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Author Topic: Crop image with Groovymame/blurry and bent edges?  (Read 2896 times)

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emuola

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Crop image with Groovymame/blurry and bent edges?
« on: March 06, 2013, 02:12:39 am »
I decided to make this a new thread, since this is a bit different than my post in Latest GA thread...

I'm "suffering" from bent right edge/blurry edges with my M3129. I know that the blurriness is kinda a feature with these modern tri-modes, so I've set advmenu to crop the image a bit so that the names of the games are more readable (near the edges). Is this possible with Groovymame also?

Regarding the bending/squashing I suppose I should fiddle with the modelines, but I really don't have a clue what numbers to adjust and I'm afraid I'll blow up my shiny new M3129 if I start an trial-and-error -crusade myself :(

Here's a picture, the bending/squashing/blurriness is clearly visible.



Here's the monitor section from mame.ini:

Code: [Select]
modeline                  1
monitor   custom
orientation               horizontal
connector                 auto
interlace                 1
doublescan                1
cleanstretch              1
changeres                 1
powerstrip                0
lock_system_modes         1
lock_unsupported_modes    1
refresh_dont_care         0
dotclock_min              0
sync_refresh_tolerance    2.0
frame_delay               0
lcd_range                 auto
crt_range0                15250-16500, 40-80, 4.187, 4.688, 4.719, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 1, 1, 224, 288, 448, 576
crt_range1                23900-24420, 40-80, 2.910, 3.000, 4.440, 0.451, 0.164, 1.048, 1, 1, 320, 384, 0, 0
crt_range2                31000-32000, 40-80, 0.636, 3.813, 1.906, 0.318, 0.064, 1.048, 1, 1, 480, 512, 0, 0
crt_range3                auto
crt_range4                auto
crt_range5                auto
crt_range6                auto
crt_range7                auto
crt_range8                auto
crt_range9                auto


« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 02:14:20 am by emuola »

Calamity

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Re: Crop image with Groovymame/blurry and bent edges?
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2013, 12:11:14 pm »
Hi emuola,

This doesn't seem like a problem you may solve with modelines. It might be just the normal geometry of your monitor (I've seen much worse cases). However you may try increasing the horizontal front porch (first of the three horizontal values) a little bit, that will make the right border bigger. Then correct back with the monitor's horizontal centering control. If that doesn't fix it, then it's unlikely we can do anything from the software side.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

emuola

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Re: Crop image with Groovymame/blurry and bent edges?
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2013, 02:02:37 pm »
Hi emuola,

This doesn't seem like a problem you may solve with modelines. It might be just the normal geometry of your monitor (I've seen much worse cases). However you may try increasing the horizontal front porch (first of the three horizontal values) a little bit, that will make the right border bigger. Then correct back with the monitor's horizontal centering control. If that doesn't fix it, then it's unlikely we can do anything from the software side.

Thanks again Calamity, it helped a lot :) I don't kow what is "little", originally the horozontal front porch was 2.187 and I gradually increased it all the way up to 9.187. Now the right edge is almost perfect  :notworthy:

One more thing about the resolutions. I tested Bomb Jack (I just luv that game...) and I dare to argue that the image is now (with the latest livecd) much narrower?! This *can* be only my imagination playing tricks on me, but is there some option in mame.ini that affects this?

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Re: Crop image with Groovymame/blurry and bent edges?
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2013, 02:14:27 pm »
Well, 9.187 is much more than I would have used but if it does the job, there's no objection. I guess it must be creating a huge right border, so I wonder if that's not the cause for bombjack altered geometry. GM calculates vertical games with the proper geometry by default, it's only that we're used to play these games wider than they really were, just measure the proportions if you don't believe me. Anyway, there's an option in gasetup you can play with, named "Force vertical games aspect", this will allow you to adjust the aspect from the default 3:4 all the way up to full screen.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

emuola

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Re: Crop image with Groovymame/blurry and bent edges?
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2013, 02:56:42 pm »
Well, 9.187 is much more than I would have used but if it does the job, there's no objection. I guess it must be creating a huge right border, so I wonder if that's not the cause for bombjack altered geometry. GM calculates vertical games with the proper geometry by default, it's only that we're used to play these games wider than they really were, just measure the proportions if you don't believe me. Anyway, there's an option in gasetup you can play with, named "Force vertical games aspect", this will allow you to adjust the aspect from the default 3:4 all the way up to full screen.

