4-controller hub? Possible?

[Donger]

Hi-

I'm a newbie!  Doing some furious initial research while trying to determine the design of my first cab.

Obviously, I'm looking at getting the keyboard encoder.  However, I was thinking about the following option, and was wondering if anyone tried it.

You get 4 USB gamepads and wire your controls to the gamepads.  The gamepads would link up to the USB hub, which goes into the computer.  You could potentially save the hundred-or-so bucks that would be spent on the encoder.  (Also, I have a few of these controllers lying around.)

Sounds pretty simple; however, would MAME or other EMUs work under this situation?  I don't own a USB hub, so I've never tried to get more than one or two controllers working simultaneously in MAME.

Thanks!

Donger

[fogman]

First off, the hundred or so on an encoder is way too much.  Check out the prices on I-Pacs or Keywiz's.  You'll find that the price is probably more consistent with getting a 4 USB game pads, at least ones with a lot of buttons.

Second of all, it is a lot of work to hack all the controllers.  I used an IPAC and not only did I have the thing wired up in an evening, but the customer support is phenomenal.  You can just about expect to get a response from Andy within 1/2 hour!  Trust me, there is plenty of work in designing, building, decorating and outfitting a CAB.  Saving a few bucks on an encoder is not (IMHO) a good investment!

Having said that, I have a Dual Strike sindewinder, a Sidewinder Wheel, a trackball, a spinner and a Sidewinder joystick plugged into a 7 port USB2 hub.  They all get along just fine!  Your experienc may vary, but mine work fine in Mame.

[eightbit]

Something to keep in mind not all emulators work with joystick input. Mame doesn't have a problem with joysticks but some front ends for mame don't support them.

There are issues with some usb game pads. Sometimes they like to switch which player is which. That can be a bummer if you wire them into a panel. They are expensive (relatively). Some don't like to be hacked, soldering can be difficult. If they don't use a common ground you have to solder twice as many connections.

If you want to hack gamepads use gameport ones. The sidewinder is the best one I've seen. You get 14 inputs per pad. You can daisy chain 4 pads. You can get them for under $5 a peice. They don't swap players when you reboot. They are easy to solder (nice big marked test pads to solder to). They use a common ground (much less soldering).

There are MANY advantages to using a keyboard encoder. They will work with all emulators and they are extremely configurable for the most compatibility and flexibility. If you were looking at over $100 you were probably looking at hagstrom. Hagstrom makes some good encoders but they have a lot of extra features you might not need. If you want 4 players look at the 4 player ipac. If 4 players aren't a requirement look at the keywiz. Its a very econmical choice ($33 shipped) and probably costs less than 2 of those USB pads of yours. You can do 4 players on a keywiz but its a little more work and has some limitations. It would be a lot less work than hacking 1 gamepad though not to mention you'd have to hack 4 pads.

[Lilwolf]

Dont forget the MK64... Great encoder (and the first local encoder designed for 4player cabs)... Also has SNK rotary support.

They are all great.

You WILL be able to do it cheaper.  But if you value your time... it wont be.  Hacking controllers is NOT easy, and when pricing to yourself... you will probably kill one...

I personally think its best to do the hacking when you have extra controllers around... If you have to buy them... then its not worth it.... worth just getting a keyboard encoder.

btw, one BAD side of keyboard encoders.  Some PC games don't allow you to split the keyboard input to more then one player.  So there are some reasons why hacking joysticks is good..

[SirPoonga]

They are expensive (relatively).

No they aren't, $5-$10 if you know where to look.
I got two 13 button gamepads for $5 each.  
And IPAC will cost you about $80 with shipping for the 4 player one.  But you don't get the hastle of soldering

You will run into the problem of gamepad order changing once and awhile.  Not that often.  Windows is weird like that.
Also yeah, some emulators don't like joysticks.  Though most that I use don't have issues.

Are you going to make the panel swappable that you'd need to make it usb?

[eightbit]

Are you going to make the panel swappable that you'd need to make it usb?

Swappable panels can easily be done with a keyboard encoder. Just make the plug after the encoder. A huge advantage to that is you don't need a encoder for each panel.

I used a parallel extension cable here.

[SirPoonga]

Yep, I know it is possible.  But it's easier with USB.  haven;t you seen pics of my cabinet.  I use a db25 also.

For my cocktail I plan on using USB as that will make life easier.

[Donger]

Everyone, thanks for replying!  You guys are totally helpful.

Basically what I wanted to do (on my wishlist) was make the cp ps2 and pc compatible.  One friend suggested that I hack into 4 PS/PS2 controllers, wire them up, and use USB converters to connect to the USB hub.

SirPoonga - could you please expound upon your plan for using USB (for the swappable panels)?  How would the wiring be done for a 4 person CP?  How many USB connections to the IPAC would be needed?  I think I'm at 44 inputs for my current planned cp.

Thanks alot!

[eightbit]

You wouldn't need the ipac if you used the ps/ps2 pads. The ipac is a keyboard encoder, it would either plug in via ps/2 or 1 usb port.

[SirPoonga]

SirPoonga - could you please expound upon your plan for using USB (for the swappable panels)?  How would the wiring be done for a 4 person CP?  How many USB connections to the IPAC would be needed?  I think I'm at 44 inputs for my current planned cp.

My idea is for my cocktail cabinet.  The control panel on each side will be removable.  the interface will be a USB  plug or two.  Then in the control panel i will just use mouse and gamepad hacks.  I want the pacman look but those panels aren't big enough for the controls I want.

Yeah, you could get two ps2 pads and hack those.  Redoctane has a dual usb convertor that works great.  It's weird, ddrmaniax.net says it isn't ddr compatible, but I had no probs with it.

[Spaced Invader]

One note, if you hack different pads (ie. Sidewinder with Axis Pad, etc...) you shouldn't have the pad swapping problem.

[SirPoonga]

Why?  This sounds like a myth to me.  My mice change around and they are different mice.

[papaschtroumpf]

Maybe they're bith seen by windows as "generic" mice.

My understanding is that devices are enumerated but the usb controller in a way that is not dependent on the physical connection, so whenever the controller re-enumerates the devices it may assign them a different device ID (think of it as a low level "address").
I think that when devices are re-enumerated, windows simply "finds" them again. Now if you have a SuperDuperBrandA  Joystic and a ExtraMegaBrandB joystick, they differ enough in how they identify themselves to Windows that windows can keep it straight. If on the other hand you have two GenericBrandA gamepads and another GenerciBrandB gamepad which all identify themselves to Windows as "Generic 8 direction 2 button gamepad" to Windows, Windows can't differentiate between them.