Best ini settings for a 31k CRT PC monitor?

[Dcpmark]

I have an old 21" Hitachi 31k CRT PC monitor in my cab, and before I ditch it for a larger LCD, I just want to see if messing with my MAME 0.143 settings produces better results. Vertical games look pretty good now (to my untrained eye), but Neo Geo and other horizontal games are blocky and blown up. Can anyone tell me what to change for the best results, or can someone post their ini file?

Thanks in advance!

[Gray_Area]

Nature of the beast. There's filters, but they only go so far. For 'authenticity', the only route is native display.

[Dcpmark]

Nature of the beast. There's filters, but they only go so far. For 'authenticity', the only route is native display.

I hear you. But for me it will be a question of which is the lesser of the two evils. I've found quite a few ini settings that do a decent job for LCDs, but I haven't seen any for older 31k 1600x1200 CRT PC monitors.

[MonMotha]

Just FYI, 1600x1200 is a lot higher than 31kHz. It's more like 80kHz.  31k would be 640x480 (progressive).  At 1600x1200, you have a lot of room to play with fake scanline filters.  If your monitor supports 120Hz refresh (many PC monitors do), you could also do a double framerate and draw the video otherwise natively.  The flicker won't be right, but the video will be.  However, a CRT capable of 1600x1200 probably has a very fine dot pitch that won't look arcade authentic.  You'll probably get better results with scanline filters similar to what people use on LCDs.

[Dcpmark]

Just FYI, 1600x1200 is a lot higher than 31kHz. It's more like 80kHz.  31k would be 640x480 (progressive).  At 1600x1200, you have a lot of room to play with fake scanline filters.  If your monitor supports 120Hz refresh (many PC monitors do), you could also do a double framerate and draw the video otherwise natively.  The flicker won't be right, but the video will be.  However, a CRT capable of 1600x1200 probably has a very fine dot pitch that won't look arcade authentic.  You'll probably get better results with scanline filters similar to what people use on LCDs.

Yeah, I forgot to mention its a multi-sync: 31k to 107k, 50hz to 160hz. Actual resolution may be 1600x1280. Video clock frequency 220hz max. .26 DOT pitch.

Can you recommend some things to try to make horizontal games look better?

Thanks!

[mamenewb100]

Like MonMotha said. About all you can do is use a scanline filter like HLSL in MAME. It will make your games look much closer to the real thing. Not as good as an arcade monitor but probably better than an LCD and much better than no scanlines at all.

HLSL requires the latest direct3d drivers to run. Unfortunately allot of games will require different color adjustments to make the games look accurate. Requires alot of tinkering but is worth it in the end.

[Dcpmark]

Like MonMotha said. About all you can do is use a scanline filter like HLSL in MAME.

I was hoping for someone's ini file to copy. As I said there are plenty out there for LCDs, but I haven't seen any for older 4x3 multisync CRTs. If you guys tell me it's fine to use one of the ones for LCD I'll do it.

[Gray_Area]

Lots of people have been ---smurfing--- about with this at MAMEWorld for the last year, and have posted images and files. Here ain't the place ta ask.

[Dcpmark]

Lots of people have been ---smurfing--- about with this at MAMEWorld for the last year, and have posted images and files. Here ain't the place ta ask.

Well, that raises two more questions: 1) what's "smurfing", and 2) why isn't this the place to ask if someone wants  to share their ini file settings for multisync PC monitors?

[mamenewb100]

This a link that a fellow poster gave to me reguarding HLSL http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=255547&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=2&vc=1&new=

It looks really nice on my arcade CRT for street fighter and TMNT. There are allot of games like Mortal Kombat that are too dark with the settings. You can try it out and modify it to your liking.

Doh... I didn't realize you were talking about the MAME.ini. There is not much to change on it other than making sure Switchres is set to 1 along with syncrefresh so you get smooth graphics and proper resolution for the games. I would post my .ini but I'm on my mobile phone right now.

[Dcpmark]

This a link that a fellow poster gave to me reguarding HLSL http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=255547&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=2&vc=1&new=

It looks really nice on my arcade CRT for street fighter and TMNT. There are allot of games like Mortal Kombat that are too dark with the settings. You can try it out and modify it to your liking.

Doh... I didn't realize you were talking about the MAME.ini. There is not much to change on it other than making sure Switchres is set to 1 along with syncrefresh so you get smooth graphics and proper resolution for the games. I would post my .ini but I'm on my mobile phone right now.

Thanks for the info, and I actually meant both general settings and HLSL settings in the ini file.....sorry if that wasn't clear. During my research I did see those settings in the link you gave, but I saw they were for widescreen LCDs so I didn't think they applied to a 4x3 CRT PC monitor. I'm going to check my switchres and syncfresh settings when I get home, and feel free to post your whole ini later when you have the chance. I have the feeling that I have not enabled some very basic settings to make my video look better.

