Rowe cd-100 speaker wiring - help

[john8]

I have just joined so that you might be able to help me.
I bought this jukebox brand new back in 1990. It was only for home use so it didn't come with any money mechanisms etc.
The data plate says its a cd-100 and was made in 1990.
When it was first played I was disappointed by the lack of bass, it was there but not to the level of what I expected of a jukebox.
I thought it was because the 10" woofers weren't up to it, anyway... The jukebox has rarely been used because of its poor bass performance.
Recently I tried to use it but found the rubber surrounds in the woofers needed replacing (badly rotted), I replaced the surrounds and when hooking up the wiring noticed it was different from the manual and when I looked further the mid and high range speakers also had different connections to both the manual and diagrams stuck to the jukebox [/img][/img]door.
Can anyone show me a wiring diagram of what it should be?
I'm going to try and show how my untouched wiring is, as it came from the factory, if I can work out how to do it! attachments!!!

[ami-man]

Hello John,

Welcome to the forum.

Your wiring is all to pot on J1.

The correct locations are as follows:-

Pin 1 Pink to E7 Right
Pin 2 Slate to + RT Woofer
Pin 4 Green + to LT Woofer
Pin 5 Black to E1 Left
Pin 6 Black/Red - RT Woofer
Pin 7 Black/Yellow - LT Woofer
Pin 8 Violet E7 Left

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK
 

[john8]

Thanks Alan
Your pin locations are the same as my manual.
I'll have a look to see how to change the wiring over on the J1 plug.
I hope this fixes the bass problem but why would it have been wired this way?
Keep you posted.

[john8]

Thanks again Alan
Wired it up as per your instructions, the difference in sound was amazing.
The bass was good, the mid/hi were not harsh and a ton more volume.
Just think 23 years of listening to a crippled jukebox and accepting it.
When I bought the jukebox in Hong Kong, I brought it from the States directly with no distributor to help sort out any problems, so I lived with the sound.
I so happy to have a fix and thanks again.
Boom Boom
John

[ami-man]

Hello John,

I am glad I could help, you are not the first nor will you be the last to put up with an incorrectly wired up amplifier or output package.

The Rowe Ami sound is second to none and the wiring of the amplifier or cartridge involves one side being out of phaze on some amplifiers such as the 64 watt stardard amp used on the R-74 & R-80 one side of the cartridge was wired out of phaze in the case of most of the amplifiers right up to the CD jukeboxes the output on one side ofthe amplifier is inversed. Both of the methods above give enhanced bass.

Who knows why your jukebox was wired in such a way, maybe someone at the plant was having a bad day or just happened to leave the copany that day.

Glad it is sorted.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[john8]

Not sure if I should start another topic!

Since wiring the speakers as was suggested I have been listening to some good jukebox music until...
I started the jukebox this morning to be greeted with no sound, well a faint noise at full volume.
There was no thump as the jukebox was switched on, the manual said check the fuses, all 4 fuses were blown. Thats 2 on each board.
I replaced all fuses to see what would happen, when I turned the jukebox back on I heard the thump but it was like a double thump, again no sound playing a disc and upon checking all 4 fuses were again blown. The last part of the double thump was probably the fuses going!
I think the output transistors will need replacing but what caused it?

Since the wiring change I have noticed that the volume can go very loud.
With the volume control a 1/4 way turned up it is as loud as anyone would want it.
The volume control is very sensitive.
You would expect the volume at 1/4 to be all most full volume.

And yes last night it got quite loud...
It was working all right till it was turned off.
So could it have been me having it too loud?
Has the wiring affected the amp?
Any ideas/help to get it back working again.

I'll give details of my jukebox;
model: CD-100
Ser No: 7899
Built: Jan 1990

Thanks,
John

[ami-man]

Hello John,

The wiring is now correct, but the sound levels fluctuating may have been an indication that there was an issue with the amplifier or the output package.

Were the fuses fitted the correct value (it is marked on the driver boards at the side of each fuse)?
Have a look at the large resistors on the driver boards is there any sign of overheating or cracks on the surface of the resistors.

Four all four fuses to have blown would indicate a short of some kind.

What country do you live in?

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[john8]

Alan,

I live in Queensland Australia.

