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Author Topic: New to groovymame - some questions  (Read 2899 times)

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ckong

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New to groovymame - some questions
« on: February 24, 2013, 11:31:49 am »
I have a XP32 SP2 setup with an onboard Radeon HD 4250 video chipset with (probably) an ATI mobility driver, that I just replaced with a patched recent fullsize Catalyst driver. Unfortunately my Hardware doesn't let me install the (patched) CRT emudriver, which is a pity (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,130577.msg1337816.html#msg1337816). So, although I will not be able to use the full potention of Groovymame, I still want to give it a go. Mainly because of the nice way switchres is incorporated with great output info (If I only would understand that info  ??? ). I am using soft15K by the way.

I have some questions about Groovymame though:

1. What does the option 'menu' under 'windows video options' do?

2. I am going to use my groovymame setup in a NAC, with a Nanao MS9 29" vertical orientated monitor, so In the 'core switchres options' I have as a monitor 'generic_15' and orientation 'vertical'. Is that correct?

3. I did find the monitor specs for my Nanao MS9 29"monitor:

NANAO MS9-29 (retrorepair)
monitor_specs0    15450.00-16050.00, 55-65, 3.91, 4.70, 6.85, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 288, 448
monitor_specs1    23900.00-24900.00, 55-65, 2.91, 3.00, 4.44, 0.451, 0.164, 1.048, 0, 0, 480, 768

I am only going to play 15K games, but how do I incorportae the info of the first line in the mame.ini? and do I have to set my monitor type on arcade_15 if i use these monitor specs?

4. I have vsync issues with a lot of games that do play fine in Cabmame (where I use game.ini's). But not with all games, dkong for instance plays fine in Grooymame (full screen) and in Cabmame (without game.ini, for some reason not fullscreen though). Galaga however plays fine in Cabmame (with game.ini with 304x240 resolution), but the game is out of sync in Groovymame. Obviously because Groovymame doesn't pick the most correct modeline. Why is that ? I attached the game reports of dkong, galaga and my mame.ini. Could someoneplease look at them?

5. In the atached game reports are all the modelines listed that I have available, installed through soft15K. all 320x... are not working though. Why not? Games like ddonpach play on 320x240 and in Cabmame I force them to play in 321x240 (via the game.ini), but I don't want to use game.ini's in Groovymame. How do I get the resolution of 320x... available? or can I modify the mame.xml file so that Groovymame picks 321x240?

for the record, I am doing all my tests on a regular Barco 15K monitor because that is physically easier.

Thanks for your time to read this lenghty post.

Calamity

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Re: New to groovymame - some questions
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2013, 12:58:39 pm »
Hi ckong,

There's a preset ready for your Nanao monitor so you don't need to use monitor_specs. Read the first post in the main GM's for information. Use that one instead of generic_15 (although I believe arcade_15 would be good enough if you are not playing 25 kHz games).

Your logs look fine, so the modelines picked are not the problem. You probably need to tweak your vertical frequency potentiometer. Bear in mind galaga runs at 60.61 Hz, and GM is applying the real native frequency. On the other hand, CabMAME must be just picking the default 60 Hz precalculated modeline.

I don't see why your 320x240 (or 321) shouldn't work, could you post a donpachi log?
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

ckong

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Re: New to groovymame - some questions
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2013, 02:26:53 pm »
I did a small test with Galaga. In the windows modeline editor I have this modeline for the 288x240 resolution: Modeline "288x240_60 15,9KHz 60,0Hz" 7.120 288 332 392 448 240 243 246 265  -hsync -vsync, which gives a crsip and stable 288x240 picture when tested in the editor.

When I start Galaga in Groovymame, swithcres wants to switch to 288x240@60.61. And I expect the game to play fine, but instead there is a fast scrolling out of sync pattern. Why could that be? I changed the modline in the editor somewhat from 60,0Hz to 60,6Hz, which also gives a stable image when tested in the modeline editor. So why is Galaga out of sync in Groovymame? I again attached the switchres logfile, because I changed the monior type to MS929, which is my actual arcade monitor.

