Author Topic: USB HID Joystick interface. (Read 9695 times)

daveb · « **on:** November 09, 2003, 07:37:59 pm »

Hey guys, I've thrown together a prototype PIC16c745 based USB HID Joystick simulator board for interfacing controls via usb. I guess you could say it's similar to the I-Pac except it's detected as a USB joystick instead of a USB keyboard. The design I've got supports 1 joystick and 10 buttons. It should work on any PC with Win98SE or newer, and it works in linux too. I believe it will also work on USB capable macs, but I havent tried it. Would anyone be interested in these things if I had some boards produced? If so, what would you consider to be a fair price? Are there other features that you might like to have? I'm still looking around at pcb prototyping facilities, so I'm not sure how economical it would be to produce them.. I'd just like to gague interest.
Thanks a million,
David B.

eightbit · « **Reply #1 on:** November 09, 2003, 09:13:01 pm »

Analog or digital joystick?

daveb · « **Reply #2 on:** November 09, 2003, 09:19:51 pm »

The current design is digital, which should be ideal for 4-way or 8-way microswitch based sticks. Of course, I'd be willing to add analog support if people wanted it.

Spaced Invader · « **Reply #3 on:** November 09, 2003, 10:19:54 pm »

I'd be interested....pad hacking is tedious.

Popcorrin · « **Reply #4 on:** November 10, 2003, 08:24:15 am »

I would be interested , depending on the price. I would guess that $20-$30 would be a fair price and if it had analog support that would be worth even more to me.

u_rebelscum · « **Reply #5 on:** November 10, 2003, 08:36:46 am »

Personally, I'm not interested at digital joysticks; I already have my keyboard encoders. However I am stilling looking for an easy way to hook up multiple analog joysticks for removable control panels. A USB card with real analog input and 10 or so buttons, now that's something I could buy.

An analog interface, switchable between taking 100k (PC gameport standard) or 5k (arcade standard) POTs, would be awesome!

As for price, hmm, I think I'd go $20 to maybe $30 bucks, depending on the exact features. (Probably $30-$55 if it did two analog joysticks.) Not sure about other people; I find I think about money differently now that I'm out of college.

If you think about it, on one hand it's about $20-$25 retail (sometimes $15 sale) for a dual analog, 8-way stick, & 6-16 buttons gamepad to hack ($5-$15 for all digital gamepad). Compare the other hand with your interface card: yours will be easier to hack, but looks like it could have less inputs. In the third hand (

) you have the keyboard encoders, especially if you stay all digital. [shrug] You will have to weight the against those, since that's what the possible buyers will have for alternatives.

Let me close by saying I am a little bias toward analog inputs (see sig).

So check what others think, too.

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #6 on:** November 10, 2003, 10:34:25 am »

I agree with Urebel.

I might be interested in a digital solution, but only if it were VERY reasonable ($5 - $10).

I would be interested in an way to hook up a Star Wars yoke, or pot-based arcade wheel, pedals, etc to USB.

5K or 100K switchable would be great.

Price preferably around $20 - $25.

I realize 1Up's Dual-Strike hack could work for this, but they are going to get harder to find, and this would be much easier.

aricade · « **Reply #7 on:** November 10, 2003, 11:19:58 am »

One Idea to make it cheaper for us Po' folks
is to:

Make kits where we can get the pcb and/maybe parts(else we could obtain from local electronic shops). So we can solder it up ourselves...

I dont know if your costs would be lower by doing this? It would only work if it was cheaper for you to I guess.

BUT I'd really be interested in something like this. I think the cheaper you make it the more viable it will be for your consumers... You could still sell prefab to for the rich folk...

that's my $.02

Cheers,
Po' guy

daveb · « **Reply #8 on:** November 10, 2003, 02:17:01 pm »

Thanks for the input, guys. I'll make analog support a priority

.
Looking at the specs for the chip I'm working with, I think I could squeeze in support for up to 4 analog axes - either 2 sticks, or one stick and 2 throttle/pedals/what have you. Also there's potential to bring the number of buttons up to at least 12, possibly 14, depending on whether or not the board will have user-configurability via jumpers for things like 5k/100k switching, analog/digital switching, or mapping analog axes to device types (i.e. throttle vs joystick y-axis).