The fuses removed were marked 8A the same as on the board.

I ordered 2 sets of output transistors (2N6284, 2N6287) from "cdadapter" in the States. The second set is just in case! They should arrive in a week or two.

Reading the forum I started to get cold feet, not about replacing the transistors but adjusting the bias on them after. I had no idea of how to do that.

After making a few calls I was told of this guy who repairs jukeboxes in my area, long story short he now has the amp but for a quote only.

He has the amp only and is confident that is all he needs.

He said he will go over it for dry joints and have a look at the caps.

I should know by the end of the week if he found anything.

Just to clear my head, your connections for the J1 plug. quote;

"The correct locations are as follows:-

Pin 1 Pink to E7 Right
Pin 2 Slate to + RT Woofer
Pin 4 Green + to LT Woofer
Pin 5 Black to E1 Left
Pin 6 Black/Red - RT Woofer
Pin 7 Black/Yellow - LT Woofer
Pin 8 Violet E7 Left"

On the crossover board I have (GV8951). In the above locations the pins 1 & 2 are directly connected to each other via the board and pins 7 & 8 are also connected to each other.

Hope you can make something of that!

Thanks,
John

[ami-man]

Hello John,

Who is the guy in OZ?

I only know of three people.

CD Adaptor is ok re the output transistors but there are a lot of bogus transistors on Ebay, even Ron Rich in the USA has been caught out.

Regards
Alan

[du24pont24]

I am still having problems with my CD-100 a.    replaced transistors and worked fine until shortly after I hooked up a pre amp board so I could connect a mp3 player.    I took amp back out and changed 3 of the four fuses.    (would it make a difference if I used 7.5 amp fuses)?        Replaced fuses and still low distorted sound.  So I guess my transistors are fried again?   I am so lost, what would be causing this??    I am so ready to give up!    I have been working and work on this juke and getting nowhere.  lol

Derek

[lilshawn]

your driver boards might have some blown components on them.

[Ken Layton]

You could send the amplifier to Bruce Wentworth for repair:

http://www.rowejukeboxrepair.com/

[ami-man]

Hello Derek,

When ever you are testing an amp on the bench it is best to put slightly lower rated fuses in the driver boards.
By putting 7.5 rather than the 5 anp fuses that should have been fitted as already has been mentioned yu will have blown other components on the boards, more than likely the large resistors in the bias circuit.

If you are in the USA as Ken says Bruce Wentworth is your man, but I have a feeling that you are in Australia?

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[lilshawn]

By putting 7.5 rather than the 5 anp fuses

aren't these supposed to be 8 amp? 

there is a transistor on the driver board (Q4) that often shorts causing the output transistors to blow when you power it up. it often fries a resistor or 2 along with it. (R33, R21) sometimes if you are unfortunate enough, the trace between the big resistors R14/R22 and R27/R30 where it squiggles between some other solder joints gets burned out too.

i believe what happens is the trace narrows there and because of the currents involved, causes the trace to get hot and start to lift off the board. it then sags down slightly contacts the solder area of R21 and R33 which runs very close to there...shorts out and blows everything up.  just my theory, but i have a dozen board in my pile like this, and they all have the same failure..and this is the only explanation i can come up with.

in closing, check you resistors for darkening/burning and the back side of the board for the trace issue.

[du24pont24]

Alan....I am in the USA.   How do I get in touch with him?

[Ken Layton]

Bruce Wentworth's website:

http://www.rowejukeboxrepair.com/

[ami-man]

Hello Ken,

Thanks for chipping in.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[du24pont24]

Thanks Ken, I will call him!!!!!!

Derek

[john8]

It has been awhile...

Eventually got my amp back after repair. The blown output transistors/fuses were replaced and a general check for any defective components with nothing found.
Seeing I was having problems with the crossover wiring he recommended that I put it back to its original wiring.

I did all this and tried to play a track. Initially the sound was good then it started to become intermittent all in about 30 secs fading to a very faint sound.
I went into service mode and noted error code 05-62. This was the only error.

Trying to find which part wasn't working I disconnected the audio cable from the cd player to the amp and hooked the player to an ext amp, the audio was working fine.

