First machine, need opinions on MAME PC

[Arc Kalocal]

So I'm building my first machine, and I am going to be building a new PC to run MAME in it. I would like the PC to be able to run anything, new or old. I'm not sure what all I would need and am looking for some input from the experts!

Here's what I've got so far:
400W PSU
4GB DDR3 RAM
500GB HDD
Core i3-3220
Asus P8B75-M/CSM Mobo
Video card

I'm looking to use a Wells Gardner LCD monitor and I'm not sure what the best card to use would be. I've heard of the Arcade VGA but I'm not sure if I'd need it on the LCD monitor or if I would need more than that to run newer games as well.

Also I was planning on not using a case for the computer at all and just mounting it inside the cabinet for better airflow. Good idea or no?

[shponglefan]

Any modern PC will be able to run the vast, vast majority of MAME games at full speed.  The exceptions are the extremely processor intensive games like NFL Blitz, Gauntlet Legends, etc.

Insofar as mounting PC components without a case, there is nothing wrong with that.  Just make things are secured properly so they can't get jostled around.

[paigeoliver]

There is no need to decase your PC. Real arcade games that run on PC hardware generally have a whole case inside the cabinet.

If you are building on any sort of budget then the computer is the last place to spend money. A $1000 gaming rig will only run about 3 percent more titles in mame than $50 used pentium 4 will. Your video card is only important if you want to run a 3D frontend or want to use some of the funny graphical options in mame, for straight emulation it basically isn't used at all.

And if Happ still has any of those TriSync 27" monitors that use picture tubes then buy one of those (they still had a few last I checked). They look so much better with older titles than the Happ lcd monitors do.

[Arc Kalocal]

This rig, minus the video card should only run me about 200$. I'm building it from scratch so the case would actually be an added cost. I'm mostly interested in games like Gauntlet Legends, TMNT, D&D, and MVC2. So by the sound of it I may actually want a real video card or was that comment in regards to the CPU? I'll check out the trisync monitor but I'm not much for preservation as much as I am a  Clean crisp look. What sort of video card should I be looking for if I choose an LCD or a CRT? And how realistic is it to run newer games like SF4 or tekken tag 2?

[paigeoliver]

Gauntlet Legends is the only problem game you mentioned. It doesn't really run on common hardware at full speed.

Scratchbuilding a computer for mame is a great way to flush money down the toilet. My 40 game arcade collection has 39 games and a single mame cabinet, about a $2500 build at that. I just replaced the motherboard battery in it a few weeks ago, because the PC running it is 8 years old. It couldn't run gauntlet legends 8 years ago, it can't run it today. Mame vs. hardware just isn't there for 3D titles yet. You can toss tons of processor power and money at it and only a few more games become playable. Spend your money on your screen and controls and wait for the hardware to catch up to the 3d games because it hasn't yet (and they aren't very good to tell the truth, not compared to native PC apps you can run on the same system.)

[Arc Kalocal]

Noted, but at the moment scratch build is my only option, and I actually have access to some really good deals on most of the parts. If I scratch out the processor and mobo I chose what do you think my best option would be today? I'm sure the i3 is overkill but I wanted to play it safe at first. I can get an ivy bridge celeron processor pretty cheap if you guys think that would cut it.

As far as the cabinet goes I'm retrofitting one I won at an auction so I don't think I'll need yo put in much money to it. It has a working CRT monitor but I had my heart set on an LCD. Maybe I'll change my mind. I'm not sure if the speakers it have will be compatible I haven't looked there yet. The control panel will be ripped out and replaced with a 4 player setup with 4/6 buttons each. Im going with the basic competition buttons and joysticks from Happ unless I'm convinced otherwise.

So at the moment I'm looking at:
$200 cabinet
$200 PC
$150 control panel
$200-300 monitor? Maybe.

[Arc Kalocal]

One other thing, how necessary is a trackball for mame? They're expensive and there aren't really any games I'm interested in at the moment that use them. Can I use the joystick and buttons to navigate the name front end or would I be stuck with a keyboard drawer as my only other option?

[PL1]

The trackball isn't necessary for navigating your front end.

You may want to take a look at the Sparkfun trackball if your main concern is budget.


Scott

[Cynicaster]

Track balls are pretty spendy pieces of kit (relatively speaking), but if I had to choose between spending a hundy on a track ball or a PC that plays 7 more games than my 8 year-old PC does, I'd take the track ball any day of the week. 

I love playing Missile Command, Marble Madness, Centipede, Millipede, and Wacko, but even if I didn't like those track ball games, I'd still get my money's worth from playing "party games" like Golden Tee, bowling, and Shuffle Shot when non-gamer friends are over. 

[BadMouth]

I'm mostly interested in games like Gauntlet Legends, TMNT, D&D, and MVC2. And how realistic is it to run newer games like SF4 or tekken tag 2?

Maybe you should play around with MAME on your current PC first so your expectations are reasonable.
A $200 PC isn't going to run Gauntlet Legends.  You need to get up near 4Ghz to run it.

MVC2 doesn't work in MAME regardless of how fast a processor you have.
It is playable on Demul and Makaron emulators, but those require a good video card.