Ok, I'll take your word concerning the correct geometry ;D The Bomb Jack looked the same before I increased the front porch value. I tried to change the force vertical games aspect just for fun, but it does not seem to affect Bomb Jack/Frogger etc at all?! The screen looks always exactly the same. This is however only a minor annoyance.

Here's a picture, does it look normal to you?

« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 03:17:39 pm by emuola »

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Re: Crop image with Groovymame/blurry and bent edges?
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2013, 04:01:34 pm »
This is how it looks here.

Notice the bounding box in the nag screen, use that as a reference. If it's not filling the screen then the game will be out of proportions. This can be due to abnormally big borders. Notice how in my system I have some borders too. This is because when rising the hfreq to 16.7 kHz in order to get 256p@60Hz the scan width gets necessarily narrowed.

You can compensate for this with the "Force vertical games aspect option". Working fine here. Just test the "square" setting, that should make a noticeable difference. You can manually edit vertical.ini in your home folder (or ./ini, can't remind) with your custom aspect ratio, in case you need better granularity.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

emuola

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Re: Crop image with Groovymame/blurry and bent edges?
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2013, 03:46:21 am »
Thanks calamity for the example. Here's my nag screen with the default setting.



Appears that it's not "full" -> because of the borders, right (resolution 400 x 256)? So, basically when I have to increase the front porch (and right border) I practically make it impossible to user the default setting for vertical games "size"? I tried setting the vertical games option to "square" and indeed Bomb jack now looks like I supposed it to look like. I noticed the resolution in the nag screen now was 304 x 256. The nag screen looked a bit "blurrier" than the picture above, but the actual game looked very crisp :)

*edit*

just realised my example is the gameinfo and not the nag screen. I'm not sure if there's adifference regarding this matter. I'll test more after work

*/edit*


*edit2*

the gameinfo screen apears to be the same size as the nag screen, original picture above is a valid example.
*/edit2*

« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 08:39:08 am by emuola »

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Re: Crop image with Groovymame/blurry and bent edges?
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2013, 11:47:51 am »
That's it. GM assumes the white box fills the screen, and calculates the aspect  ratio for that case. You're using so huge borders (I'd rather go with some distorted borders instead of that, if you ask me), that your actual box is square, that's fooling GM. That's why when you force the aspect ratio to "square" (this is like telling GM that your monitor is actually square!) then the right proportions are obtained. Blurry text is a consequence of using what MAME considers odd ratios, but don't worry about that because the scaling in the game will always be integer.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

emuola

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Re: Crop image with Groovymame/blurry and bent edges?
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2013, 12:34:06 pm »
That's it. GM assumes the white box fills the screen, and calculates the aspect  ratio for that case. You're using so huge borders (I'd rather go with some distorted borders instead of that, if you ask me), that your actual box is square, that's fooling GM. That's why when you force the aspect ratio to "square" (this is like telling GM that your monitor is actually square!) then the right proportions are obtained. Blurry text is a consequence of using what MAME considers odd ratios, but don't worry about that because the scaling in the game will always be integer.

Ok, thanks again for explaining me things I don't understand :) One thing came to my mind: When I first installed GA, I vaguely remember setting the horizontal size (from the monitor panel) a lot smaller, because otherwise the 31Khz mode would not fit at all. Could it be that I actually should increase the horizontal size from the monitor panel (to fill the whole screen in 15 Khz) and then adjust the 31Khz modeline (to make it fit the screen)? Or is this even possible?