Anyone have any other thoughts/ideas?
I guess I've got some more engineering to do

I'll keep you posted on my progress.

Dave

eightbit · « **Reply #9 on:** November 10, 2003, 10:25:49 pm »

Quote from: daveb on November 10, 2003, 02:17:01 pm

Thanks for the input, guys. I'll make analog support a priority .
Looking at the specs for the chip I'm working with, I think I could squeeze in support for up to 4 analog axes - either 2 sticks, or one stick and 2 throttle/pedals/what have you. Also there's potential to bring the number of buttons up to at least 12, possibly 14, depending on whether or not the board will have user-configurability via jumpers for things like 5k/100k switching, analog/digital switching, or mapping analog axes to device types (i.e. throttle vs joystick y-axis).

Anyone have any other thoughts/ideas?
I guess I've got some more engineering to do

I'll keep you posted on my progress.

Dave

I was skeptical at first but there is nothing like this currently available. If you could do analog that would really make it. If would be a great interface for a cabinet with a wheel/pedal and 1 player controls. With 14 inputs you can even scrape out a basic 2 player panel. I would be interested in a easy analog interface and would be willing to spend more than my previous assertions of having to create a ultra cheap interface to make it viable.

Xiaou2 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 11, 2003, 12:18:26 am »

I also agree with Urebel. I need an analog soultion as well. A combo of 5k and 100k pots inputs for arcade controls and hacked pc pots.

I will be using a rotating control panel setup... and would like all the controls to be hooked up all at the same time.

Needed:

1 Starwars yoke x,y
1 Super Hangon x,y,z

2 Analog sticks x1,y1,x2,y2
(possibly 4 max for dual tank game or future game use)

2 analog sticks for T2 guns x1,y1,x2,y2

2 Gas y1, y2 ?
2 Brakes y3, y4 ?

(? need a switch for a 'shared' pot for gas/brakes -vs- seperate pots for gas/brakes)

Since Id need like 6 axis for dual players...
(x,y,z for each player for maximum flexibility) I think maybe Id have to split the players up between 2 encoders. Will more than one device be compatible with others?

Maybe 2 or 3 inputs per pot and have a 'cycle' button so that you can choose which pot you are using. This way you can have more than one control hooked up the the same pots... and then just cycle to the desired controls with a single button press. (Else it would take many more devices)

Any other thoughts anyone?

Tailgunner · « **Reply #11 on:** November 11, 2003, 01:08:36 am »

What I've heard so far sounds good, though I'd like to see a DB15 female plug incorperated into the device. There are DB15 to USB adapters out there, but none I've seen support more that the basic two button joysticks.

I've got at least $1000 worth of various joysticks that have been made obsolete by the switch to USB, I'd be highly interested in something that would make them usable again.

paigeoliver · « **Reply #12 on:** November 11, 2003, 01:14:05 am »

One very important feature could be a dipswitch to change the "name" of the device (or something to differentiate between a first and second one). So that a person using two of them wouldn't find them swapping positions on every bootup.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #13 on:** November 11, 2003, 01:47:34 am »

Maybe you could have it support both analog and digital, or switch between them.

This would be a cool idea. Especially if you can make it as small as a joystick pcb.

Minwah · « **Reply #14 on:** November 11, 2003, 05:16:45 am »

I wouldn't use it digitally (I prefer keyboard encoders)...

But again, I would love analog support. I'd like to have 2 pedals (single or dual axis) connected all the time, and then (perhaps as a different player/interface) have steering wheel OR analog stick + paddle connected, depending on control panel.

As u_rebel said, 5k pot support would be awesome too

u_rebelscum · « **Reply #15 on:** November 11, 2003, 06:47:23 am »

Not sure if I really should call attention to another similar product, but happs sells a $185 USB interface card that can do analog joysticks.