SF4 arcade ran on the Taito Type X platform which was just a standard PC with embedded windows xp. 
There is a version out there that is hacked to run on any PC, but it is only one player.
Just buy the PC game, it's cheap now and will be a much better experience.

I'm not aware of a way to play Tekken Tag Tournament 2 short of installing a PS3 in your cab.

I've replied to other threads like this and given an idea of what to expect from various hardware.
If you search here in the main forum, you'll find more info on horsepower requirements.

Keep in mind that most people use MAME to play games from the early 80's up through the 2D fighters of the 90's like Mortal Kombat.
So when you ask what PC specs you need, the answers are going to lean toward that, not the beast it requires to play newer 3D games.

[Arc Kalocal]

I'm mostly interested in games like Gauntlet Legends, TMNT, D&D, and MVC2. And how realistic is it to run newer games like SF4 or tekken tag 2?

Maybe you should play around with MAME on your current PC first so your expectations are reasonable.
A $200 PC isn't going to run Gauntlet Legends.  You need to get up near 4Ghz to run it.

MVC2 doesn't work in MAME regardless of how fast a processor you have.
It is playable on Demul and Makaron emulators, but those require a good video card.

SF4 arcade ran on the Taito Type X platform which was just a standard PC with embedded windows xp. 
There is a version out there that is hacked to run on any PC, but it is only one player.
Just buy the PC game, it's cheap now and will be a much better experience.

I'm not aware of a way to play Tekken Tag Tournament 2 short of installing a PS3 in your cab.

I've replied to other threads like this and given an idea of what to expect from various hardware.
If you search here in the main forum, you'll find more info on horsepower requirements.

Keep in mind that most people use MAME to play games from the early 80's up through the 2D fighters of the 90's like Mortal Kombat.
So when you ask what PC specs you need, the answers are going to lean toward that, not the beast it requires to play newer 3D games.

My soul is a pretty crushed to hear that I won't be able to play MVC2 through MAME. That's the #1 thing I want from this project! I will certainly look into those two emulators you mentioned and am forever grateful for your help.

My current PC is a 3000$ behemoth so I my expectations between this one and the one I plan on building for the machine will be vastly different! Good suggestion though, I suppose I'll still try it out. I guess I'll definitely have my answer if this thing can't do it though!

[shponglefan]

One advantage of buying a decent modern PC is you expand your options beyond just MAME.  There are a lot of games outside of MAME either other emulators or straight PC games that can run decently in an arcade cab.  You don't have to spend top of the line, though.   I'm still running an older Intel E8400 with a Radeon 4850 card and it runs SF IV perfectly.

Also, I disagree with paigeoliver's $50 P4 route.  Unless you have an existing PC you know functions properly, buying a legacy system can invite more headaches dealing w/ older h/w which can eat up any perceived cost savings.  The marginal upfront cost of an economical modern PC is a better choice, imho.

[Arc Kalocal]

One advantage of buying a decent modern PC is you expand your options beyond just MAME.  There are a lot of games outside of MAME either other emulators or straight PC games that can run decently in an arcade cab.  You don't have to spend top of the line, though.   I'm still running an older Intel E8400 with a Radeon 4850 card and it runs SF IV perfectly.

Also, I disagree with paigeoliver's $50 P4 route.  Unless you have an existing PC you know functions properly, buying a legacy system can invite more headaches dealing w/ older h/w which can eat up any perceived cost savings.  The marginal upfront cost of an economical modern PC is a better choice, imho.

I feel like this is going to be the route I'm going to have to take. My original goal was to build an all inclusive machine that would just have everything crammed in to the front end but I think what I'm going to have to do now is saddle up with a multitude of emulators in order to get everything I was hoping for out of this guy. Thank you all for the help you've given. Now I need to settle on a good video card since it looks like this project is moving in to the range of more console emulation.

Do you think I will have any problems configuring any old emulator to arcade buttons? I'm not totally familiar with the I-PAC yet and am not sure if it just mimics a keyboard press or what.

[PL1]

Do you think I will have any problems configuring any old emulator to arcade buttons? I'm not totally familiar with the I-PAC yet and am not sure if it just mimics a keyboard press or what.

Some emulators are easier to configure than others -- MAME is one of the easiest.

Pick out the software you intend to use. (emulators, games, and front end)

As you set it up for play-testing, you can determine what your build needs.

The IPac acts like a keyboard -- default keycode list here.


Scott

[gildahl]

Not a recommendation, but a point of comparison.  I use some relatively old hardware.

•Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 (2.4Ghz overclocked to 3.2Ghz).
•Asus Republic of Gamers, Maximus Formula motherboard (Intel X38)
•8GB DDR2 RAM
•NVidia GTX 460 GPU

This runs even some of the tougher titles very well well.  NFL Blitz, Gauntlet Legends & DL, Radiant Silvergun, Star Wars Trilogy (on Supermodel), etc.

Two things to note. 

1. For more modern titles a 64 bit OS definitely makes a difference (I use Windows8).
2. For the Gauntlet titles, something happened between MAME 0.145 and 0.146.  As of 0.146 they run perfectly smooth now.  Prior versions were too choppy to be playable.