I'll try to set the monitor to the "m3129-preset" and see if the borders are smaller :)

*edit*
Changed the monitor setting to m3129 and the borders got smaller :) I then set the monitor in a way that the nag screen would fill appr the whole screen and indeed the Bomb jack looks good  :applaud: Also MK1, MK2 Outrun etc is very good, display being almost perfect (not 100% centered but very close). The only problem now is that advmenu (set to vga) is waaayyy to left (appr 1/8 of the screen). I can adjust the modeline in mame.ini, but they don't affect advmenu, do they? There were some changes in the latest version of the live-cd regarding this, but...
*/edit*

« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 01:11:19 pm by emuola »

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Re: Crop image with Groovymame/blurry and bent edges?
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2013, 01:26:55 pm »
You have to add the same crt_specs you use in mame.ini to switchres.conf. Then run the video config gasetup option again and the modeline for advmenu will be recalculated.

EDIT: Well actually the gasetup option won't take your custom monitor settings but you get the idea: you need to create the 648x480 modeline with your custom settings, then add it to xorg.conf.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 01:29:07 pm by Calamity »
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

emuola

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Re: Crop image with Groovymame/blurry and bent edges?
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2013, 02:26:26 pm »
You have to add the same crt_specs you use in mame.ini to switchres.conf. Then run the video config gasetup option again and the modeline for advmenu will be recalculated.

EDIT: Well actually the gasetup option won't take your custom monitor settings but you get the idea: you need to create the 648x480 modeline with your custom settings, then add it to xorg.conf.

Ok, here's what my /etc/X11/xorg.conf has now...

Code: [Select]
# No video= in kernel command line, assuming multisync SVGA
Do I just add the line there, or is there another xorg.conf somewhere?

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Re: Crop image with Groovymame/blurry and bent edges?
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2013, 02:31:01 pm »
Ah... you didn't run the Video Setup in gasetup did you? Try running and enter Monitor Type, then select your monitor.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

NightSprinter

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Re: Crop image with Groovymame/blurry and bent edges?
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2013, 02:46:28 pm »
Huh.. so it would be the same "crt_specs0" line as in ume.ini?
It doesn't matter how bad things are, it'll work out in the end.

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Re: Crop image with Groovymame/blurry and bent edges?
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2013, 02:53:11 pm »
Huh.. so it would be the same "crt_specs0" line as in ume.ini?

Yeah since we patched it switchres.conf now uses the same crt_specs format that GM, this is to create your desktop modeline easily with the same specs GM uses.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

emuola

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Re: Crop image with Groovymame/blurry and bent edges?
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2013, 03:10:22 pm »
Huh.. so it would be the same "crt_specs0" line as in ume.ini?

Yeah since we patched it switchres.conf now uses the same crt_specs format that GM, this is to create your desktop modeline easily with the same specs GM uses.

The modeline in xorg.conf currently is like this:

Code: [Select]
"648x480x60.00" 25.452000 648 664 760 808 480 490 492 525 +HSync +VSync
Can I really replace that with something like this?

Code: [Select]
31000-32000, 40-80, 0.636, 3.813, 1.906, 0.318, 0.064, 1.048, 1, 1, 480, 512, 0, 0

Calamity

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Re: Crop image with Groovymame/blurry and bent edges?
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2013, 03:20:29 pm »
NO!!!

Modelines and crt_specs are different things.

crt_specs are the *specs* that the *modelines* must meet.

Add those specs to switchres.conf, set the monitor type defined there as 'custom'.

Then from command line run "switchres 648 480 60", this will calculate and print a new modeline according to your specs.

Copy that modeline into xorg.conf.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

NightSprinter

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Re: Crop image with Groovymame/blurry and bent edges?
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2013, 03:38:38 pm »
Thanks for the info, Calamity.  I'll go punch those lines into switchres.conf right away and let ya know how it goes.  Sorry for the slight highjack.