[mamenewb100]

Just paste this to mame.ini

It includes different hlsl settings that work all-around fine for my display. 

Couple things I noticed AFTER i sent you the text file is that Triplebuffer should be set to 0 unless you have framerate problems. Also you should change the monitor_specs0 line to auto or put in your own monitor specs if you have them, or your display will be screwed up.

[Jack Burton]

You could try running native resolutions and see how you like them.  That's what I always use on high-end CRT monitors.

[Dcpmark]

Just paste this to mame.ini

It includes different hlsl settings that work all-around fine for my display. 

Couple things I noticed AFTER i sent you the text file is that Triplebuffer should be set to 0 unless you have framerate problems. Also you should change the monitor_specs0 line to auto or put in your own monitor specs if you have them, or your display will be screwed up.

With one tweak your settings worked nicely for the horizontal games I checked like Neo Geo, but messed up vertical games like PacMan. I realize now how lazy I was being in asking for others ini files....I really just need to take the time and learn what each setting does, and figure it out for myself. Thanks for the help, though!

[Dcpmark]

You could try running native resolutions and see how you like them.  That's what I always use on high-end CRT monitors.

Sorry for being dense, but I'm not sure what you mean. When I think native resolutions I think running 15k games on a 15k monitor. Can you be more specific about what monitor and MAME settings I would use to try your suggestion?

Thanks!

[mamenewb100]

He means running your games at double the refresh rate so it draws the frames the same way it would on a 15Khz arcade monitor. Meaning if a game runs at 60Hz then you double to 120Hz. I'm haven't tried it and not sure how you do it since I can't get a refresh that high.

 The only difference is your display is much finer than the games were designed to run on, so it might look more pixelated. But it is worth comparing to see which looks best.

[Dcpmark]

He means running your games at double the refresh rate so it draws the frames the same way it would on a 15Khz arcade monitor. Meaning if a game runs at 60Hz then you double to 120Hz. I'm haven't tried it and not sure how you do it since I can't get a refresh that high.

 The only difference is your display is much finer than the games were designed to run on, so it might look more pixelated. But it is worth comparing to see which looks best.

Interesting! I can definitely set my monitor to 120hz, but at what res....1600x1200, 800x600, 640x480, etc? Or does it not matter because MAME will automatically set the right resolution for every game regarding of my monitor settings?

Can you tell from my questions I haven't spent much time using Windows? 

[Jack Burton]

Soft 15khz, Advancemame, and Groovymame are the easiest ways to try out native modes with doubled refresh rates. 

What kind of graphics hardware are you using?

[Dcpmark]

Soft 15khz, Advancemame, and Groovymame are the easiest ways to try out native modes with doubled refresh rates. 

What kind of graphics hardware are you using?

Well, I've got two machines up and running now, one an older slow 2.1 Ghz dual core with built-in graphics still hooked up to the multisync CRT in the cab, and the other a new i7-3770k with a GTX 660 that came pre-loaded with Windows 8 hooked up to a 24" Asus LCD. It's the latter machine that I want to get working right, since that's the one that will eventually go into the cab. I haven't decided yet if the LCD with replace the CRT....it just depends on which one I can tweak to look better (admittedly with minimal effort).

[Jack Burton]

You'll want to stick with the CRT.  There's not much the LCD can do that it can't, unless you're interested in playing widescreen games. 

The GTX 660 is an Nvidia card, so you'll probably want to go with Soft 15khz for adding extra videos modes to your windows registry.  I'm not certain that will be easy with Windows 8.  If you plan on using that machine exclusively as a MAME rig I would downgrade to Windows 7 or XP.

[Dcpmark]

You'll want to stick with the CRT.  There's not much the LCD can do that it can't, unless you're interested in playing widescreen games. 

The GTX 660 is an Nvidia card, so you'll probably want to go with Soft 15khz for adding extra videos modes to your windows registry.  I'm not certain that will be easy with Windows 8.  If you plan on using that machine exclusively as a MAME rig I would downgrade to Windows 7 or XP.

Well, it was mostly MAME and then some other 4x3 consoles like SNES, but then I added Supermodel, and you should see some Model 3 titles like SCUD RACE running widescreen with the right settings....gorgeous! Of course, I haven't tried it on the CRT yet, and I think most Model 3 games were still 4x3. I'm trying to think of other systems that use widescreen.

I don't know if a newer card like the GTX 660 even works with Soft15khz, but tomorrow I hope to pick up a copy of 64-bit XP Pro, so at least I won't have to try to make it work in Win 8.

[Gray_Area]

"---smurfing---" is the auto-censor saying I said a bad word. Smurfing would work well, too. Maybe I'll start using that.

I don't like doubled refresh on PC CRTs. It's cool for a moment, but the spaces between drawn lines are so huge, it looks a little bizarre. Scanline effects are great - although I don't go to the trouble of trying to deeply replicate the real displays. Too much work.