Again, I am testing all this on a Barco 15K monitor 9I don't want to sit in a cold shed for hours, my office is much more comfortable  :) )

One thing that I noticed in the attached file is that says that the monitor oriention is horizontal, although in the mame.ini core switchres options I have it on vertical.

(I can still play the game in cabmame, with a 304x240 resolution through a game.ini).

Calamity

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Re: New to groovymame - some questions
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2013, 04:52:28 am »
One thing that I noticed in the attached file is that says that the monitor oriention is horizontal, although in the mame.ini core switchres options I have it on vertical.

Yes, I guess that's kind of confusing. It means that the *effective* orientation is not rotated (vertical game + vertical monitor -> horizontal resolution) but I should clarify the logs.

Your log file looks perfectly fine, but for the part where it says it's running full speed! This means GM is not receiving proper v-sync events, which is too bad.

You just assumed that a recent Catalyst version would work with dynamic resolutions and this is probably not true. Winmodelines and Soft-15kHz require a system restart to apply changes. GM does this on the fly, but this only seems to work with older drivers.

With a bit of work you could probably get the CRT Emudriver 9.3 installed in your system.

Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: New to groovymame - some questions
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2013, 08:19:08 am »
Ok, thanks for clearing that up regarding the remark 'horizontal'.  :)

About CRT Emudriver, yes, I already tried to install it, but without succes. Let me report the steps that I took (starting from the situation that I have a mobility version of HD4250 driver for my onboard GPU.
1. I downloaded the AMD catalyst driver 13-1-legacy_xp32_dd_ccc_whql.exe from here: http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/windows/legacy/Pages/legacy-radeonaiw-xp.aspx
2. I let the installer unzip  the package and then I used HD mobility modtool to patch the driver, with success
3. I installed the driver, with success
4. I then pachted the VRT emoudriver with the same modtool, success (at least, tht is what the modtool says, 3 passes)
5. I tried to install the patched CRT emudriver in several ways, with and without completely wipign the present HD driver (using the Catalyst uninstall software), but each time I get the message that the driver could not find compatible hardware.  :(

If there is another way to install the Emudriver for my onboard GPU then I could need some advice, please.  :)

Calamity

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Re: New to groovymame - some questions
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2013, 11:53:03 am »
Well, what I'd do is to get the PCI hardware identifiers from your card (Device Manager ->Display Adapters -> Properties -> Details). Post them here. Then add them manually to the driver files to force the hardware to be recognized.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: New to groovymame - some questions
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2013, 01:01:41 pm »
Thanks.  :D

My PCI Hardware identifiers are:

PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_9715&SUBSYS_97151849&REV_00
PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_9715&SUBSYS_97151849
PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_9715&CC_030000
PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_9715&CC_0300

So, how to add  this info to the Emudriver file?
« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 05:03:00 pm by ckong »

Calamity

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Re: New to groovymame - some questions
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2013, 04:57:37 am »
Ok, try replacing these files, make sure you put them in the right place within the driver folder. Then remove the existing driver and try installing again.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

ckong

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Re: New to groovymame - some questions
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2013, 07:04:39 am »
Calamity, I want to thank you upfront for our effort, I appreciate it a lot.

and we are one step further (I hope). I did what you said, I replaced the files in the CRT Emudriver with the ones that you posted, completely uninstalled the existing driver and then tried to install the CRT emudriver again. And yes, this time th driver installer didný quit, but it finished.

In the hardware device manager the monitor adapter is now marked as 'ATI Radeon Mobility HD4200 Series'. However, there is a yellow exclamation mark in front of it and the device is not working. Too bad.

I tried it several times, with and without patching the CRT emuriver with the HD Mobility patch tool, with every time the same result in the device manager. I now hope that I missed an obvious step in the routine.  ???

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Re: New to groovymame - some questions
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2013, 07:21:38 am »
No, you probably took all the steps right, it's just that we're hacking things and this usually fails.

If you open CX_76825.inf, you'll notice I've added this string:

"ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4200 Series" = ati2mtag_RV610, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_9715

Well, the remarked part should be ati2mtag_RS880M actually, but we don't have the [ati2mtag_RS880M] tag in Catalyst 9.3. That's why I forced it to be recognized as ati2mtag_RV610 and it unfortunately fails.

We have [ati2mtag_RS780M] however, you can try replacing ati2mtag_RV610 by ati2mtag_RS780M and see if it works.

Chances are that RS880M is actually not supported by this version of the driver.

Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

ckong

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Re: New to groovymame - some questions
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2013, 07:38:44 am »
Hm, replaced it, but unfortunately with the same result.

Calamity

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Re: New to groovymame - some questions
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2013, 07:41:56 am »
Oh :P

You may succeed by using a somewhat newer Catalyst version, maybe 10.x or something like that, but definitely not as new as the one you were trying. Older versions may possibly retain the dynamic modelines capability. I'd search for the first one that ever supported your chipset.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

ckong

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Re: New to groovymame - some questions
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2013, 10:40:06 am »
Success.  :) I checked all versions from 9.4 and higher, and yes, version 10.4 mentioned my exact driver. So i installed it, without patching it, and now I have the Radeon HD 4250 driver installed, according the device manager.

So, one step closer to complete succes. Thanks for the help, Calamity.  :applaud:

Next step is to generate some custom modelines and import them in the register. I know that Catalyst 10.4 is not the same as CRT emudriver 9.3, is that the reason that VM Maker doesn't find a compatible driver? I attached the VM maker log and the VM.ini.

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Re: New to groovymame - some questions
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2013, 10:44:05 am »
That's good. Now let's see if it supports dynamic modelines.

In vmmaker.ini, edit:

AnyCatalyst = 1
TotalModes = 60
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

Calamity

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Re: New to groovymame - some questions
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2013, 10:46:28 am »
Important! Get the latest version of VMMaker (1.3c): http://mame.3feetunder.com/windows-ati-crt-emudriver/
 
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

ckong

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Re: New to groovymame - some questions
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2013, 11:14:33 am »
I didn't see the option AnyCatalyst = 1, so I just added it, see the attached VM.ini

I now got a completely different result as before, many more resolutions were extracted from the mame.xml and 60 modelines were generated, see the attcached modeline.txt.

VM still can't find a compatible driver, so uploading in the register is still a no no. See the attched VM log.

« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 11:27:35 am by ckong »

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Re: New to groovymame - some questions
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2013, 11:56:47 am »
"AnyCatalyst" is at the bottom of the file! Have a look!

Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

ckong

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Re: New to groovymame - some questions
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2013, 12:44:35 pm »
Oeps, you are right.  :-[

Well, I got it to work, finally, but it seems that almost any, if not all vertical games can't hold their vsync. The same goes for a lot of horizontal games. does this have someting to do with not supporting dynamic modelines?

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Re: New to groovymame - some questions
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2013, 12:49:57 pm »
Try those resolutions in Arcade OSD and check if they work.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

ckong

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Re: New to groovymame - some questions
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2013, 06:13:13 am »
No, they don't work either in Arcade OS (resolutions like 320x240).  ::) For the moment I will stop fooling around with my onboard HD 4250 because I just found a HD 4350 PCI-E crd for real cheap. I suppose that I will be able to install the CRT emudriver on it and then can go further without too much hassle.

In the meanwhile I am fidling a bit with my other Mame setup, in which the first version (yeah, real old) ArcadeVGA  is installed. This card has some nice native resolutions amongst others 321x240 in Windows, instead of 320x240. So I would think that 321x240 is picked by switchres instead of 320x240.

How come then that switchres stillpicks 320x240 and I get:
- an out of sync image when lock-system-modes is 'off'?
- an interlaced (320x240) picture when lock-system-modes is 'on'?


Calamity

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Re: New to groovymame - some questions
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2013, 06:26:55 am »
How come then that switchres stillpicks 320x240 and I get:
- an out of sync image when lock-system-modes is 'off'?
- an interlaced (320x240) picture when lock-system-modes is 'on'?

How come is 320x240 available with your ArcadeVGA instead of just 321x240? Are you using the original drivers? Switchres will obviously pick 320x240 instead of 321x240 because it is closer to the original. The problem is that resolution shouldn't be there. Those old AVGA drivers may be a little different to the relatively newer ones I've used. BTW CRT Emudriver works as a replacement for the drivers of some older ArcadeVGA models, it works better than the original ones because it removes the bug in Catalyst related to 320 and 400 wide resolutions forced double-scanning that is what made necessary to add these 321x and 401x resolutions in the first place.