[Edit]

Hmm, apparently I get
Code: [Select]
Error process terminated with signal 11.
/home/arcade/switchres.conf: Config Invalid syntax: 'crt_range0    15750-16250,45-80,3.500,4.700,5.800,0.062,0.062,0.740,0,0,160,288,448,488'
/home/arcade/switchres.conf: Config Invalid syntax: 'crt_range1    48363-50000,50-61,0.369,2.092,2.462,0.062,0.124,0.600,0,0,768,800,0,0'
[custom] "a2600" horizontal 176x223@59.923 (0.789) --> 176x224@59.923 (0.789)[/code/ when running something via AdvMenu+.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 05:06:15 pm by NightSprinter »
It doesn't matter how bad things are, it'll work out in the end.

emuola

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Re: Crop image with Groovymame/blurry and bent edges?
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2013, 03:47:50 pm »
NO!!!

Modelines and crt_specs are different things.

crt_specs are the *specs* that the *modelines* must meet.

Add those specs to switchres.conf, set the monitor type defined there as 'custom'.

Then from command line run "switchres 648 480 60", this will calculate and print a new modeline according to your specs.

Copy that modeline into xorg.conf.

Ok! I got switchrs to calculate, but it seems I'll have to spend some time finding the correct values. Based on your earlier advice, Calamity, I suppose that whe I want to move the picture to the right, I should decrease the first value and increase the second:

crt_range2 31000-32000, 40-80, 0.636, 3.813, 1.906, 0.318, 0.064, 1.048, 1, 1, 480, 512, 0, 0

But can the first value/or any of the values be negative?

Btw, is everything ok, if/when my display settings are in a way that the bios post screen is also way too left?! (I guess the bios screen is also a standard vga) I don't mind the bios screen being left, but I just wanna be sure that  there's, no fundamental problem here.

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Re: Crop image with Groovymame/blurry and bent edges?
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2013, 07:47:44 am »
But can the first value/or any of the values be negative?

No, all values must be greater than zero.

Quote
Btw, is everything ok, if/when my display settings are in a way that the bios post screen is also way too left?! (I guess the bios screen is also a standard vga) I don't mind the bios screen being left, but I just wanna be sure that  there's, no fundamental problem here.

Well you should manage to find a combination of both crt_specs and monitor settings where all ranges are aligned and the bios screen is sort of aligned too. This may require some effort and iterations but eventually you'll find the spot.

Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

emuola

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Re: Crop image with Groovymame/blurry and bent edges?
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2013, 10:19:04 am »
But can the first value/or any of the values be negative?

No, all values must be greater than zero.

Quote
Btw, is everything ok, if/when my display settings are in a way that the bios post screen is also way too left?! (I guess the bios screen is also a standard vga) I don't mind the bios screen being left, but I just wanna be sure that  there's, no fundamental problem here.

Well you should manage to find a combination of both crt_specs and monitor settings where all ranges are aligned and the bios screen is sort of aligned too. This may require some effort and iterations but eventually you'll find the spot.

I think I've nailed it  :cheers: At least I'm very close. Now the only minor thing would be to make 15Khz resolutions a bit wider/31Khz resolutions a bit narrower (now the 15khz nag screen does not fill the screen completely, but is close/31Khz screen is almost too wide). What values should I change in the modelines?

Calamity

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Re: Crop image with Groovymame/blurry and bent edges?
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2013, 12:07:42 pm »
- Increasing both horizontal borders*, makes the visible raster narrower.
- Decreasing both horizontal borders*, makes the visible raster wider.

*horizontal borders = horizontal front & back porches.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

emuola

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Re: Crop image with Groovymame/blurry and bent edges?
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2013, 01:01:00 pm »
- Increasing both horizontal borders*, makes the visible raster narrower.
- Decreasing both horizontal borders*, makes the visible raster wider.

*horizontal borders = horizontal front & back porches.

 :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
 :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:

Calamity, you're the man!  :notworthy:

WORKS!

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Re: Crop image with Groovymame/blurry and bent edges?
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2013, 05:04:13 pm »
I'm glad that it worked. Once you're happy with your settings, post the whole presets here, they can be useful to someone else.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi