New here...looking for advice and guidance

[spiderpig]

So I was born in 1975 and moved to the USA in 1982.  I remember when Malls still had arcades and have spent many a quarters on many machines.  I have a place in my heart for arcade machines and actually had my 37th birthday at this place:

http://www.tntamusements.com
(it was amazing...highly recommend it)

In my spare time I love to fly flight simulator with the more realistic ones the better.  In the past couple years I've actually built several home cockpit for my flight simulators and the companies I order supplies from (USB controller) caters to arcade games (groovy game gear).  So after I recently found out a mame I figured I'd like to build my own cabinet.

Here's a thread about my latest cockpit...it's designed for multiple aircraft.
http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=107533&page=3

So off the top of my head I'd like to build full size upright cabinet.  I"m not amazing with wood working, but I can figure things out.  So here's what I have thoughts so far that I would like to see if any of you have experience with:

1)  I currently have a 21" Imac that I'm not using that I can use for the machine and display.  It's either that or use a mac mini and get a LCD display. As anyone had any experience with either one of those?
2)  Looking at the Mame games and controls I'm torn between what kind of control setup I should use.  I like a lot of classic games that only need a couple buttons, but one of my favorite games is Karate Champ - which uses two joysticks for each player.  So do I design a panel with four joysticks and lots of buttons, or design two panels that can easily swapped as needed.  I'm leaning towards the later since later on I could add other panels (like for driving games).
3)  Software wise I'm currently using MAME OS X.  But ideally I'd like it setup up so I turn the unit on and it boots into an OS and fires up the mame software.  I want to be able to control it with the control panel and not need any keyboard or mouse input.  Since I'm using intel based macs, I can always load Windows 7 on them if software is better that route...although I would prefer to stick to Mac OS X if possible.

Looking forward to doing the build.  Thanks in advance guys.

[DrumAnBass]

I am a hard core mac guy, but for arcade machines, Windows is better. The reason is the software. There are very few decent front ends for OSX, and the ones that exist are very limited in features compared to their Windows counterparts. MaLa is excellent, easy to configure, and has tons of extra features. The best option for OSX seems to be AdvanceMenu, but I don't think it looks very slick.

I would suggest setting up your iMac to boot into windows with bootcamp, or do what I did, and build a cheap PC from parts or pick up a refurb PC from eBay or http://geeks.com and hit a garagesale or 2 for a 20" 4x3 CRT monitor.

You can achieve what you want to do using an OSX front end for MAME, but it just won't look as nice as what can be easily accomplished in Windows.

See: http://www.koenigs.dk/mame/eng/mamefrontends.htm

[keilmillerjr]

If you want to use mac os, QMC2 is the way to go. New releases include an arcade front end with similar functionality to most front ends (except hyper spin), in addition to its awesome rom manager. You could possibly use Zephyros for your scripting needs. I haven't used it yet, but I'm already thinking about remaking my little helper app FrontEndHelper using Zephyros or something similar for mac os x.

http://qmc2.arcadehits.net/wordpress/
https://github.com/sdegutis/zephyros

[shponglefan]

2)  Looking at the Mame games and controls I'm torn between what kind of control setup I should use.  I like a lot of classic games that only need a couple buttons, but one of my favorite games is Karate Champ - which uses two joysticks for each player.  So do I design a panel with four joysticks and lots of buttons, or design two panels that can easily swapped as needed.  I'm leaning towards the later since later on I could add other panels (like for driving games).

I'd go for swappable panels.    Like you say, you can later add other panels to accomodate different control schemes.  And designing swappable panels is not terribly difficult, just make sure you have a place to store them where they can't get damaged.

[brihyn]

Ahh, a man after my own heart. Been flying MSFS since 5.0 and have always dreamed of building a full cockpit. Best I've done is to hook up multiple monitors in FS98 (can't remember the name of that software, but I know it required IPX/SPX to communicate). Finally bought a house, had everything setup and ready to build in the garage, and then had the curse of meeting a woman...funny how they can be more fun than a flight sim cockpit (at least part of the time...I kid, I kid).
Anyway, welcome. I'm fairly new here myself, but it's a great place to learn.