I then tried playing an ext cd player into the jukebox amp and all i got was a very faint sound.

Fearing the amp was blown I checked the fuses on the amp and they were ok.

The error 05-62 indicated 3 occurrences, I think I have to fix this before I get back to the amp or maybe the sound is muted when this error occurs and the amps ok.
I can't seem to reset the error.

Any clues on what to do next?

John

[lilshawn]

the mute circuit is active if there is not a track currently playing. The amp will not output any sound unless the mute circuit is disabled

this circuit is enabled/disabled by the computer. This is an orange wire with a black stripe on it. the computer grounds this line if there is nothing playing and the amp mutes. when it's time to play, the computer "lifts" the wire from the ground and leaves it open. the amp unmutes and will play.

disconnect this plug and try playing through the amp with an ipod or other mp3 player or even playing a CD. you need to inspect your mute circuit wiring. you may have it grounding out someplace.

[john8]

Thanks...

I tried the jukebox with only a very faint sound when playing the int cd player with either the mute plug in or out.

Tried ext player, NO sound with the mute plug in (int cd player not playing) and very faint sound with the plug out.

Appears mute system ok.

John
 

[lilshawn]

double check the wiring for your volume control. a loose connection can cause no sound too.

all the screws on that row should all be tight. make sure the jumper is in the correct position for the type of volume control you have.

[john8]

Double checked the volume wiring et al seems ok.

The very faint sound is the track being played in the far distance.

The sound is similar to just before the amp blew.

Can you connect pa speakers to bypass the crossover/speakers?

John

[ami-man]

Hi John,

From the point of view of the error code you have this is in relation to CDM communication failure, this means that there is an issue with the mechanism/decoder board.

The jukebox does not report on errors such as the sound. Check you connections from the decoder phono output back to the amplifier.

What happens when you pull out the mute plug?

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[dddirtman]

Hello John,

Who is the guy in OZ?

I only know of three people.

CD Adaptor is ok re the output transistors but there are a lot of bogus transistors on Ebay, even Ron Rich in the USA has been caught out.

Regards
Alan

some of the output transistors for these amps are no longer being made in this country,there coming from china and(even new)they don't work...
try to get nos components if possible

[john8]

I found how to reset the error codes.

Cleaned/checked connectors/loose wiring, all ok
I reset the error code and operated the jukebox a number of times and it now shows "no errors" Thank heavens.

Trying to fault find...

The cd player cable was disconnected at the amp end and connected to an ext PA, it played loud and clear so the cd player is ok.

Tried to play an external cd via the amp and the result was the same as the internal cd, faint audio only.
Initially the ext cd player had no sound at all however, removing the mute plug off the amp enabled the faint audio, so mute system ok and ccc!!!

During normal play back the audio from the amp can be varied with the volume ie, nothing at zero, half way just barely hear the audio and full up for the faint noise.

It appears the problem is either the repaired amp or the crossover/speaker wiring, most likely the amp.

So far the amp has been left on for hours, cycled on/off with the amp giving a little thump as it shuts down but it appears the fuses are still ok! just no amplification. Does this mean the crossover/speaker wiring is ok?

To determine which is defective, I would like to connect some ext PA speakers to the amp, bypass the output transformer/crossover/speaker.
I don't know if its possible but could the speakers be connected via the "phono plug" on the amp near the mute plug? it says; "minimum amplifier output per channel across a 3 ohm load is 19.5 volts"... or could I connect a PA amp into the "phono plug" speaker side and check out the crossover etc?

Back to the amp repair, how important is it for using the exact drivers/matched pairs, my guy could have used an alternative. Also when fitted I read they should be calibrated. I don't know if any of this was done.

I don't to take it back if I'm not sure the amp is at fault.

Help me with your ideas.

John

[ed12]

john8
hi
i would like u to look for a 6 pin plug
pin 1 =6
pin 2 = blank
pin 3 =black
pin 4 =orange
pin 5=blank
pin 6 = white/red
do u see this plug ?

ed

[john8]

any clues, I couldn't find one

only 6 pin plug I found was on the amp and that was the mute plug, wrong color wires

pin 1 = 6   I don't know what that means

John

[ed12]

erps
sorry
red

u do not have that plg ?

ed