Real Instrument Panels

[twistedsymphony]

BM, you totally did it wrong.  You are supposed to "throw them away" at your home, on eBay or at the local swap meet. 

EXACTLY... that's how I got my first few arcade cabinets:

I worked as a repair tech at an arcade and was instructed to truck a bunch of machines to the dump...

[BadMouth]

BM, you totally did it wrong.  You are supposed to "throw them away" at your home, on eBay or at the local swap meet. 

EXACTLY... that's how I got my first few arcade cabinets:

I worked as a repair tech at an arcade and was instructed to truck a bunch of machines to the dump...

I brought home quite a bit of what I considered saleable and listed in on ebay after the place was shuttered and I was unemployed.
I was throwing stuff into a dumpster attached to the building.  I could only get away with taking so much to my car in a day.
The stuff I brought home was retail packaged end-consumer stuff.

However, I threw away cases and cases faces, pointers, mechs, etc for OEM clusters.
Had I known that a decade later I'd be tinkering with racing arcade cabinets......

I'm still using spools of solder that came from there.

I miss having a job where people actually make stuff.

[Howard_Casto]

Yeah this modern society where almost everybody seems to have a job as a glorified middle man kind of sucks.  I'm with you on that.  There's something to be said about just making a quality product and selling it because people need it. 

[twistedsymphony]

Yeah this modern society where almost everybody seems to have a job as a glorified middle man kind of sucks.  I'm with you on that.  There's something to be said about just making a quality product and selling it because people need it. 

I can't argue with you there... I've always tried to work somewhere where I actually felt like I was doing something with a direct end product.

These days I work for an aerospace bearing manufacturer writing software... nothing I write leaves the company but my customers are essentially the engineers here so it's nice to be able to communicate face to face with the people I'm actually developing for.... though it also means that if anything goes wrong they know where to find me 

Unfortunately, aside from being familiar with a few languages none of what I do at work translates into being useful for working on stuff like MAME or other emulators.

[Howard_Casto]

Well, I always say... you don't have to be a rocket scientist to work on MAME, but fortunately we've got two or three hanging around the forums just in case. 

Literally you are like the 5th or 6th person over the years that I know of that has been on this forum that works in aerospace, even if you design software. 

[twistedsymphony]

Well, I always say... you don't have to be a rocket scientist to work on MAME, but fortunately we've got two or three hanging around the forums just in case. 

Literally you are like the 5th or 6th person over the years that I know of that has been on this forum that works in aerospace, even if you design software. 

I actually have a degree in Mechanical Engineering from Rensselaer, my programming knowledge is mostly self taught (I did take a couple of classes on it on college "for fun"  )  my electrical knowledge is 100% self-taught.

I like programming because most engineering work can be soul-crushingly tedious. In the bearing world it's like doing the same set of math problems over an over again just with different starting variables... at least with programming I get to develop new apps all the time and I'm always trying out new techniques or adding fancy new features.

As for Arcade machines... I think us engineering types just like to tinker. I'm big into car modification too and there are A LOT of aerospace engineers in that hobby as well.

[Howard_Casto]

Well my strange medical stuff has left me a bit out of sorts so I'm just now starting to get back to this stuff.  This is probably more Outrun related but....

One of the things I could work on while I was more heavily medicated was outrun radio.  While the lag is simply too great for a speedo, the iDisplay method works great for a radio, which doesn't really have to be in real time.

Check it out:

[Xiaou2]

Im not a huge fan of video display for mechanical gauges.  I really love the analog nature of real gauges.

 
 However, a compromise would be a gauge that looked nearly indistinguishable from the real deal.

 Maybe if you used a half-silvered mirror that has a Display under it.. and the gauge face behind it.   Show a black background which will become transparent.. with the Red Needle graphic.   The Needle will appear to float above the gauge face.

 Or you could just use an LCD coupled with a front face mirror at 45 degrees, to show the gauges indirectly.  At least with them being indirect, and with distortions from glass lens (as a sort of bezel)  from the gauge face,  ... it may appear less like a display...  especially if you use a good photograph(s)  rather than making some brand new looking vector / 3d model crud.

[Howard_Casto]

Yeah an lcd for the gages is a hard sell for me.  I'm just exploring all options atm.  It'd be nice if there was some sort of compromise. 

The only thing about mechanical gages that I don't like is the fact that I can't adjust the scale.  If I put a 220mph gage in there then I'm stuck with it, even when playing an arcade racer that doesn't go much beyond 100 mph.  It's not a huge deal for a tacho though... those generally are all in the same range. 

