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Author Topic: argh why cant i get 384/320 x224? please have a look :(  (Read 2547 times)

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bytestorm

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argh why cant i get 384/320 x224? please have a look :(
« on: February 17, 2013, 05:14:41 pm »
hello everyone!
i have tried for a while now with different settings and drivers, but many videomodes are wrong.. groovymame chooses the wrong ones.
if i start a neogeo game, i get 320x240p, and sf2 and other capcom games are also wrong..
i have an hd 4560 i think it was, and crt drivers v6.5 (calamitys)

if i start the arcade osd then i can set the tv resolytion to 320x244, but mame still chooses 320x240 :(

i am using a sony trinitron 29" crt tv

is there any way i can add the missing video modes?

when i run VMM, it only generates 8 resolutions.. shouldnt there be more?
and i am also a little confuset about in what ini to make the actual changes.. mames or vmm?

thanks in advance!
« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 12:24:20 am by bytestorm »

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Re: argh why cant i get 320x224? please have a look :(
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2013, 05:58:00 pm »
Even with magic resolutions you should get about 30 at least. Without around 100 or some more/less. Wrong driver could be the problem. For the HD 4560 you should use Catalyst 9.3. Remoe all current drivers with Ati's unsinstaller in safe mode. Reinstall all the drivers. Run VMM. Should work off the bat.


Modeline changes should be done in both, mame and vmm. Use mame's ini to get the right modeline for your CRT. You may find a preset that works right away for you. Else you have to find your own. After that, use the modeline in vmm.ini and start vmm. It will choose video modes depending on the specs you gave.

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argh why cant i get 320x224? please have a look :(
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2013, 06:06:59 pm »
Allright! Thanks for the fast response!! :) I will try it first thing in the morning ;) wow hope it works.. Spent several hours testing and reinstalling.. Will update asap

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Re: argh why cant i get 320x224? please have a look :(
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2013, 07:01:19 pm »
Make sure you use latest version of VMMaker (1.3c): http://mame.3feetunder.com/windows-ati-crt-emudriver/

Older versions can't read the resolutions from newer MAME versions.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: argh why cant i get 320x224? please have a look :(
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2013, 12:20:27 am »
it looks much better now, but i still have a small issue..
now it gets 384x240 instead of 384x224.. still looks sooo much better now, but how come it doesnt choose 224??

krick

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Re: argh why cant i get 384/320 x224? please have a look :(
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2013, 01:27:20 am »
I suspect it might have something to do with refresh rate limits and the fact that you're using a TV.  Here's some possibly related info from the Ulimarc Monitor FAQ...

http://www.ultimarc.com/monfaq.html
Quote
What about games with a vertical res of 240 or less?

A game which has a native vertical resolution of 240 will look exactly the same on an arcade monitor whether the monitor is running at a vertical resolution of 240 or less than 240. The reason is this: tweaked modes of less than 240 are configured with top-bottom borders to add to the total number of lines. This is necessary to keep below the 60Hz vertical scan limit. (as number of lines goes down, the time taken to display them goes down, therefore the Vfreq goes up) So either the video mode will have borders (<240 modes) or MAME will have borders and the result is the same, and it will be arcade-real. This is why the ArcadeVGA card does not contain many <240 line modes. They are quite unnecessary. As far as horizontal res goes, there is no issue with this and monitors, they can display any horizontal resolution (note we are talking resolution here not scan rate, which is always 15Khz). The issue here is that the VGA card dot clock needs to be adjusted to provide the correct line scan rate for the required resolution. So with low frequency (15Khz) monitors, we can sometimes run into the VGA card's lower dot-clock limit. (the ArcadeVGA card has no practical dot clock lower limit).

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Re: argh why cant i get 384/320 x224? please have a look :(
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2013, 01:39:38 am »
hmm ok. yes I am using a CRT TV.
But it really looks much better now, but I find it strange that when i started ZERO WING, then I noticed that the bottom lines are missing, the "credits" cant be seen.
But when I start the game, the videomodes are exact the same as the original so thats a little wierd :/

I am not using the ArcadeVGA card, (i have it but it was actually harder to configure so i dont use it :( ) I am just using a regular hd 4xxx card.

But the capcom games looks awesome even thou they are 240 instead of 224

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AW: argh why cant i get 384/320 x224? please have a look :(
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2013, 03:19:52 am »
That's because groovy Mame can't set your vertical size.  Its centering the picture. You have to setup vertical size in your TV service menu or with the pots of an arcade monitor.

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Re: AW: argh why cant i get 384/320 x224? please have a look :(
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2013, 03:35:53 am »
That's because groovy Mame can't set your vertical size.  Its centering the picture. You have to setup vertical size in your TV service menu or with the pots of an arcade monitor.

aah.. i was afraid i would hear this... so thats the problem.. :/
well thats going to be troublesome to enter the service menu and change around for different games..
from what i have heard, sony trinitron tvs have a quite complicated menu for this :(
i dont want to risk ruining it so i guess i have to live with this, at least for this tv, but if i use this setup on my arcade monitor + chassie, then i could change this more easily?