If possible post a log of this so I can see which modes are actually reported by the system.

The problem with 320x240 resolutions in Arcade_OSD is probably the same bug in un-patched Catalyst. There are some possible workarounds to this too but if you're purchasing a normal pcie card then it won't be necessary.

« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 06:47:27 am by Calamity »
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

ckong

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Re: New to groovymame - some questions
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2013, 01:23:14 pm »
Oh yeah, thanks for the tip  :applaud:

My AVGA is over 10 years old, I got it when I made my first Mame cabinet, back in 2002!. But I just went for it, uninstalled the AVGA driver and tried to install CRT emudriver 6.5 And yes, it works! Great.

First thing that I did was to delete all my mame game ini's because now the fun starts!

I tried of course all the games that gave problems, like Zerowing, Galaga, androdunis, 1944. And the all play great now, in there native resolution. Well, almost all, Toobin is a crazy game with gets scaled up to 720x480 (i) But yes, 320x240 no linger gives me a headache.  ;D ;D This shows the real strength of CRT emudriver! Good work, Calamity, is there a way to donate somehow?

And now that all games seem to be running like a charm, what is still the sense to use VM?

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Re: New to groovymame - some questions
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2013, 01:44:00 pm »
Ah it sounds good that your old AVGA is compatible with CRT Emudriver, that's a relief.

The Toobin game has actually an "EGA" resolution (512x384), and it's vertical so you'd need 512 progressive lines in order to run it without stretching, impossible for a standard arcade monitor.

If you still intend to run 15 kHz games only, there's no need to run VMMaker, because all the required resolutions are there. If you ever wanted to run medium resolution games and your monitor supports this then you may run VMMaker with the proper settings to create the required resolutions.

Now that you ask there's a new 'donate' button on the google code site: http://code.google.com/p/groovyarcade/
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

ckong

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Re: New to groovymame - some questions
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2013, 04:31:40 pm »
thanks, found it (duh) and used it. I just hope that you keep continuing your work on Groovymame and CRT emudriver because this just is the best combo for mame gamers.  :applaud: It is such a shame that I didn´t find out earlier.

Game on!

Edit: one final question, are the more modern AVGA cards also compatible with one of the CRT Emudrivers?
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 04:43:47 pm by ckong »

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Re: New to groovymame - some questions
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2013, 05:07:42 pm »
Thanks a lot man. Modern AVGA cards work in a different way and we don't have modified drivers for Windows unfortunately. They work fine however with Groovy Arcade.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: New to groovymame - some questions
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2013, 08:30:57 pm »
That's rather strange.  I did some research on the Radeon chip that the AVGA3000 used, and my conclusions came to the RV670 chip was the one used for the Radeon 2600Pro/XT series.  Certainly, the CRT drivers you have would work on it?
It doesn't matter how bad things are, it'll work out in the end.

krick

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Re: New to groovymame - some questions
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2013, 11:15:25 pm »

Now that you ask there's a new 'donate' button on the google code site: http://code.google.com/p/groovyarcade/



I just shot you some cash to grease the wheels of progress.
Hantarex Polo 15KHz
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ckong

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Re: New to groovymame - some questions
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2013, 07:31:31 am »
Now that I am running CRT Emudriver 6.5 on my first version AGVA (radeon 7000 based), I came across the issue that Robotron is not holding its vsync. Switchres wants to switch from 292x240@60.10 > 296x240@60.10. But then the game scrolls. Arcade SD shows this resolution perfectly (with 59.973 Hz).

Why is switchres not capable of producing a stable image?

And if I make a robotron.ini, with 296x240, leaving the modeline option in mame.ini at inactive, then the games runs nice picture wise, but at 180%!

Calamity

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Re: New to groovymame - some questions
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2013, 07:41:14 am »
Can't you stabilize it by tweaking the vertical frequency control on your monitor?
Turning off -modeline option is a bad idea, anyway make sure that you explicitly add the -syncrefresh option if that is the case (this won't be automatically added as when the -modeline option is on).
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi