Another nagging PC hardware question

[TheManuel]

Sorry but I don't know who else to ask  .
I'm planning to make a low budget upgrade to my even-lower-budget-ghetto-PC (HP on-board everything, Celeron 700MHz, 192MB SDRAM, no AGP).  The idea of the upgrade is to have a little more pep for MAME and to have an AGP port.
The key requirements here are that I have to be able to re-use my non-DDR SDRAM, power supply (if possible) and computer case which, unfortunately, happens to be a Micro-ATX form factor.  The other requirement is that it must have AGP so I can buy an All-In-Wonder Radeon to play MAME on the TV and eventually use Ultimarc's Arcade VGA card when I make a total upgrade and use the old system for a cab with authentic monitor.
With that in mind, I zeroed-in on the low-priced KM2M Combo-L motheboard from MSI who I believe are not a terrible manufacturer.  I allows me to use either non-DDR or DDR (potential future mini-upgrade), has AGP 4X and is micro-ATX.
As far as processor, going by compatiblility and the law of diminishing returns, I chose the Athlon XP 2400+ Thoroughbred.
Here are the Egghead links to both:
MSI KM2M Combo-L - http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?description=13-130-404
Athlon XP 2400+ Thoroughbred - http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?description=19-103-336
Total price: a delicious $138, free shipping.

And the questions are:
1)  Is this a sound strategy?  I don't know a heck of a lot about computers, but I know enough to know there is always more than it seems when combining components.
2)  Should I be concerned with the power supply adequacy by adding these new components? (I'm at work so I can't check my current power supply but just to get an idea)

I will appreciate any comments on this.

[eightbit]

Are you sure thats a standard case? I thought HP used a proprietary case.

I would be very concerned about the power supply.

[TheManuel]

Are you sure thats a standard case? I thought HP used a proprietary case.

I would be very concerned about the power supply.

I don't know if it is standard.  About ther power supply, what kind of power would a system like this require?

[civic83]

the power supply will run any atx style board (albeit, they are usually only 120-140 watt) and are not p4 compatible (works with amd tho), the trouble you will run into is the case, altho the mountings are standard, i beleive you will find that pretty much all mainboards position the ram up high on the bord and it will run into the cdrom inside the case (I have scrapped at leat 6 hp's because of this), also, they usually have non standard connectors for the leds and buttons (which you can overcome by slpicing).

Really you should buy a new case and power supply, you can get decent ones for about 40 to 50 bucks (canadian), trust me, it will be worth the extra cash

[Tiger-Heli]

Mobo-wise there's also the ASROCK A7KVM2 Same chipset as the MSI, but only $43, ASROCK is a subsidiary of ASUS, so I think they're pretty good, although I haven't bought any of there stuff yet.

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?DEPA=0&submit=Go&description=13%2D157%2D003

Cases with a 300W power supply start at $23 at the egg, (plus like $15 shipping), but then you don't need to limit yourself to micro ATX.

Also, I bought a refurbed Shuttle AK38N KT333 mobo from www.newegg.com for $23, and it's been great for me.  Only a 15-day warranty, though on refurbs.

[TheManuel]

Believe it or not, I've since changed to the Asrock after researching on the internet and for the same reason you pointed out.

Now the only problem is I'll probably have to buy a case and power supply as I would not feel safe with the old PS and the case won't fit anyway.

Mobo-wise there's also the ASROCK A7KVM2 Same chipset as the MSI, but only $43, ASROCK is a subsidiary of ASUS, so I think they're pretty good, although I haven't bought any of there stuff yet.

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?DEPA=0&submit=Go&description=13%2D157%2D003

Cases with a 300W power supply start at $23 at the egg, (plus like $15 shipping), but then you don't need to limit yourself to micro ATX.

Also, I bought a refurbed Shuttle AK38N KT333 mobo from www.newegg.com for $23, and it's been great for me.  Only a 15-day warranty, though on refurbs.

[Tiger-Heli]

One thing to consider is you MIGHT be making too much of a deal over the SDRAM.  That limits you to KM266 boards like the ASROCK.  256M of PC2100 is like $30 on www.pricewatch.com now, and that would allow you to go with a KT400 or KT600 or NForce mobo.

Of course the ASROCK will work with either SDRAM or DDR, so your limiting factors become the ASROCK board won't take a faster than 2600 XP processor.  Of course, I don't think AMD is going to make more than the current 3200XP processors, so it's only that top 600 that you're giving up . . .

And I'm rambling . . .

[TheManuel]

Well, in that respect, 2GHZ is already more than I initially set out to acquire because I did not know how cheap those AMD processors were.  I'm not worried much about upgrading further.  Most of the game I've ever been interested into, have been emulated and will run on that motherboard like Rush Limbough after a vial of PSP.  The games I would like to play on MAME and are not emulated yet, run on NAOMI (MvsC2, SNKvsCapcom, etc.) and when they do get emulated, I'm guessing no amount of upgrade-proofing will prepare me for them.
All in all, I think I'm getting a great deal, except that I wasn't expecting to have to buy a power supply.  Oh well, now I'm rambling  

Thanks for the help.

One thing to consider is you MIGHT be making too much of a deal over the SDRAM.  That limits you to KM266 boards like the ASROCK.  256M of PC2100 is like $30 on www.pricewatch.com now, and that would allow you to go with a KT400 or KT600 or NForce mobo.

Of course the ASROCK will work with either SDRAM or DDR, so your limiting factors become the ASROCK board won't take a faster than 2600 XP processor.  Of course, I don't think AMD is going to make more than the current 3200XP processors, so it's only that top 600 that you're giving up . . .

And I'm rambling . . .

[Tiger-Heli]

You also might consider the ASROCK K7VT2 instead of the VM2.  It's $46.  (It was $44 yesterday, :-(((  (I'm considering buying this board also)).  Differences are:  Does NOT have on-board video, which is good if you are adding a card.  (Since the VM2 has an AGP slot, I don't think you'd have conflicts, but in the old days it was a problem.) And it has two more PCI slots as it's not a micro-ATX board, but if you're upgrading the case and PS, that doesn't matter.

Well, in that respect, 2GHZ is already more than I initially set out to acquire because I did not know how cheap those AMD processors were.  I'm not worried much about upgrading further.  Most of the game I've ever been interested into, have been emulated and will run on that motherboard like Rush Limbough after a vial of PSP.

Actually, I agree with everything you said, and the XP2400 is kinda overkill for most things MAME.  I might consider the XP2000 for $67 instead of the XP2400 for $80, if I was being extra cheap.

You did remember to get the retail box version or get a heatsink, right?  If you need a heatsink, I really like what I read about the Speeze Falconrock (80mm fan, 2700 RPM), from www.newegg.com for $9.  (Although I haven't tried one, YET).

But as you said, either one should do fine on anything except WarGods, or maybe PropCycle, or Cruisin' or Blitz '99 or SF Rush, and the latter games won't run on the latest AMD XP3200's, and I don't think there'll be an XP3400, so . . .

[TheManuel]

You also might consider the ASROCK K7VT2 instead of the VM2.  It's $46.  (It was $44 yesterday, :-(((  (I'm considering buying this board also)).  Differences are:  Does NOT have on-board video, which is good if you are adding a card.  (Since the VM2 has an AGP slot, I don't think you'd have conflicts, but in the old days it was a problem.) And it has two more PCI slots as it's not a micro-ATX board, but if you're upgrading the case and PS, that doesn't matter.

I saw that one but shyed away from it just because it doesn't have an onboard video card and cost a little extra.  I thought having that onboard video until I bought the ATI would be a good asset but I never imagined it could present problems when I installed the AGP card.  I wonder how likely this could be.

Actually, I agree with everything you said, and the XP2400 is kinda overkill for most things MAME.  I might consider the XP2000 for $67 instead of the XP2400 for $80, if I was being extra cheap.

I did consider such a stepdown but, knowing me, I will be sorely tempted to pay the extra $13 and get the 2400+.  For some reason, 2GHz is such a round and beckoning number.

You did remember to get the retail box version or get a heatsink, right?  If you need a heatsink, I really like what I read about the Speeze Falconrock (80mm fan, 2700 RPM), from www.newegg.com for $9.  (Although I haven't tried one, YET).

Yep, I'll be going the retail box way since it takes care of that and the thermal compound.

But as you said, either one should do fine on anything except WarGods, or maybe PropCycle, or Cruisin' or Blitz '99 or SF Rush, and the latter games won't run on the latest AMD XP3200's, and I don't think there'll be an XP3400, so . . .

Fourtunately, none of those games interest me and I think that either option under consideration will be more than enough for Mortal Kombat 3 which is the only one I can't run on my system right now.

[ntjedi]

As for the onboard video, I cannot count how many times I have seen or had problems with it.  Even thou your not supposed to have problems, there still is.  My last example was a PChips MB with onboard video and even thou it was turned off, it conflicted with the ArcadeVGA and gave me some pretty weird video results.  IMHO, stay clear of any MB with onboard video.

[Tiger-Heli]

I saw that one but shyed away from it just because it doesn't have an onboard video card and cost a little extra.  I thought having that onboard video until I bought the ATI would be a good asset but I never imagined it could present problems when I installed the AGP card.  I wonder how likely this could be.

Actually, now that I think about it the problems I've usually heard about were on-board sound and adding a sound card.  In the old days, it was better to have a jumper on the board to disable sound rather than rely on the BIOS to do it.  But that stopped being an issue two or three years ago.  Actually, my first Pentium 200 mainboard (ASUS SP97-V) had on-board video and I added a PCI card to it with no problems.  It had jumpers, but they probably have all the bugs worked out.  (Just saw NTJedi's post, so maybe not though).

Also I assumed you already had the video card (my bad).  If you don't let me run a couple of things past you - You don't need a AIW card to play MAME on a TV, just a Radeon with TV out.  You need an AIW for Video in (if you want to watch VCR movies or run your TV INTO your card for a TIVO type system).  Recommended cards would be (Yipes, www.newegg.com dropped prices about $10 since I ordered a card last week.  This is becoming a really depressing thread).  Do a search under newegg video cards for RADEON

Sapphire 4X AGP 32M DDR Radeon 7000 VE for $32.

Gigabyte Radeon 9000 64M SDR Radeon for $40.  (I was going to buy the DDR version of this card for $50, but cheaped out).  It has a little more punch for 3D games, if that matters.

Yuan 128M Xpertvision 128M DDR Radeon 9200 SE for $54.50.  The 9200SE is actually slower than the 9000 but the 128M probably makes up for it.

Sapphire Radeon 9000 64M DDR VIVO for $57.50.  This is basically the same as the All-In-Wonder, if you really did need that functionality.

If you did buy the video card with the mobo now, you could verify whether there are any conflicts, and exchange it if necessary.

I did consider such a stepdown but, knowing me, I will be sorely tempted to pay the extra $13 and get the 2400+.  For some reason, 2GHz is such a round and beckoning number.

Well, it's only overkill for MAME, if you start playing PC games on the computer, you MIGHT want the extra horsepower.

You did remember to get the retail box version or get a heatsink, right?  If you need a heatsink, I really like what I read about the Speeze Falconrock (80mm fan, 2700 RPM), from www.newegg.com for $9.  (Although I haven't tried one, YET).

Fourtunately, none of those games interest me and I think that either option under consideration will be more than enough for Mortal Kombat 3 which is the only one I can't run on my system right now.

Yep, that's lucky.  I like a lot of those game especially Cruisin' and SF Rush, but have a hard time justifying a $1500 PC to avoid dropping 50 cents at the pizza parlor.

[TheManuel]

Actually, I do want the capability to capture my home videos.  This is, in fact, one of the main drivers for this upgrade.
I did not know about the 9000.  At that price, I'll have to check it out.
I was considering the AIW 7500 which is being auctioned (a bunch of them) by ATI themselves at ebay.  I would have to check what the warrant on that would be, though.
I'm starting to cosider the K7VT2 now to avoid problems.  The VM2 is a much better deal if compatibility were not a problem because it has the integrated video and a modem and is cheaper (although, I'll be providing both these components).

[Tiger-Heli]

I'm starting to cosider the K7VT2 now to avoid problems.  The VM2 is a much better deal if compatibility were not a problem because it has the integrated video and a modem and is cheaper (although, I'll be providing both these components).

Network card, not modem, AFAIK

[TheManuel]

Sapphire Radeon 9000 64M DDR VIVO for $57.50.  This is basically the same as the All-In-Wonder, if you really did need that functionality.

I just noticed that is an OEM, not built by ATI.  I've heard bad things about the TV-out capabilities of those.

[Tiger-Heli]

Sapphire Radeon 9000 64M DDR VIVO for $57.50.  This is basically the same as the All-In-Wonder, if you really did need that functionality.

I just noticed that is an OEM, not built by ATI.  I've heard bad things about the TV-out capabilities of those.

True, but I've also heard Sapphire actually makes all the true ATI stuff also.

You might want to ask in the Monitor/Video or the www.rage3d.com Radeon 9000 support forums about that.

I've never used the TV out personally.

[TheManuel]

Network card, not modem, AFAIK

It's not really clear because the picture shows the AMR card with the phone conectors and the serial port attached to it.  

[Tiger-Heli]

Network card, not modem, AFAIK

It's not really clear because the picture shows the AMR card with the phone conectors and the serial port attached to it.  

Actually, I think you're right.  It has a network card on-board and a modem on the riser card.  I've looked at tons of mobo's this week and wasn't looking at the accessory package pics.