crt_range information for Sony Trinitron 21" CRT

[Silverwind]

My arcade monitor died (boo) and so I switched to a backup Sony 21" trinitron computer CRT.  Below are the specs.

I was reading through this thread here:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,132436.0.html

What settings (crt_range) should I use for the CRT to use the correct resolutions at 120hz?  I am interested in the reduced input lag as well as trying to utilize lower resolutions.  It was fantastic getting native resolutions on the arcade monitor and I would like to replicate that as close as possible on the CRT monitor. 

Machine specs - core2duo @4ghz, ati radeon 4890 1gb, windows xp 32bit

Specifications
CRT
0.24 mm aperture grille pitch, 90-degree deflection, FD Trinitron
21 inches measured diagonally
Viewable image size
Approx. 403.8 × 302.2 mm (w/h) (16 × 12 inches)
19.8" viewing image
Resolution (H:Horizontal, V:Vertical)
Maximum: H: 2048 dots, V: 1536 lines
Recommended: H: 1600 dots, V: 1200 lines
Input signal levels
Video signal: Analog RGB: 0.700 Vp-p (positive), 75 Ω
SYNC signal: H/V separate or composite sync:
TTL 2 kΩ, Polarity free
Sync on Green: 0.3 Vp-p (negative)
Standard image area
Approx. 388 × 291 mm
(15 3
/8 × 11 1
/2 inches) or
Approx. 364 × 291 mm
(14 3
/8 × 11 1
/2 inches)
Deflection frequency*
(H:Horizontal, V:Vertical)
H: 30 to 110 kHz, V: 48 to 170 Hz
AC input voltage/current
100 to 240 V, 50 – 60 Hz, 2.0 – 1.0 A
Power Consumption
Approx. 135 W
Operating temperature
10 ºC to 40 ºC
Dimensions Approx. 497 × 502 × 485 mm (w/h/d)
 (19 5
/8 × 19 × 18 7
/8 inches)
Mass Approx. 30 kg (66 lb 2 oz)
Plug and Play DDC2B/DDC2Bi, GTF**
Supplied accessories
Power cord
Warranty card
This instruction manual
* Recommended horizontal and vertical timing condition
• Horizontal sync width duty should be more than 4.8% of total
horizontal time or 0.8 µs, whichever is larger.
• Horizontal blanking width should be more than 2.3 µsec.
• Vertical blanking width should be more than 450 µsec.
** If the input signal is Generalized Timing Formula (GTF) compliant, the
GTF feature of the monitor will automatically provide an optimal image
for the screen.

[jdubs]

Interested, too, if this thing will do 240p at 120hz.

-Jim

[Calamity]

Hi Silverwind,

In the link you posted you have all the information you need to get this running. Here are the relevant bits of your monitor specs:

(H:Horizontal, V:Vertical)
H: 30 to 110 kHz, V: 48 to 170 Hz

* Recommended horizontal and vertical timing condition
• Horizontal sync width duty should be more than 4.8% of total
horizontal time or 0.8 µs, whichever is larger.
• Horizontal blanking width should be more than 2.3 µsec.
• Vertical blanking width should be more than 450 µsec.
** If the input signal is Generalized Timing Formula (GTF) compliant, the
GTF feature of the monitor will automatically provide an optimal image
for the screen.

And here are the specs taken from the other thread, just modified the horizontal sync pulse to meet the minimum accepted by your monitor:

crt_range0 30000-70000, 100.00-160.00, 2.201, 0.800, 4.678, 0.063, 0.032, 0.633, 0, 0, 192, 320, 0, 0
crt_range1 30000-70000, 50.00-80.00, 2.201, 0.800, 4.678, 0.063, 0.032, 0.633, 0, 0, 400, 1024, 0, 0

Video modes created with these lines will be off centered horizontally, you can either use the monitor's osd to center them or edit the above lines with the right horizontal porches that produce automatically centered modes.