It also does a trackball with mouse buttons, which you don't need to do. Doubt you need to include the watchdog timer or coin/bill counters, either.

(Happs calls it "Low cost". [snicker])

simc · « **Reply #16 on:** November 11, 2003, 07:57:13 am »

Yes, I would be interested.

I often wonder why this hasn't been done before. Hacking a keyboard is too complicated with all the ghosting and matrix issues. The I-PAC is too expensive for me. If I could chose between buying a USB digital then hacking it and buying your device for the same price, I would buy your device. If you device was a third more than the price of a USB digital controller then I would still buy it because it is less risky and less work.

I would only want to pay about half of the price of an I-PAC. I would be willing to sacrifice some inputs (but I need enough for the Joystick + 8 buttons) but having enough inputs to support 2 sticks at once would be handy. I wouldn't need the device to be programmable either. I don't care about analogue myself.

What I am using now is a PlayStation digital pad and a usb converter. If I was going to make another stick I would be interested in getting your device because it would save me a lot of hassle.

paigeoliver · « **Reply #17 on:** November 11, 2003, 07:57:49 am »

Quote from: u_rebelscum on November 11, 2003, 06:47:23 am

Not sure if I really should call attention to another similar product, but happs sells a $185 USB interface card that can do analog joysticks.

It also does a trackball with mouse buttons, which you don't need to do. Doubt you need to include the watchdog timer or coin/bill counters, either.

(Happs calls it "Low cost". [snicker])

On a related note, I have what I think is the old version of that hardware. It is an ISA card, and it was in my Tournament Solitaire. It seems to have about a zillion inputs on it, but you have to put a rom on it to configure it for what you want them to be. I just listed it for sale on RGVAC along with the other Solitaire custom cards.

Cameronj · « **Reply #18 on:** November 11, 2003, 10:35:13 am »

I would be interested. Good luck on your product.

Cameron

daveb · « **Reply #19 on:** November 11, 2003, 06:19:30 pm »

Well, I've got a circuit layed out, hopefully I can pick up some parts this week and do some testing... By the way, I just wanted to verify for the people using analog controls, you're using linear 3-pin potentiometers, right? With the 3-pin type, I can use it as a voltage divider and easily keep compatibility between 5k/100k pots. With the 2-pin type, I'd need to redesign the circuit.
As always, thanks for the help:)
Actually, part of my inspiration for doing this was that outrageously priced interface card from Happs.
Tailgunner: What kind of joysticks do you have? If they're gameport with more than 6 buttons, they most likely use some kind of strange multiplexing, which would probably be proprietary, hence the reason they're not usually supported by the usb converters.

u_rebelscum · « **Reply #20 on:** November 11, 2003, 11:10:42 pm »

Quote from: daveb on November 11, 2003, 06:19:30 pm

Well, I've got a circuit layed out, hopefully I can pick up some parts this week and do some testing... By the way, I just wanted to verify for the people using analog controls, you're using linear 3-pin potentiometers, right? With the 3-pin type, I can use it as a voltage divider and easily keep compatibility between 5k/100k pots. With the 2-pin type, I'd need to redesign the circuit.
As always, thanks for the help:)

Most, if not all, POTs used for gaming are 3 pin.
- AFAIK, all arcade 5k pots are 3 pin.
- All standard gameport POTs are connected to two pins, but the third is sitting there, unused. However, since your product would replace the gameport, the POTs don't need to be attatched like that anymore.
- POTs used in multiplex'ed gameports (sidewider, etc) and USB could be either way, but the few I've seen were 3 pin.

I think it's okay to assume everyone has 3 pin linear. Or at least they should.

Quote

Actually, part of my inspiration for doing this was that outrageously priced interface card from Happs.

Whew, didn't want to see your price go sky high by pointing it out.

Tailgunner · « **Reply #21 on:** November 11, 2003, 11:17:51 pm »

Actually a pair of radio shack's gameport to USB conveters would give me 8 axi, 16 buttons and 2 four way hat switches, which I should be able to make work for what I have in mind for that project.