For more, see here, http://dahlstrom.sytes.net/techblog/?p=611

[BobA]

2. For the Gauntlet titles, something happened between MAME 0.145 and 0.146.  As of 0.146 they run perfectly smooth now.  Prior versions were too choppy to be playable.

This is important info.  I have never run gauntlet legends without sound stuttering.   Upgraded to mame .149 and it runs well now.   Using an I3 @ 3 Ghz and windows 7 64bit.

[DGP]

Not trying to break any rules here but if I can help you out and see this go to a good home...

I have a 3.4 ghz Pentium D dual / Win7-64 already set-up with Maximus Arcade and multiple emus that I'll sell you for right around what you are looking to spend.

It has... it runs like a champ. ( Ooops, sorry!!! )

I can provide feedback and pics of the unit (maybe even a short video of it in action). If you click the little round icon under my username (My Toys) you can see a pic of it running in the cab.

Not sure if this direct link will work... http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv81/DGP_bucket/ArcadeCab1_zps1400c373.jpg?627

I just updated my arcade cab to a 4 ghz quad / Radeon 7850 combo and it runs everything I throw at it so no need for the old pc. 
 

Jason

[shponglefan]

 

[Arc Kalocal]

So now the next step for me would be to compile a list of all the games I plan on including. At first glance it looks like I'm going to pick up a GTX 650 so I can run a number of console emulators as well. Now I should probably look in to including 8 buttons per player. Not sure if I will need the for P3/4.

[paigeoliver]

So now the next step for me would be to compile a list of all the games I plan on including. At first glance it looks like I'm going to pick up a GTX 650 so I can run a number of console emulators as well. Now I should probably look in to including 8 buttons per player. Not sure if I will need the for P3/4.

From the Super Nes and newer consoles you will continually bump into the problem that many of the games don't play well on arcade controls. The Snes introduced shoulder buttons that are often used in a directional fashion, that translated so poorly to arcade controls that the Nintendo Super System (arcade version of the Snes hardware), basically had snes gamepads instead of real arcade controls. Every console after that it just gets worse, analog sticks, dual analog sticks, analog shoulder buttons, dual analog shoulder buttons, analog sticks that press down to trigger another button. Eventually you get to the point where the console gamepad has dual analog press down sticks, a digital stick, 4 shoulder buttons (some analog) and then 6 more buttons on top of all that, and many games endeavor to use all of that.

[Malenko]

From the Super Nes and newer consoles you will continually bump into the problem that many of the games don't play well on arcade controls. The Snes introduced shoulder buttons that are often used in a directional fashion,

Hate to bump heads on this with you again, but more "arcadey" games on SNES work fine with arcade controls than you give credit. Tons of side scrolling beatem ups : Final Fight 2 & 3, Brawl Brothers, Rival Turf, The Power Rangers games (at least 2 I remember) , The Spiderman games, etc. You also have quite a few console only fighting games like  the ClayFighter series, TMNT Fighting game,  Battle Blaze, Ranma, ShaqFu (lol, jk that game sucks though slightly better on genesis), and Weapon Lord. To me theres a ton of side scrollers that work well with arcade controls, the Aero games, Super Adventure Island, Kirby, EWJ, and even Bubsy.

[paigeoliver]

Yes agreed there are tons that work fine. The Snes is just where the problem starts, most of those titles are still fine, it gets worse and worse with each console after the snes. Since the original poster is contemplating PC hardware required to emulate newer consoles (those well into the dual analog double shoulder button danger zone), then it is a very legitimate thing to consider. A Snes emulator will run on anything a Playstation 2 emulator will not. Just don't want the poster to drop serious cash in order to emulate newer consoles only to find that all his favorite games had ludicrous control schemes unplayable on an arcade panel.

Also, buy your PC dead last, do absolutely everything else, then buy your computers. Far too many builders have made the mistake of spending some real cash on a decent rig, only to end up taking 2 or 3 years to complete their projects.

From the Super Nes and newer consoles you will continually bump into the problem that many of the games don't play well on arcade controls. The Snes introduced shoulder buttons that are often used in a directional fashion,

Hate to bump heads on this with you again, but more "arcadey" games on SNES work fine with arcade controls than you give credit. Tons of side scrolling beatem ups : Final Fight 2 & 3, Brawl Brothers, Rival Turf, The Power Rangers games (at least 2 I remember) , The Spiderman games, etc. You also have quite a few console only fighting games like  the ClayFighter series, TMNT Fighting game,  Battle Blaze, Ranma, ShaqFu (lol, jk that game sucks though slightly better on genesis), and Weapon Lord. To me theres a ton of side scrollers that work well with arcade controls, the Aero games, Super Adventure Island, Kirby, EWJ, and even Bubsy.

[Malenko]

Also, buy your PC dead last, do absolutely everything else, then buy your computers. Far too many builders have made the mistake of spending some real cash on a decent rig, only to end up taking 2 or 3 years to complete their projects.

This I can agree with, even if it takes you 6 months between building the cab and buying the PC for it, you can get a better PC for the same cost. This doesnt apply if you're like me and just slumming together parts though