[nick3092]

2)  Looking at the Mame games and controls I'm torn between what kind of control setup I should use.  I like a lot of classic games that only need a couple buttons, but one of my favorite games is Karate Champ - which uses two joysticks for each player.  So do I design a panel with four joysticks and lots of buttons, or design two panels that can easily swapped as needed.  I'm leaning towards the later since later on I could add other panels (like for driving games).

I'd go for swappable panels.    Like you say, you can later add other panels to accomodate different control schemes.  And designing swappable panels is not terribly difficult, just make sure you have a place to store them where they can't get damaged.

+1 for swappable panels.  It allows you to be able to play games with authentic controls/button layouts, and not have a giant franken panel.  I personally like the classic look of the narrow cabs I recall from the 80's, and swappable panels allowed me to keep it narrow.

Another advantage is you can get your cab up and running with basic controls right away for the majority of games, and add new specialty controls later on when the budget allows for the smaller number of games that require special controls.  There are lots of good examples to look at.  I personally went with Doc's method (link below), but instead of precisely drilled dowel pins, I went with more forgiving industrial strength velcro.  Still holds great, and no worries about perfectly aligning the dowels/holes.  But I've seen other neat ideas posted here too.  I just found that method first and went with it.

http://www.beersmith.com/mame/controls.htm

[DrumAnBass]

WahCade looks like a pretty viable front end for OSX: http://www.anti-particle.com/wahcade.shtml

Hadn't seen it before, glad there are more options for OSX out there than when I originally got into the hobby!

[spiderpig]

Thanks for all the suggestion guys.

I had a spare GP-Wiz40 and a HAPP joystick and two buttons I had used on a simulator build before that I put together to test things out.  So on the mac side using Mame OS X the app would crash as soon as I made any joystick movement.  Did a search online and it's consistent with that combination - so I'll test out the software you guys mentioned.

I have no issues putting windows 7 on the Imac (it actually already has it) and using that.  I"m actually testing MAMEUIFX on my windows7 machine and enjoying it quite nicely.

I did order some more joysticks and buttons from groovygamegear today and decided to build a panel with everything I need for now.  I figure I can play most of my games without issue.  When I start building a full vertical cabinet I'll make the control panels smaller and swappable.  Here's the current layout I have planned:


So three joystick on each side. This means I can play normal games (like Double Dragon) and also play Karate Champ which requires two joysticks.  I made it so playing Karate CHamp my hands shouldn't hit the first joystick.  We'll see how this lives in practice.

The CR1 and CR2 I'll use for credit or other functions.

Btw,  Is there a way to get an email reply when someone replies to a post?  I know other forums have it, but can't seem to find it on this forum.

[shponglefan]

That... looks extremely problematic.  Three immediate issues I can see are:

1) The two karate champ joysticks are going to be difficult to use having to reach over the other joystick & buttons.  People tend to lay their hands/arms on CPs for support, but you won't be able to in this case.  It will likely be uncomfortable to play.

2) Why are the player 2 joystick and buttons backwards?

3) The button layout is odd.  Ideally you want the 1st and 2nd row inline or very slightly skewed in the other direction.  The way you have it now is very non standard and will likely be challenging to use.

[yotsuya]

I agree with Shponglefan. It appears you're going for symmetry there, and you don't need to. Fix player two to look like player one.

[PL1]

Yotsuya is right that Shponglefan is right.
[/Blazing Saddles town hall mode]

Also Player1 and Player2 will bumping elbows all the time with the controls that close to each other.

Slagcoin layouts and cardboard/hardboard test panels are your friends in sorting out the layout that is best for you.

Also it helps if you do a mockup that uses actual dimensions and allows room for wiring and edge supports under the panel.


Scott

[JDFan]

I'd have to agree with the others -- no need for 3 joysticks per side just arrange them so that you have 2 joysticks per side and place the buttons inside the area between the 2 joys -- What is the measurements of your CP ? Here is a 2 joystick 6 button layout I used for my 1 player bartop that could be modified to fit 2 players depending on the width of your CP -- (my bartop CP is 16 inches wide and the joystick to joystick center dimensions are 8 1\2 inches which is a fairly comfortable distance for games like Robotron, Smash TV etc. that use 2 joysticks and leaves room for the 6 button layout between the sticks.