[Silverwind]

Hi Silverwind,

In the link you posted you have all the information you need to get this running. Here are the relevant bits of your monitor specs:

(H:Horizontal, V:Vertical)
H: 30 to 110 kHz, V: 48 to 170 Hz

* Recommended horizontal and vertical timing condition
• Horizontal sync width duty should be more than 4.8% of total
horizontal time or 0.8 µs, whichever is larger.
• Horizontal blanking width should be more than 2.3 µsec.
• Vertical blanking width should be more than 450 µsec.
** If the input signal is Generalized Timing Formula (GTF) compliant, the
GTF feature of the monitor will automatically provide an optimal image
for the screen.

And here are the specs taken from the other thread, just modified the horizontal sync pulse to meet the minimum accepted by your monitor:

crt_range0 30000-70000, 100.00-160.00, 2.201, 0.800, 4.678, 0.063, 0.032, 0.633, 0, 0, 192, 320, 0, 0
crt_range1 30000-70000, 50.00-80.00, 2.201, 0.800, 4.678, 0.063, 0.032, 0.633, 0, 0, 400, 1024, 0, 0

Video modes created with these lines will be off centered horizontally, you can either use the monitor's osd to center them or edit the above lines with the right horizontal porches that produce automatically centered modes.

Thank you for your help!  I will try these modes out tonight.

How would I go about figuring out the horizontal porch?   Could I just notice the image looks 20 pixels to the left and manually adjust it by trial and error?

[Silverwind]

I ran groovymame.exe -cc to create a new mame.ini.

Then instead of monitor = arcade_15 i set it to monitor = custom.
I added the crt-range specs from earlier in the thread
crt_range0 30000-70000, 100.00-160.00, 2.201, 0.800, 4.678, 0.063, 0.032, 0.633, 0, 0, 192, 320, 0, 0
crt_range1 30000-70000, 50.00-80.00, 2.201, 0.800, 4.678, 0.063, 0.032, 0.633, 0, 0, 400, 1024, 0, 0

Now when I run groovymame I get a quickres error:
"Quickres is unable to find a video mode that meets your specs"

What did I do wrong?

[Calamity]

Are you using CRT Emudriver?

[Silverwind]

Are you using CRT Emudriver?

Yes I downloaded the CRT Emudriver 9.3 for my ATI 4890.
It was working great on my arcade monitor.  Switched it out for the Sony because it died.  Ran VMMaker again and it says unable to create modes for that frequency.

If I run mame.exe instead of groovymame, the resolution looks different but the scrolling is not as nice.
groovymame is running at my desktop resolution and mame is not. (if I check the monitor OSD it reports the freq)

[Calamity]

Ran VMMaker again and it says unable to create modes for that frequency.

?? I don't remember having coded that error message. How are you setting vmmaker.ini.

It would just work if you left the default 15 kHz modes, don't need to create specific modes at first because GroovyMAME will adapt the existing ones to 120 Hz.

If I run mame.exe instead of groovymame, the resolution looks different but the scrolling is not as nice.
groovymame is running at my desktop resolution and mame is not. (if I check the monitor OSD it reports the freq)

It's running at your desktop resolution because it doesn't find proper resolutions to run with so it disables Switchres. Please send me a log:
groovymame romname -v >romname.txt

[Silverwind]

I ran vmmaker.exe again using the default ini.  I had modified it with the monitor_specs as custom. 

Final fight now runs at 240p 120hz and looks awesome!.  TMNT and golden axe launch but I get a black screen.  Will get a logfile of it for you.


games that run great:
double dragon
final fight
mortal kombat
nba jam
ms pac man

get a black screen: (all use the same resolution, i think 353x224?)
fantasy zone
golden axe
TMNT

[Calamity]

Black screen? Which version of GM are you using? Make sure to use the latest.

Also, those games use 320x224, you'll need to have available something like 640x224 or 640x240 to run those games properly.

VMMaker doesn't support the crt_range format, that's why it was not creating the modes.

[jdubs]

Silverwind, I'm curious how the 120hz mode is working out for you?

-Jim

I ran vmmaker.exe again using the default ini.  I had modified it with the monitor_specs as custom. 

Final fight now runs at 240p 120hz and looks awesome!.  TMNT and golden axe launch but I get a black screen.  Will get a logfile of it for you.


games that run great:
double dragon
final fight
mortal kombat
nba jam
ms pac man

get a black screen: (all use the same resolution, i think 353x224?)
fantasy zone
golden axe
TMNT