Going back to regular MAME stuff, I have a XY yoke, two analog joysticks, an analog throttle, and several analog pedals that would benefit from your interface.

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #22 on:** November 12, 2003, 07:22:05 am »

Quote from: u_rebelscum on November 11, 2003, 11:10:42 pm

Quote from: daveb on November 11, 2003, 06:19:30 pm
Well, I've got a circuit layed out, hopefully I can pick up some parts this week and do some testing... By the way, I just wanted to verify for the people using analog controls, you're using linear 3-pin potentiometers, right? With the 3-pin type, I can use it as a voltage divider and easily keep compatibility between 5k/100k pots. With the 2-pin type, I'd need to redesign the circuit.
As always, thanks for the help:)

Most, if not all, POTs used for gaming are 3 pin.
- AFAIK, all arcade 5k pots are 3 pin.
- All standard gameport POTs are connected to two pins, but the third is sitting there, unused. However, since your product would replace the gameport, the POTs don't need to be attatched like that anymore.
- POTs used in multiplex'ed gameports (sidewider, etc) and USB could be either way, but the few I've seen were 3 pin.

I think it's okay to assume everyone has 3 pin linear. Or at least they should.

Quote
Actually, part of my inspiration for doing this was that outrageously priced interface card from Happs.

Whew, didn't want to see your price go sky high by pointing it out.

Ermmm, ummm, totally lost now. The gameport devices that I'm familiar with used 3-pin pots with only 2-pins connected. For example, for a pedal, wiring the pedal between the left pin and center produced 0 ohms with the pedal released, and 100k with the pedal floored. Wiring the pedal between the right pin and the center produced 100k ohms with the pedal released and 0 ohms with the pedal depressed.

Also, this might be harder to do, but it would be nice to me if the device had separate inputs for 100K and 5k pots, or if it auto-sensed.

In other words, I envision your interface in a project box, and then I plug a 5k SW yoke or a 100K pedal into it using a DB?? cable. I'd rather not have to open the project box to swap a jumper setting, for example.

Xiaou2 · « **Reply #23 on:** November 12, 2003, 05:31:11 pm »

hmm, just thought of something. Will the device be force feedback capable? Id really like to have at least one force feedback wheel... and maybe a rumble or coil action for t2 guns.

Maybe you could also make a board to power seleniods for t2 guns, as well as other functions too...?

daveb · « **Reply #24 on:** November 12, 2003, 06:33:22 pm »

What I mean by voltage divider is this: +5v, and Ground would be connected across the two POT pins that always measure 100k/5k. The third pin would then fluxuate between 0-5v as the potentiometer is adjusted

. It is this pin that I would read to get the state of the POT. I believe this will work for both 100k and 5k pots, I just need to do some testing to verify that the circuit timings work out...

Tiger-Heli, you raised an interesting point. I was planning on using a wire terminal block, similar to the I-Pac, to connect the controls to... would people prefer I use some kind of DBshell connector?
The way I have it layed out right now I have 14 wire terminals to connect to various buttons, 1 wire terminal to ground the buttons and POTs, 1 terminal to supply +5v to the POTs, and 5 terminals to connect to the "sliders" of the POTs. (yep, 5 analog inputs. I'm not yet certain I can squeeze enough performace out of the chip I'm using to read them all, but I'm gonna try!

)

As for force feedback or powering solenoids, I'm pretty sure that would draw too much current through the USB port... With external power it might be possible. I guess I'd have to see how force feedback wheels and other devices are usually wired to arcade hardware.

Minwah · « **Reply #25 on:** November 12, 2003, 07:15:50 pm »

I would prefer the terminal blocks. That way, you could wire stuff straight to it. Tiger-Heli could make a DB connector > separate cable adaptor (shouldn't be much bother), but would the gameport-3-pin-pots-but-only-2-pins-wired work OK with this?

eightbit · « **Reply #26 on:** November 12, 2003, 07:16:18 pm »

Please don't get sidetracked by things like force feedback and recoil. Mame doesn't support force feedback and few games had it anyway and other than t2 what can use the recoil? They would both be really cool features just not worth adding to the cost of the encoder at least for me.

