Spinner at 7th Button position? Anyone tried this?

[RyoriNoTetsujin]

As always, I've been fantasizing about fitting more playability in a smaller space. Lately I've been thinking about spinners.

Has anyone here ever installed a TurboTwist at or near the oft-argued "7th Button" position? See my crude diagram below for what I mean (S=spinner, natch):

 |----|     123
 | O |      456
 |----|   S

Seems to me that's a pretty good place for it. It doesn't block access to the joy or the buttons, and if you play the spinner left handed, you have access to those buttons as well.  Put a Tron stick to the right of your button array, and you've got a usable Tron setup (and, while not perfect, maybe a dual-joystick setup too?)

Anyway, just curious to see if anyone has installed a spinner in this way and what their thoughts were on how it worked for them.

[yotsuya]

I think that would just be too close. Inevitably, it will get in the way at some point.

[Jumpman64]

One concern would be if you play Defender since that is your optimal reverse button location.

[DaveMMR]

You should try it out on some scrap wood but a spinner is much larger than the size of a button so I can't imagine it'll fit it that exact position at all without blocking the buttons.

[RyoriNoTetsujin]

Sorry, I thought I was clear I didn't necessarily mean exactly at that position:

Has anyone here ever installed a TurboTwist at or near the oft-argued "7th Button" position?

Like yotsuya and DaveMMR said, it is probably too big for that specific spot, but I think with some fine tuning it could be functional, compact, comfortable, and not block the rest of the controls. I'm not suggesting this is something that'll fall perfectly in line with a SlagCoin template... but I'm thinking it can be done without too much deviation from one.

I'm just playing around with what appears to be a new-ish idea.  I think we can all agree there's a thin line between "reasonably broad functionality" and "fugly frankenpanel."  I'm more concerned about crossing over into that territory than I am about making this work.

I don't have a TurboTwist on-hand yet, but it definitely seems worth some prototyping if no one has already tried it...

[yotsuya]

Good job thinking out loud, but it's such an unnatural place for one that ultimately I don't think it would be very successful. Remember, there's a lot of wiring UNDER the panel in that area. A spinner would probably be too close to the joystick, if not the buttons. It's pretty cramped in that area just doing a SFII layout.

[PL1]

You should try it out on some scrap wood but a spinner is much larger than the size of a button so I can't imagine it'll fit it that exact position at all without blocking the buttons.

Depends on the size of the knob you install.

GGG Arcade Prime buttons - 1.275" surround

GGG TT2 Default - 1.325"


GGG Black Rubber knob - 1.32" top, 1.48" skirt 


As long as it's the TT2 (not the original Turbo Twist spinner -- shown below) you're talking about, the wiring isn't going to be a problem, but your right thumb might be bumping it unless you leave some room.


The wiring from the joystick shouldn't be a problem since the microswitch tabs that point toward the buttons are on the monitor side.


Scott

[DaveMMR]

Even if near it, and closer in size to an actual button, I still feel as if it'll be awkward. I dunno. You "twist" a knob, so your fingers are already kind of awkwardly close to the buttons your other hand has to work (unless you use the other set of buttons, if applicable). And its height blocks easy access to the mostly flat buttons.  Maybe if they were behind the buttons?

I think if you could make a test panel with it to see how it'll work out...  I'm going off what I'm seeing in my head.

[RyoriNoTetsujin]

As long as it's the TT2 (not the original Turbo Twist spinner -- shown below) you're talking about, the wiring isn't going to be a problem, but your right thumb might be bumping it unless you leave some room.

Really good point, I wasn't being specific enough there: Yes, I'm thinking TT2. The one that mounts in a standard button hole.

My layout on my panel is a standard SFII (straight button rows) layout. I'm thinking (if it is even necessary?) all I would need to do is separate the joy and buttons maaaybe 1/2"(?) to facilitate even better comfort/clearance. 

And its height blocks easy access to the mostly flat buttons.  Maybe if they were behind the buttons?

Not if it were below and to the left of the buttons (again, that 7th button-ISH area) Behind the buttons and I think you have joystick clearance issues (left handed, anyway.) 