As I've been going over in the thread, the main problem with any solution is space.  Arcade dash boards are around half scale, so it's hard to find anything that'll fit period.  I found lots of nice motorcycle gages, but they use the old school "spin a wire" design so that'd be hard to implement.  Ironically my Grandma's old 99 Ford Taurus has a really nice gage cluster and it's very compact,I had to replace the speed sensor as well, so I know it's digital, but all the graphics would have to be scrapped as it only goes up to 100 mph. 

[twistedsymphony]

Ironically my Grandma's old 99 Ford Taurus has a really nice gage cluster and it's very compact,I had to replace the speed sensor as well, so I know it's digital, but all the graphics would have to be scrapped as it only goes up to 100 mph. 

it looks like the SHO trim cluster goes to 150



Honestly most non-sports cars only go up to 120 or 140... and sports cars rarely have speedos that go above 160 or 180

generally the speedo wont go much past 10 or so MPH over the cars top speed.

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PRO TIP: the UK typically uses MPH on their speedometers as well and many of their speedos read at higher speeds than US Models... I swapped my USDM Nissan cluster out for a UKDM cluster from the same car because the UK cluster reads to 180 while the US cluster only went to 140.

IDEA: Clusters from Germany or Japan (or anywhere else outside of the UK or US) will read in kph... since a kilometer is shorter than a mile (~64MPH = 100KPH) their cluster will have substantially higher numbers.. sports cars with KPH speedos will generally top out over 200KPH. Since you'll be controlling the driver you can mapp the in-game MPH to read the "number" on the kph speedo.

[Howard_Casto]

Yeah I'm wondering how bad it'd be to swap out the graphics on one of these.  Obviously you could just print some out and swap it that way, but I don't know how the lighting would work...  is that stuff made out of translate or what?

[twistedsymphony]

on some clusters it's literally impossible to remove the needle... remember that 240sx cluster I mentioned with the broken needle return spring in the speedometer... yeah, I broke it trying to remove the needle.

Most cluster I've seen are plastic with the numbers and masking printed on the back and another mask and additional printing on the front.

There are companies that make EL back lit overlays for clusters for people who want to change the color and font style... and I'd doubt any of them would be willing to re-index it for you.... not to mention it's unlikely any of them even make something like that for a tarus.

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you could always light it from the front... I have a 99 Subaru Legacy and it does have some back-lighting but it's primarily lit front the front via 2 lights mounted in the hood in front of the gauges (but behind the glass... still part of the cluster assembly) I had done some modifications to mine and snapped a picture:



for reference this is (essentially) what it looked like before I modified it (not my cluster, since this one has a European kph Speedo):

I got rid of the car icon top center, got rid of the PRNDL lights between the gauges, added a set of polished aluminum trim rings around the gauges and swapped the originally green front lighting for "natural" uncolored lamps (I liked the soft amber tone as opposed to a harsh white that an LED would produce).

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BUT this brings me back to my other point about KPH clusters... that German cluster above goes to 180KPH... there's no reason you couldn't black out the little "km/h" logo and then just change the signal to read up to 180mph instead.

[Howard_Casto]

Oh I'm not hung up on the Taurus specifically, I just thought it had a very clean "arcadey" design.  It seems like half the clusters on the markets have 50 do-dads randomly sprinkled over the dash... I like rpm's on the left, mph on the right and little else. 

I guess the smart thing to do then would be to pick a cluster that they are also selling replacement needles for on eBay.  Then, in theory at least they could be removed.  My ears are still giving me heck so I looked through a bunch of clusters ebay last night.... They had quite a few in the 20 dollar range, for various makes and models and that's with free shipping + buy it now turned on.  I guess if you wanted to get really cheap (I'm not even that cheap) you could get them for far less.  You've got to watch for pics of the back though.  I was amazed at how many mid 90's era cars still used a cable for the tacho. 

For the most part the back-lighting just lights up the tick marks primarily doesn't it?  I mean I know there are "hidden" lamps for turn signal and what-not, but I wouldn't want to change those anyway.  Maybe do like you are suggesting but with uv-reactive paint?  Then it wouldn't outright look like a spotlight is shining on it, and yet the numbers would appear to glow. 

I've been piddling around with concepts for weeks now.  I think I need to pull the trigger, pick up something to play with and see what I can come up with.

[Howard_Casto]

Check this one out:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/04-06-Volvo-S40-Instrument-Cluster-Speedometer-30728646-OEM-Used-1729-/291147987696?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43c9c5baf0&vxp=mtr

I would definitely want a better deal on one... I'd probably go for a junky used version, but that's the kind of cluster a person would want.  It's really simple and it looks like each portion of it is a separate module.  So you could build your dash and then put the gages in it instead of building a dash around the cluster. 

[Howard_Casto]

Ok I've got a couple of choice selections from the bargain bin, maybe you guys can chime in on any electrical concerns... I'll probably order one tonight or tomorrow. 