I think a wire terminal block would also be the most flexible for everybody and then we could easily attach our own plugs if necessary.

spidermonkey · « **Reply #27 on:** November 12, 2003, 07:46:37 pm »

Oh man this would be sweet ! I bought a 100k analog stick from Happ long ago and have yet to hook it up due to the lack of analog interfaces. I've been drooling all over that Happ board for a couple years now but its just too damn expensive. Now I'd be able to play Foodfight,Roadrunner Sinistar ect.. if this interface board becomes a reality.

PLEEEASE BUILD THIS THING ! Screw force feedback and any other bells and whistles. I could be wrong but I would imagine the majority of us would want you to just concentrate on analog support ie joystick,wheel,pedals yoke ect.. and a few buttons to go with it.

JustMichael · « **Reply #28 on:** November 12, 2003, 08:17:58 pm »

In case you aren't aware spidermonkey, 100K analog joysticks can be connected to the current pc gameport.

spidermonkey · « **Reply #29 on:** November 12, 2003, 08:37:54 pm »

Yeah I know J.M. but I haven't been able to get MAME OR windows to recognize it. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I've had numerous other cheapo pc analog flight sticks (both with and without driver discs) work fine but this Happ one is giving me problems. Its a Happ analog stick with standard handle and it cost me a bundle. Right now its just taking up space on the cp of my first cab but if this interface comes out I'll hook it up to that even if I have to switch the pots to 5k. (unless he makes it 5k/100k switchable.

Xiaou2 · « **Reply #30 on:** November 12, 2003, 10:09:43 pm »

Screw force feedback? I think not. If anyones ever played one of the greatest racing games of all times 'Outrun'... then one knows how its clearly not the same without the moving steering wheel : ( Simularly Terminator 2 is a great gun game... but lacks in feeling without the machine gun rattle from the true pinball coils.

I think people are worried about the added cost... and I guess maybe thats warrented. However... it could be added as an add-on board for those of us who want the Real experience and cant afford the real game.

While mame itself dosnt "Yet" support FF... Theres an emu that does play outrun with FF, and it works great.

(however not as good as its supposed to due to using the wrong type of feedback. It should be using a standard one direction motor (rumble type) - varying the speeds, rather than using the analog wheels "left to right motion". If it were changed... one could actually hook up a true outrun wheel to the pc, or to make an assembly that works exactly the same way ((the entire steering assembly is on a sliding track and the motor puses it back/forth via a link arm like a train)))

Someone has also made a hacked mame driver that powers a coil for T2.

Also most PC games will use FF. I would like to play some of them using my controller rather than just use it for mame.

Finally... with a way to interface real coils & motors to emulators(and or pc games)... someone may finally get interested and write a driver to power the devices.

Some other great FF games:

- Race Drivin
- Daytona USA
- Sanfransisco Rush
- VR Racing
- Time Crisis
- Point blank ?
- Afterburner (rumble joy and moving cockpit)

and many many more...

Theres also a personal dream of interfacing real coils, switches, ect... to a home built mini pinball machine. You could possibly use a modded Pinmame to emulate the electronics.. then use it to control the real parts...

u_rebelscum · « **Reply #31 on:** November 13, 2003, 02:07:21 am »

Daveb,

Do a terminal block. Gives us the most flexibility.

As for forceFeedback, it's an extra feature that would be cool in the future, but for now it won't make a difference in whether I buy your product or not. Personally, I suggest leaving it out if it would delay or hamper you making you interface, or if it would increase the price too much. In a couple years, when mame is doing or about to do FF, then I might favor your interface to have FF. ("Designed obsolescence", and "standard & deluxe models" are major business practices.

)

BTW, for some reason I don't think the buttons sharing ground with analog is a good idea, but I don't remember why.

It might be a specific interface thing, not a general electronic thing, though. (Maybe from "don't mix ipac ground with hacked joystick ground"?)