[spiderpig]

That... looks extremely problematic.  Three immediate issues I can see are:

1) The two karate champ joysticks are going to be difficult to use having to reach over the other joystick & buttons.  People tend to lay their hands/arms on CPs for support, but you won't be able to in this case.  It will likely be uncomfortable to play.

2) Why are the player 2 joystick and buttons backwards?

3) The button layout is odd.  Ideally you want the 1st and 2nd row inline or very slightly skewed in the other direction.  The way you have it now is very non standard and will likely be challenging to use.

1)  That is a good point.  This is only a rough draft at this point so I think I'll remove the top four joysticks and move them to a second panel.

2)  That was actually intentional to make it look nicer...but I guess I could go back to good old fashion method.

3)  Will look for a more traditional layout and modify the design.  Will post when I have an update.

[spiderpig]

New panel design:

[JDFan]

Here's an example of a 2 Player 2 Joystick 6 button layout for a 20 inch wide Panel

[PL1]

Looking much better.

Several other possible considerations:

1. Spacing between buttons -- Slagcoin + test panel FTW

2. Do you want dedicated exit and/or pause admin buttons?

3. Consider increasing the distance between the P1 + P2 Start buttons to reduce the odds of accidently hitting both at the same time. (commonly used for exit)


Scott

[spiderpig]

1. Spacing between buttons -- Slagcoin + test panel FTW

Scott

Scott - not sure what that means.

I'll add the pause and exit button.  Possibly just double up the buttons were the credits are. 

[PL1]

1. Spacing between buttons -- Slagcoin + test panel FTW

Scott - not sure what that means.

I linked to Slagcoin's layouts in my earlier post.

The spacing between the player buttons in your diagram might be uncomfortable.

Making a test panel can help you decide what layout you prefer.

FTW = "for the win"


Scott

[keilmillerjr]

Thanks for all the suggestion guys.

I had a spare GP-Wiz40 and a HAPP joystick and two buttons I had used on a simulator build before that I put together to test things out.  So on the mac side using Mame OS X the app would crash as soon as I made any joystick movement.  Did a search online and it's consistent with that combination - so I'll test out the software you guys mentioned.

Oh, no. Mame OS X is a front end and port of mame for mac os x. Not the same as mame. Last development on it was in 2009.

You should actually use mame. Here is a link to a compiled version others have made for mac and ubuntu. Don't get thrown off by the word SDL. Mame uses the sdl library. (http://sdlmame.wallyweek.org/faq/#q9)

http://sdlmame.lngn.net
http://sdlmame.wallyweek.org

[keilmillerjr]

WahCade looks like a pretty viable front end for OSX: http://www.anti-particle.com/wahcade.shtml

Hadn't seen it before, glad there are more options for OSX out there than when I originally got into the hobby!

Mahcade is the replacement for wahcade. It's actually for linux. However, I do not doubt that you could get it running on os x with a little bit of effort. They are both unix. A lot of times, it is just knowing how to install dependancies and tinkering. X11 is a good to run linux apps too. I used to use that for open office before apple came out with the more lightweight and pleasant iWork suite.

http://www.mameau.com/mahcade/

[spiderpig]

1. Spacing between buttons -- Slagcoin + test panel FTW

Scott - not sure what that means.

I linked to Slagcoin's layouts in my earlier post.

The spacing between the player buttons in your diagram might be uncomfortable.

Making a test panel can help you decide what layout you prefer.

FTW = "for the win"


Scott

So moved the buttons based on the slagcoin website to be 1.5 inches from the center of each other.  I staggered them as shown and I think I got the joystick out far enough.  Also added two pause buttons next to player 1 and 2 buttons and moved credit to left and exit to right.

[keilmillerjr]

I can definitely get rid of some of those admin buttons for you. Holding the player buttons could be coin buttons. Holding pause could be exit. Or pressing both pause buttons could be exit. If you want two pause buttons, move them to the outer edges? Or move the player buttons to the edges and have one pause in the center? Or have player buttons in the center with one pause button between them?