I'm also wondering how many spinner games use more than one or two buttons anyway? I should bust out ROMlister for that...

I'll try to post a picture of what I'm thinking later this evening.

[Nephasth]

There's a CP in the Database that has a spinner in P2's 7th button hole. Looks like crap, and definitely looks like it would get in the way during regular play.

[PL1]

This may help you picture it better.

The wiring under the panel is a total non-issue if normal pushbuttons fit into the space.

TT2 shown with optional Energy Storage Cylinder installed. 
Buttons are GGG Arcade Primes.
Layout is from Slagcoin -- 36mm spacing.

If you move the spinner to the left or line it up with the top row, your right thumb won't be bumping into it.


Scott

EDIT: If you align with the top row, you'll still want to move it a little to the left to avoid your fingers brushing against button 1.

[yotsuya]

Sounds like you want to build it, so just build it. 

[RyoriNoTetsujin]

Now that I look...

Page 1 of the CP database, Timoe from back in the day (whatever happened to him?):



There are no new ideas.    It definitely looks to work better with an "ergo" button layout. Looks like he could've moved the left stick a little to the right and still got away with it, but it looks like he wanted the dual sticks to be mirrored on the panel.

Imagocrawlinnaholenow. Peace out, kids. 

[Nephasth]

This was the one I was thinking of...


Guess that would be the 8th button? Even worse.

[Xiaou2]

 The layout wont work because of the way the spinner sticks up.  It will get in the way of the buttons.  Also will
make it hard to operate the buttons and spinner at the same time.

 How about this instead:

   Mount your spinner Horizontally,  to the front of the control panel.   So it will be like a Stereo volume knob.
The gameplay should still be comfortable and easy to control... and you save panel space, as well as no interference with other
controllers.

 You could even angle the Front egde a little if you really wanted to.   You could also make a pull out spinner Drawers, where the spinner
is vertical, and pulls out of the front of the cabinet.

 Another more complex solution, is a spinner that sinks flush into the control panel surface when no in use.   And or a spinner that has a
button shaped top to it, and actually is designed so that it actually can be depressed and used as a button. (sliding assembly)   Then
again, rises up to spinner height when needed as a spinner.

 The horizontal spinners are the easiest..  and you could mount 2 or 3 of them for multiiplayer racing games.  (use flip down pedals on
the cabinet base)

 Pull out drawers would be pretty easy too... and could maintain the vertical feel.


 Lastly, you could also place the spinners to the upper left of the joysticks.  (diagonally)   This would allow left hand to use either the stick
or the spinner, without getting in the way of anything.  Only problem, is that it wouldnt allow use of both stick and spinner at the same
time.  Usually this isnt a problem anyways... as theres only like 2 games that would require that... and both of them need a trigger stick
anyways.  (though, you could use a pedal to fire... but I think your foot would fatigue way too quickly, especially in a stand-up cabinet)

 
 Mad Planets is worth a trigger stick and spinner combo.  Very awesome game
 Tron and Discs of Tron, both require trigger sticks as well.

 (Discs of Tron also requires an  up / down  spinner.   Tron used a special trigger stick that had a rubber guide to make diagonal
movement very difficult to do... so that the light cycle stages were zig-zag free.  I believe there are software alternatives to make it
playable with standard 8ways sticks however)
 
 Some other games used spinners that doubled as fire buttons.  Only one I can recall at the moment is Forgotten Worlds.  I believe theres
another game that used the same type of spinner... it involves some sort of alien theme.


 Alternative ideas:  Mount a horizontal spinner,  so that the wheel  is used like a vertical roller.  Search for the picture of
the Prototype  'Major Havok'  roller controller.     In this way, the dial would take less vertical room on the surface.  Sits much lower than
a typical spinner.

 However,  you would probably need some mods to the spinner to make it useable this way... such as use or a softer roller blade wheel top,  Or maybe just a rubber skinned dowel.  May also need to support both ends to prevent the shaft from bending.  A bearing + extended shaft on the non-encoder side would do it.