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AW: argh why cant i get 384/320 x224? please have a look :(
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2013, 04:22:49 am »
With analog pots its very easy. Entering the service menu in a Sony isn't that hard either. As long as you only change the vertical size you can't do much wrong.

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Re: AW: argh why cant i get 384/320 x224? please have a look :(
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2013, 04:34:31 am »
With analog pots its very easy. Entering the service menu in a Sony isn't that hard either. As long as you only change the vertical size you can't do much wrong.

yeah, but i would need to change the vertical size manually for every game :(
but when i think about it, its the same for real pcbs also... :D
its just that you change game more often in mame...

but, nothing beats the real deal.. but this kind of setup is nice to test the games before buy.. since some are rather expensive and could be utter crap ;)

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AW: argh why cant i get 384/320 x224? please have a look :(
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2013, 04:47:40 am »
Except for the vertical games you don't need to change the vertical size that often. Neo geo for example has black borders by itself. Cps2 as well. As long as you don't switch games every few minutes it's worth it. You'll become quick at this. I have my vertical pot in my control panel do I can adjust the size in a second.

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AW: argh why cant i get 384/320 x224? please have a look :(
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2013, 04:49:27 am »
Btw do you use one of the presets in the Mame ini? Getting your own modeline means some work but its absolutely worth it.

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Re: AW: argh why cant i get 384/320 x224? please have a look :(
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2013, 04:58:09 am »
Btw do you use one of the presets in the Mame ini? Getting your own modeline means some work but its absolutely worth it.

Honestly I havent changed anything in mame ini... i tried once to change GENERIC_15 to PAL or NTSC, and CUSTOM but didnt work.. I didnt understand how to use it correctly i guess...
Could you explain "Getting your own modeline" a little bit please :/ I dont know how to configure it.

thanks

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AW: argh why cant i get 384/320 x224? please have a look :(
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2013, 05:17:42 am »
It's giving the specs of your monitor to Mame to make the best video mode in the range of your monitor. You'll have to do some research around the forum as there is no tutorial. Or just use the presets depending on your monitor.

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Re: argh why cant i get 384/320 x224? please have a look :(
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2013, 05:44:56 am »
Hi bytestorm,

If you really want to have 224p modes for your MAME games, edit vmmaker.ini, option YresMin_XML = 224.

Read the explanation in Ultimarc's site posted by krick.

In other words, if you could attach an oscilloscope to the output of your VGA, when running a Neo-Geo game in MAME at 224p and 240p would show the exact same signal.

Please don't mistake "modelines" for "monitor_specs" or "crt_range" lines. They're related but very different things.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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AW: argh why cant i get 384/320 x224? please have a look :(
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2013, 06:24:52 am »
My bad, sorry!

bytestorm

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Re: argh why cant i get 384/320 x224? please have a look :(
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2013, 06:34:56 am »
allright! I will check it all when i get home this afternoon :) finally its working satisfying atleast.. but its hard to stop trying to get it "perfect" :)
Thanks all! I will get back here with an update later!

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Re: AW: argh why cant i get 384/320 x224? please have a look :(
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2013, 12:38:01 pm »
aah.. i was afraid i would hear this... so thats the problem.. :/
well thats going to be troublesome to enter the service menu and change around for different games..
from what i have heard, sony trinitron tvs have a quite complicated menu for this :(
i dont want to risk ruining it so i guess i have to live with this, at least for this tv, but if i use this setup on my arcade monitor + chassie, then i could change this more easily?

The bottom line is that if you run vertical games on a horizontal monitor with accurate resolutions and refresh rates, you'll have to adjust your monitor to fit more lines on the screen for vertical games.

Personally, I've adjusted my monitor so that vertical games like Pac-Man just barely fit on the screen and I leave it that way.  This has the side effect of causing a small top and bottom border when I play horizontal games, but I don't really notice it when I'm playing.  To me, it's worth it to not have to fiddle with the vertical size for every game.
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Re: argh why cant i get 384/320 x224? please have a look :(
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2013, 01:24:13 am »
hmm these presets, I can see that in VMM my monitor is set to "custom" and in mame.ini its set to generic_15.
The thing is that I need to change both inis to the same setting? Do I need to run VMM after every change?

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« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2013, 02:34:28 am »
Let Vmmaker at custom for now. You said you've got a TV so 15 isn't quite right for you. Check the presets and see what fits best.

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Re: AW: argh why cant i get 384/320 x224? please have a look :(
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2013, 04:52:13 am »
Let Vmmaker at custom for now. You said you've got a TV so 15 isn't quite right for you. Check the presets and see what fits best.

ok so if i understand correctly now, then I would only change presets in mame.ini?
is presets the "custom", "generic_15" etc??