Check out my app in my sig for windows. I could probably use zephyros like I mentioned before and duplicate some of the same features for you (or you could do it yourself if you are a programmer ).

[GeoMan]

I am using a different approach since i am not building a cabinet and i want to use my control panel(s) with both my Mac and PC so they must be portable:

I am building smaller, separate control panels. Each of these panels can be used alone, but also can be placed next to another panel, so i can use controls from both panels at the same time if needed.

My first one is ready:



...for classic games and games requiring two joysticks or a 4-way joystick (the right one is top switchable 4-8 way).

The second, third and fourth panels will use the same sized box but the main controls will be "spinner + flightstick", "trackball + buttons" and "U360 analog + buttons".

The best version of mame to use with OSX is this: http://sdlmame.lngn.net/

(You will need a frontend like M+GUI)

[PL1]

Are you sure about having 2 pause buttons?

You might consider changing one of them back to P2 Coin for games like TMNT, Gauntlet, Simpsons, etc. that assign credits based on coin slot.

Most people put the Coin and Start buttons on the outside and the Pause and Exit buttons in the middle.

This is the panel from my modular/portable project.
You won't need the mouse buttons, Menu, or Enter for a regular cab.




Scott

[spiderpig]

I can definitely get rid of some of those admin buttons for you. Holding the player buttons could be coin buttons. Holding pause could be exit. Or pressing both pause buttons could be exit. If you want two pause buttons, move them to the outer edges? Or move the player buttons to the edges and have one pause in the center? Or have player buttons in the center with one pause button between them?

Check out my app in my sig for windows. I could probably use zephyros like I mentioned before and duplicate some of the same features for you (or you could do it yourself if you are a programmer ).

Well more buttons isn't really a problem since the GP-Wiz42 can do 32 buttons plus two joysticks.  So right now I'm no where near 32.  Buttons aren't that expensive either so I'm good for more.

I am a programmer as well so your app is interesting.  There is a great app for the mac I use called controllermate that lets you nicely configure any usb device to do what you want it to do. 

[spiderpig]

Are you sure about having 2 pause buttons?

You might consider changing one of them back to P2 Coin for games like TMNT, Gauntlet, Simpsons, etc. that assign credits based on coin slot.

Most people put the Coin and Start buttons on the outside and the Pause and Exit buttons in the middle.

This is the panel from my modular/portable project.
You won't need the mouse buttons, Menu, or Enter for a regular cab.




Scott

Scott,

I guess I was going with more ergonomics.  That way if two players are playing each can reach the pause button easily to pause.  But I could re-design it and see how it looks.

I'm leaving on vacation tomorrow for two weeks.  So plenty of time to work on the design.  I'm hoping all the buttons, joysticks, and usb controller will be here when I come back so I can start working on this.  I figure the first panel I'll just make a wooden box for.

[PL1]

I figure the first panel I'll just make a wooden box for.

You can save some effort by using a cardboard box for the base.

That will also help you avoid the trap of making the panel playable which can slow or stop progress -- yeah, that's happened to lots of us. 


Scott

[spiderpig]

Currently on vacation travelling down to Florida with the family to do disney.  Have had tons of time to think about the cabinet build along the way.  In watching youtube videos and reading websites, it seems that people start with the two side panels and work their way in.  As an engineer this seems a little odd to me.  So I'm working on a wooden frame design for the inside of the arcade cabinet to sorround later on the outside.

I sketched up some basic drawing of the size with heights (figuring 6 feet tall for the whole cabinet).  Then I made a wood frame picture which will use 2X6 pieces of wood.  Once the sides are finalized I'm going to sketch out where the two feet beams will be used to connect both sides.  I want to build a very strong foundation so the cabinet doesn't wobble.

I"m also thinking since the build will be heavy to use a strong wooden base with wheel coasters on it to make it easy to move around.

[spiderpig]

So started building the control panel so I can start testing and playing some games.  Came out ok for now.  Still need to paint the box and create and overlay for it.  I have it tapped up now because I'm looking to get hinges and magnets to keep the lid closed.  Want to make sure I can open it for fixing things if needed.