Tiger-Heli,

You discribed the way the gameport standard is set up to read POTs (2 pins = read ohms or current); daveb discribed the way most console and USB controllers read POTs (3 pins = read volts). Gameport controllers with more than 4 axes and/or 4 buttons (like sidewinder and USB/gameport combo controllers) don't follow the gameport standard, so they can, and usually do, use all 3 pins also.

BTW, heres a good link on voltage dividers.

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #32 on:** November 13, 2003, 08:12:59 am »

>Tiger-Heli, you raised an interesting point. I was planning on using a >wire terminal block, similar to the I-Pac, to connect the controls to... >would people prefer I use some kind of DBshell connector?

Well, actually, I meant a terminal block that I could wire to a DB shell connector, not having the DBshell on the board. I think Tailgunner wanted the DB15 on the board though. What might be cool is to have a DB15 on the board as strictly a gameport to USB converter, and terminal blocks for all the other inputs. More on that in my next post, though.

>As for force feedback or powering solenoids, I'm pretty sure that >would draw too much current through the USB port...

Don't the commercial PC FF wheels (microsoft, logitech, etc.) run straight off the USB port? I'm just asking, I don't own one.

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #33 on:** November 13, 2003, 08:32:10 am »

Quote from: u_rebelscum on November 13, 2003, 02:07:21 am

You discribed the way the gameport standard is set up to read POTs (2 pins = read ohms or current); daveb discribed the way most console and USB controllers read POTs (3 pins = read volts). Gameport controllers with more than 4 axes and/or 4 buttons (like sidewinder and USB/gameport combo controllers) don't follow the gameport standard, so they can, and usually do, use all 3 pins also.

Ok, I was talking about the circuits shown at http://www.gunpowder.freeserve.co.uk/wheels/wiring.htm, which do indeed cover measuring voltage to a PC gameport. I guess what I am interested in would be how to adapt this wiring to get the same effect with a USB connection and/or Daveb's interface.

I think you answered this in a previous thread, Urebel, but I couldn't really understand it then, either.

eightbit · « **Reply #34 on:** November 13, 2003, 08:56:48 am »

Quote from: Xiaou2 on November 12, 2003, 10:09:43 pm

Screw force feedback? I think not. If anyones ever played one of the greatest racing games of all times 'Outrun'... then one knows how its clearly not the same without the moving steering wheel : ( Simularly Terminator 2 is a great gun game... but lacks in feeling without the machine gun rattle from the true pinball coils.

I think people are worried about the added cost... and I guess maybe thats warrented. However... it could be added as an add-on board for those of us who want the Real experience and cant afford the real game.

While mame itself dosnt "Yet" support FF... Theres an emu that does play outrun with FF, and it works great.

(however not as good as its supposed to due to using the wrong type of feedback. It should be using a standard one direction motor (rumble type) - varying the speeds, rather than using the analog wheels "left to right motion". If it were changed... one could actually hook up a true outrun wheel to the pc, or to make an assembly that works exactly the same way ((the entire steering assembly is on a sliding track and the motor puses it back/forth via a link arm like a train)))

Someone has also made a hacked mame driver that powers a coil for T2.

Also most PC games will use FF. I would like to play some of them using my controller rather than just use it for mame.

Finally... with a way to interface real coils & motors to emulators(and or pc games)... someone may finally get interested and write a driver to power the devices.

Some other great FF games:

- Race Drivin
- Daytona USA
- Sanfransisco Rush
- VR Racing
- Time Crisis
- Point blank ?
- Afterburner (rumble joy and moving cockpit)

and many many more...

Theres also a personal dream of interfacing real coils, switches, ect... to a home built mini pinball machine. You could possibly use a modded Pinmame to emulate the electronics.. then use it to control the real parts...

You must walk before you can run. I think what several of us have said is that a basic encoder would be a great place to start. We don't want to wait 3 years for a encoder that can do the advanced features for games that don't even support it yet. A modular encoder with upgradability would be cool but not cost effective.