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AW: argh why cant i get 384/320 x224? please have a look :(
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2013, 06:08:10 am »
Exactly. Is it a pal TV? I'd try that. The best you could do is find your own monitor specs though. Calamity, maybe you could write down a quick tutorial in a sticky.

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Re: AW: argh why cant i get 384/320 x224? please have a look :(
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2013, 08:14:13 am »
Exactly. Is it a pal TV? I'd try that. The best you could do is find your own monitor specs though. Calamity, maybe you could write down a quick tutorial in a sticky.

Yes my tv is a PAL tv.. but its a sony trinitron so maybe i should choose ntsc since it supports that too? What specs should i look for about my tv?
anything specific?

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AW: argh why cant i get 384/320 x224? please have a look :(
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2013, 08:11:40 am »
Pal goes up to 60Hz while NTSC is 50Hz if I'm not wrong.

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Re: argh why cant i get 384/320 x224? please have a look :(
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2013, 09:19:27 am »
Pal goes up to 60Hz while NTSC is 50Hz if I'm not wrong.

Well, it's actually the opposite, PAL=50, NTSC=60

However, PAL and NTSC settings should not be used with GM unless you have one very restrictive TV which can only handle the pure standard (very rare). Most TVs can handle a wider range of frequencies, and are actually multi-standard.

With a SCART TV I'd use either one of these settings:

   generic_15   Generic 15.7 kHz
   arcade_15   Arcade 15.7 kHz - standard resolution
   arcade_15ex   Arcade 15.7-16.5 kHz - extended resolution

From top to bottom, generic_15 is the less powerful, arcade_15ex the most. The Sony will surely accept arcade_15, and is very likely to support arcade_15ex (16.5 kHz).
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: argh why cant i get 384/320 x224? please have a look :(
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2013, 03:10:39 pm »
oh nice! i will try those! pal and ntsc did not yield any good results :(

Pal goes up to 60Hz while NTSC is 50Hz if I'm not wrong.

Well, it's actually the opposite, PAL=50, NTSC=60

However, PAL and NTSC settings should not be used with GM unless you have one very restrictive TV which can only handle the pure standard (very rare). Most TVs can handle a wider range of frequencies, and are actually multi-standard.

With a SCART TV I'd use either one of these settings:

   generic_15   Generic 15.7 kHz
   arcade_15   Arcade 15.7 kHz - standard resolution
   arcade_15ex   Arcade 15.7-16.5 kHz - extended resolution

From top to bottom, generic_15 is the less powerful, arcade_15ex the most. The Sony will surely accept arcade_15, and is very likely to support arcade_15ex (16.5 kHz).

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Re: argh why cant i get 384/320 x224? please have a look :(
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2013, 08:06:07 am »
arcade_15ex   Arcade 15.7-16.5 kHz - extended resolution
works like a charm :) now its centered, and really really close to original.

i am only missing around 5mm around the screen in some games, but i guess thats just normal?


oh nice! i will try those! pal and ntsc did not yield any good results :(

Pal goes up to 60Hz while NTSC is 50Hz if I'm not wrong.

Well, it's actually the opposite, PAL=50, NTSC=60

However, PAL and NTSC settings should not be used with GM unless you have one very restrictive TV which can only handle the pure standard (very rare). Most TVs can handle a wider range of frequencies, and are actually multi-standard.

With a SCART TV I'd use either one of these settings:

   generic_15   Generic 15.7 kHz
   arcade_15   Arcade 15.7 kHz - standard resolution
   arcade_15ex   Arcade 15.7-16.5 kHz - extended resolution

From top to bottom, generic_15 is the less powerful, arcade_15ex the most. The Sony will surely accept arcade_15, and is very likely to support arcade_15ex (16.5 kHz).

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AW: argh why cant i get 384/320 x224? please have a look :(
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2013, 07:21:13 pm »
Yes. 5 mm is more than tolerable :)

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Re: argh why cant i get 384/320 x224? please have a look :(
« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2013, 01:37:46 am »
I want to thank everyone who has helped me with this issues.. It was quite confusing at first, and even thou I read the guides and readme´s I still found it quite unclear wich ini´s to edit, presets, modline for your tv etc.. I hope this thread can help more ppl than just me, because this issue was not only about the specific resolution in the topic.. most resolutions were off, and not centered.

Thank you all!!!

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« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2013, 06:49:57 am »
I think there should be a guide for the new people how to setup groovy Mame.

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Re: AW: argh why cant i get 384/320 x224? please have a look :(
« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2013, 06:54:40 am »
I think the problem is that the information is spread.. there are some guides but I would have to check many different threads to get all this I think.. or I am just slow ;)

I think there should be a guide for the new people how to setup groovy Mame.

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« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2013, 08:07:08 pm »
No, same here. Had to read through many threads to get my answers