don't play nice with other games on Jamma switchers.

[Malenko]

I have no suggestions on how to do that.

You really need to adjust your monitor to what your computer is putting out like I suggested way back at the beginning at not try to adjust your computer to what your monitor was adjusted for.

The Mortal Kombat games don't play nice with other games on Jamma switchers.

What he said^ And the MK thing is true , except some other Midway games (like the ones I listed in my other reply)

[paigeoliver]

If you REALLY NEED to do this then you need a remote board for your monitor mounted in the front of your cabinet so you can readjust the monitor when you flip between 53 hz Mortal Kombat and 60 hz everything else.

If this were me doing it I could do some mods to the monitor chassis so you could flip a switch and go between being adjusted for 60 hz and being adjusted for 53 hz but that is pretty advanced and not at all the sort of thing anyone is going to be able to talk you through on a message board.

[Endprodukt]

Well, that's the thing:  At the moment, nothing looks perfect via MAME, only the original MK PCB's.  The best example is in MK1, after choosing a fighter:  When you see the screen that scrolls through the opponents, its choppy via MAME and perfectly smooth via the original PCB.

I was hoping to use ArcadePerfect to tweak the PC's refresh rate to match MK's perfectly, but there seems to be Windows 7-related issues and it keeps crashing.  I could always switch to XP, but before I do, I'd like to make sure there isn't an easy way to do this.

How would you suggest setting my PC's resolution and refresh rate to match MK's perfectly?

The screen is not having any tearing effects in groovy mame. You got to be a pro player and even they would have problems finding a difference to the pcb on my cab.

You gotta find the sweet spot for h and v freq with gm.  After that you just need to adjust the vertical size for games as this can't be done via software. I have the pot for it on the side of my custom cp for easy and quick adjustments.

[robneal81]

Thanks.  I'll start with GroovyMame and go from there.