Here's one from a Sebring:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/96-97-98-CHRYSLER-SEBRING-SPEEDOMETER-CLUSTER-INSTRUMENT-GAUGES-142247-MILES-/310549617006?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item484e33196e&vxp=mtr

What I like about it are the fully round dials.  I'm going to probably do a vintage styled dash.... you know wood with the gages as inserts, so that would be easier to mod as I have a template.  No cabling on the back though, so it might be a pain in the butt to interface with.

Here's a Saturn:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/95-96-SATURN-SL-SPEEDOMETER-CLUSTER-INSTRUMENT-GAUGES-140953-MILES-SSZ01-/260751533890?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cb600a742&vxp=mtr

Very clean, and it has the wires this time so that's nice.  Also you'll notice the curve at the bottom is very similar to the profile of a Logitech wheel... so a person could probably just bolt it directly above if they wanted to get lazy.

Speaking of easy to implement.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/00-01-02-03-PONTIAC-GRAND-AM-SPEEDOMETER-CLUSTER-INSTRUMENT-GAUGES-DP1462-DA-/310541720506?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item484dba9bba&vxp=mtr

Very modern, probably not for me BUT....check out the back of that thing.  It looks like each gage has a single two-wire connector unless I'm looking at it wrong.  That probably means that a 5v pwm would run anything on it, which would make things really simple electrically. 

Here's another, very 80's not for me BUT I could see it making an awesome theme to build a cab around.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/89-90-91-92-93-94-95-MAZDA-MPV-SPEEDOMETER-CLUSTER-TACH-INSTRUMENT-GAUGES-/310007038184?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item482ddc00e8&vxp=mtr

And here is a Taurus one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/96-99-FORD-TAURUS-MERCURY-SABLE-INSTRUMENT-SPEEDOMETER-CLUSTER-F6DF-10B885-AA-/371061356973?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5664faf9ad&vxp=mtr

Normally it wouldn't be worth mentioning, but see that board in the lower right on the back?  I know for a fact that's the amp/calibration board on those cars.  It converts the 5 v signals throughout the engine into 12 for the panel and has some minor adjustments as well, so again, I'll be it would be easy to interface with.

Now this dodge is my favorite:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CL044-1998-1999-2000-2001-2002-DODGE-CONCORDE-SPEEDOMETER-CLUSTER-UK-MILES-/271443870280?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f3350c248&vxp=mtr

It's kind of cheesy, somebody has obviously put white stickers on the thing, but that is the look I'm going for.. white dials with chrome trim.  I just have electrical concerns... those connectors look kind of funky. 

Obviously there are dozens upon dozens of styles out there, I'm just trying to narrow it down.  Many of the examples I posted are automatic transmission gages, so I'd want manual anyway for the gear indicator and over-rev, but at least now I know what models to search for. 

[twistedsymphony]

Sebring cluster - notice the back the speedo and tach both screw into the circuit "sheet" this would make it a prime candidate for removing the gauges from the cluster and mounting them wherever you want.... also no need to source a connector since you can just use a ring terminal

Saturn Cluster - the picture of the back is too small to get any idea of what the electronics are like or if you could remove the individual gauges, pigtails are good and it looks like it has front illumination.


Grand am cluster - I'm honestly not sure if those are connectors on the back of the cluster... the connectors might be on the top (which isn't pictured) this is a really weird shaped cluster too I would avoid it, it looks like more of a hassle than it's worth.


Mazda MPV cluster - this has a mechanical speedo so it's not an option right out of the gate regardless of it's other merits.


Tarus cluster - seems to be the smallest cluster of those listed which is good, the design doesn't look like you'd be able to remove the gauges individually so you'd have to use the cluster as a whole... Personally I hate the PRNDL shift lights but you could probably block them out.


Dodge Cluster - hard to see what's going on electronically since it's all covered up but there are real metal pins for the connectors so you could plug in with small spade connectors or solder directly. nice looking cluster if you're going for a retro look

[Howard_Casto]

I think I might give the dodge a shot... found this video:



Notice that the mileage and gear indicator are fully digital.  On the one hand that kind of sucks on the gear indicator... I'd probably have to scrap it and make a lamp array, but I could potentially display anything where the mileage goes. 

Then again that might make it really hard to interface with so I dunno. 

[twistedsymphony]

I think I might give the dodge a shot... found this video:



Notice that the mileage and gear indicator are fully digital.  On the one hand that kind of sucks on the gear indicator... I'd probably have to scrap it and make a lamp array, but I could potentially display anything where the mileage goes. 

Then again that might make it really hard to interface with so I dunno. 

chances are those displays will not be controllable via the external connections.