You can have force feedback today on your panel all you have to do is hack a FF PC steering wheel. As far as your ultimate dream of having it been on a sliding track and with a train motor, I think the only way your going to get that is if you build it. Have you ever thought about just buying a outrun cabinet?

Kitbasher · « **Reply #35 on:** November 13, 2003, 10:13:32 am »

I am really interested in this idea as I build game pad currently (no room for a cabinet). Paigeoliver brought up a good point about being able to give the interfaces a "name" or number so when you use them on a cab the player one and player two setups would not shift places. I get around this because I plug in the game pads in order on the computer I feel like playing mame on at this time. Mame is installed on my main computer, my home theatre and on my wife's computer. Her's is a puzzle bobble and golden age only build.

daveb · « **Reply #36 on:** November 15, 2003, 03:09:51 am »

Hi guys,
Just a quick update here... I picked up some parts (including 100k and 5k pots to test with) and I've got a new prototype mostly together. I've still got some coding and testing to do, but it's moving along:)

It looks like I'm sticking with the terminal blocks. Also, I'll look into providing a setting for changing the device name, but since I'm already using all the PIC's I/O pins, that would mean 1 less button or analog axis. As an absolute maximum, there is a possibilty for up to 14 digital inputs, and 5 analog inputs.. I'll know for sure what's useable once I get the analog reading code finished and tested.

I'm also considering incrementing a number in the name of the device for each board produced, as an alternative to removing an input to add a jumper/switch.

As for force feedback, that's something that I'd consider down the road, but for now it seems a bit much

.

Dave B.

u_rebelscum · « **Reply #37 on:** November 17, 2003, 08:13:29 am »

Quote from: Tiger-Heli on November 13, 2003, 08:32:10 am

Ok, I was talking about the circuits shown at http://www.gunpowder.freeserve.co.uk/wheels/wiring.htm, which do indeed cover measuring voltage to a PC gameport. I guess what I am interested in would be how to adapt this wiring to get the same effect with a USB connection and/or Daveb's interface.

I think you answered this in a previous thread, Urebel, but I couldn't really understand it then, either.

I guess you read the simplified how a pot works from that site, also? He says the power must be attached to the middle (wiper) pin, but that's not true. With two pins, as long as one of the two wires is connected to the middle pin, you're fine. Since the POTs aren't diodes, you can wire power on one end and output in the middle, and it would the same as power in the middle and out on the same end as power was.

So wire you game port POTs same as diagrammed at the wheel site, except switching the the power wire to the end that was the output wire, and the output to the middle. Doing this is like turning a ceramic resistor around: nothing happens, so you can still use it like this in the gameport.

Now, for the three pins, power should be on one end, ground on the opposite end, and the output in the middle pin. This means just taking the above "mod"ed gameport POT, and sticking ground on the unused pin on the end. Connect the power to the power in the interface/hacked joystick and the output sensed wire to the output like a gameport, plus the ground to the ground. That's all that needs to be done.

With the 3 pin setup, the POT, instead of being just a single variable resister, becomes two variable resisters (whose sum equals the POT rating) with the output wire between them.

Here's an image I uploaded a little while ago of three vs two pin wiring:

Remember, on two pin wiring, it doesn't matter which wire is the power and which is the output ("sensor wire" in image).
To flip up/down directions on either type, move the end wire(s) to the opposite end(s).

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #38 on:** November 17, 2003, 08:20:08 am »

Wow, thanks Robin, that helps an awful lot!!!

u_rebelscum · « **Reply #39 on:** November 17, 2003, 08:38:09 am »

And daveb, I found a joystick USB interface card besides happs and yours: http://www.chproducts.com/oem/misc_usbkit.html

For a little background, CH Products makes industrial and retail joysticks. Some of the OEM joysticks it manufacturers for a few other companies that re-sell as retail. It used do arcade joysticks in very low volumes, including some of the "springsticks" used in some baseball, football (usa), bowling, and golf games;I believe one of the OEM joystick cases still in use was also used for those springsticks. It sells hall effect joysticks as part of it's industrial use line.


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