Mileage particularly is usually calculated from the speedometer readings and then stored in the cluster itself (most people seem to assume it's control by the computer.. it's not) ... usually with some security measures to prevent tampering too which can make it nearly impossible to play around with.

unless you desoldered the display itself from the rest of the electronics and built your own circuit to control the display directly it's not likely you're going to be custom displaying anything on it.

as for the gear indicator there will probably be discrete inputs for each gear... so there's that.

See if you can find a FSM (factory service manual) for that car online, they'll typically have wiring diagrams so you can check out how the cluster is actually wired before you drop any money.

[Howard_Casto]

Well there are only two to three chips/protocols still used in alpha-numeric displays these days, mostly because alpha numeric displays are so rare... so I was thinking it would be possible directly at the display, similar to how we used to do it back in the day with those little serial displays and the parallel port.  That sort of thing is uncertain of course, I'm just hopeful. 

I'm going to have to hold off anyway.  I could order one but I won't be doing anything anytime soon.  Got off my meds Thursday, by Saturday I felt like a dump truck had fell on my head, went all over town to find something actually open on the weekend besides the emergency room, because apparently you aren't supposed to get sick on a Saturday in this country.  They've got me on meds again, but basically said they probably wouldn't do any good.  I'm going to try and get an appointment to a ear/nose/throat specialist tomorrow. 

For whatever reason my head isn't hurting in this particular instance, so I'm wide awake but I doubt that'll last long. 

[twistedsymphony]

Well there are only two to three chips/protocols still used in alpha-numeric displays these days, mostly because alpha numeric displays are so rare... so I was thinking it would be possible directly at the display, similar to how we used to do it back in the day with those little serial displays and the parallel port.  That sort of thing is uncertain of course, I'm just hopeful. 

I'm going to have to hold off anyway.  I could order one but I won't be doing anything anytime soon.  Got off my meds Thursday, by Saturday I felt like a dump truck had fell on my head, went all over town to find something actually open on the weekend besides the emergency room, because apparently you aren't supposed to get sick on a Saturday in this country.  They've got me on meds again, but basically said they probably wouldn't do any good.  I'm going to try and get an appointment to a ear/nose/throat specialist tomorrow. 

For whatever reason my head isn't hurting in this particular instance, so I'm wide awake but I doubt that'll last long. 

Ah yes the Hitachi HD44780 protocol... I used to love playing around with those displays... I still have a few. I've even got one setup on a Raspberry Pi to NetBoot Sega NAOMI games  (info here if anyone is interested: http://capane-us.github.io/piforcetools/)

I know what you mean about not wanting to buy until you're ready to start playing around with it... buying parts too early is a bad habbit of mine, enough such that I have boxes and boxes of parts all over my garage and my office for projects where I had an idea and bought stuff and then was too busy with something else by the time it arrived so it never got used. 

In any case good luck with the medical stuff... I swear most doctors don't seem to know what they're doing. I don't usually go to the doctor unless it's something I consider serious and the last 6 or so times over as many years they just scratch their head pick a drug seemingly at random and it doesn't seem to do anything to actually improve the situation...   

If I had that kind of results at my job I'd be canned... you'd think with as many thousands of years we've been studying the human body we'd have a better grasp as to how to fix things.

[Howard_Casto]

Yeah I'm up and about (for now) and I've been looking through my arcade pile.  Dear god I've got to get rid of some of this stuff.  I've got 4 death race wheels... I'm thinking of constructing an under-dash assembly to use one of them as a optical wheel.  If I do that and make a removable hub for the FF wheel that should allow me to play offroad and pole position as well.  I've gotta go to Lowes this evening anyway, so I thought I'd look for suitable bearings while I'm there. 

Yeah the doctor's are particularly frustrating.  I think I'd be more sympathetic if they actually done something besides stare at me for a minute and get out the prescription pad.  I've been 4 times now... they haven't taken a single culture or done a single scan.  It's the equivalent of trying to fix a pc by randomly buying parts off the internet without ever bothering to open the case and look for something obvious.  I called to get a referral from my primary physician yesterday, because apparently the medical industry thinks I'm not capable of the judgment to go to a specialist when needed. They informed me that he wasn't in but they'd give him the message.  So at the rate I'm going this time next spring I might get to see someone who actually knows what they are doing.

[lamprey]

Granted it's not available yet, just a interesting twist on instrumentation. Who knows, it might be something that someone can do something cool with someday.. 

Sharp Develops Free-Form Display

http://sharp-world.com/corporate/news/140618.html

[Xiaou2]

After seeing some of the Digital displays on the Supercars... I might be kinda changing my opinion of the non mechanical speedo.

 Very cool looking graphical color changes and animations...

 But as said before...  I think with some high res photos, and a decent quality display.. one could make some really realistic looking dashes.

[Fursphere]

Sorry to bump an old thread - but did anyone ever get any of these ideas actually working in their cabs?