Build computer from scratch

[miniyoda]

I poked around this forum (albeit not very deeply) looking for the answer to the following.  If I missed the thread(s) that cover my questions, sorry in adavnce.  If someone could point me to threads or web sites that could give me details, I'd appreciate it.

I have been out of MAME since 2005, and am ready to get back into it.  Obviously a lot has changed since then, and since my old arcade computer died, I have to start from scratch.  The only thing I have is my old Joust cabinet and custom control panel.  This mean downloading everything all over again (software, roms, etc), investing in a new computer system, new keyboard controller, probably new display, etc.

I'm looking for advise on what I should do for hardware.  My plan is to first buy a 2TB USB hard drive and download / configure everything on it, then eventually add a new computer system, monitor, etc.  Here are my questions (so far).

- what is recommended for hardware.  Last I heard, the more powerful the CPU and the more the RAM, the better.  Is 32GB of RAM overkill? What is the latest on MAME using MultiCore CPU's?  Should I invest in a 4 or 6 core system, or stick with a dual core?  Way-back-when, a powerful graphics card wasn't important....is that still the case?  Would a server grade machine be better than a desktop?

- How much disk space does MAME currently require, including ROMs, CHDs, sound files, etc.  Is 2TB too much?

- What would be the best operating system.  This is worse than asking religious questions, but is there an advantage in Windows 7, Windows 8, Linux (which flavor), etc?  Is one OS faster at MAME than another (are there benchmark test)?  From what I read here, definitely go with a 64 bit OS.

- My old cabinet had a 21" CRT, which is pretty much unseen now-a-days, and considering age/storage, might not work anymore.  Is there a recommendation for monitors?  Way back when, light guns for shooting games didn't work with flat screens.  Is that still an issue?

- I'm open to suggestions on spinners, track balls, joy sticks, light guns, etc.

- As I am pretty much starting from scratch, I plan to replace my keyboard controller, so suggestions are welcomed.

- Anyone have experience with solid state drives?  Does it make a difference with CHD based games?  Are they worth it at all for MAME?

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.  I'm sure there will be more questions.  I'm in no hurry to build the system, so I might not start until MAME .150, but I just wanted to get ready with things now.

MiniYoda

[paigeoliver]

Your 21" CRT is still actually ideal for a Joust type cabinet.

You really won't gain very much from a high end multicore system over your 2005 era system. It will enable about 24 games more than you had before, 21 of which have specialty controls that you don't have installed on your cabinet.

CPU power is absolutely the least important thing you can toss at a mame project. 98 percent of titles you can name were running full speed ten years ago on equally vintage hardware. The other 2 percent is dominated by games with specialty controls, leaving very little gain for your cpu investment.

[starcade]

I'm in a similar position, having come back to building MAME cabs after 6 years away. I dug out a pile of old SFF machines from my attic but none of them were in good enough shape for me to rely on for something as important as a MAME cab 

I looked around and I've been stress-testing the GIGABYTE GA-E350N-USB3 to see how it performs. The answer is: brilliantly!

It's a small (mini ITX) motherboard with a dual core AMD CPU already installed and on-chip Radeon HD 6310 graphics. With 4 Gb of RAM it runs everything I need (I don't really care about any games made after 1999) and the best news: it's $76.09 from Amazon!

http://www.amazon.com/GIGABYTE-GA-E350N-USB3-Dual-Core-Hudson-M1-Motherboard/dp/B004P1IN8G/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1360916291&sr=1-1&keywords=GIGABYTE+GA-E350N-USB3

Well worth a look.

[kahlid74]

- what is recommended for hardware.  Last I heard, the more powerful the CPU and the more the RAM, the better.  Is 32GB of RAM overkill? What is the latest on MAME using MultiCore CPU's?  Should I invest in a 4 or 6 core system, or stick with a dual core?  Way-back-when, a powerful graphics card wasn't important....is that still the case?  Would a server grade machine be better than a desktop?

This is a hotly contended question but in the end, if you want to play games like Gauntlet Legends and Blitz99 or SFRush, you'll need close to 12Ghz of processing power.  So a 3Ghz chip with four cores.  What Paige said above is true for so many 2D games but you'll want to run an older version of MAME if you skimp on processor.  If you want to run the newest version of MAME I would run a G850 or higher and if you want 3D I would run an i5 3.0Ghz or faster.  Newer version of MAME push for accuracy and can be slow on slow systems.

You don't need more than 4 Gb of memory.

- How much disk space does MAME currently require, including ROMs, CHDs, sound files, etc.  Is 2TB too much?

So this really depends on what you want.  If it's just MAME (~260Gb for roms/CHDs) and then artwork is in the ~14-16Gb range and then if you roll hyperspin and want movies, ~100Gb.  So all in all you're roughly ~350-400GB.  As a comparison I have all of the above for MAME, Sega Genesis, SNES, and NES and I'm at 485GB.  2Tb is plenty fine and gives you room for PC games/Big Consoles/ etc. but don't forget to back it up.

- What would be the best operating system.  This is worse than asking religious questions, but is there an advantage in Windows 7, Windows 8, Linux (which flavor), etc?  Is one OS faster at MAME than another (are there benchmark test)?  From what I read here, definitely go with a 64 bit OS.

If you want compatibility, Windows XP 32Bit  is the way to go.  I steer clear of 64bit right now just because of compatibility but feel free to try if you want.  Windows 8 is a no no.  Windows 7 is alright but may have a few glitches compatibility wise.  Linux is freaking rocking but limited in many places like front end, add-ons, utilities, etc.

- My old cabinet had a 21" CRT, which is pretty much unseen now-a-days, and considering age/storage, might not work anymore.  Is there a recommendation for monitors?  Way back when, light guns for shooting games didn't work with flat screens.  Is that still an issue?

Light-guns for flat screens are still an issue.  Google for more information.  A Tube is always preferred as the feel relates more to what it used to feel like but I have transitioned to Flat Panel for ease of use.

- As I am pretty much starting from scratch, I plan to replace my keyboard controller, so suggestions are welcomed.

I still roll I-Pac for my keyboard encoders.  Viggo has a good one too and there are a few from Kickstarter like Kade, etc.

- Anyone have experience with solid state drives?  Does it make a difference with CHD based games?  Are they worth it at all for MAME?

Not worth it for MAME.  Makes no difference I have seen and I tested it.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.  I'm sure there will be more questions.  I'm in no hurry to build the system, so I might not start until MAME .150, but I just wanted to get ready with things now.

You don't need to wait until a new version of MAME comes out but being patient will result in a well built machine you're happy with.

[miniyoda]

Thanks to everyone for all your answers.  Especially to kahlid74!

- what is recommended for hardware.  Last I heard, the more powerful the CPU and the more the RAM, the better.  Is 32GB of RAM overkill? What is the latest on MAME using MultiCore CPU's?  Should I invest in a 4 or 6 core system, or stick with a dual core?  Way-back-when, a powerful graphics card wasn't important....is that still the case?  Would a server grade machine be better than a desktop?

This is a hotly contended question but in the end, if you want to play games like Gauntlet Legends and Blitz99 or SFRush, you'll need close to 12Ghz of processing power.  So a 3Ghz chip with four cores.  What Paige said above is true for so many 2D games but you'll want to run an older version of MAME if you skimp on processor.  If you want to run the newest version of MAME I would run a G850 or higher and if you want 3D I would run an i5 3.0Ghz or faster.  Newer version of MAME push for accuracy and can be slow on slow systems.

You don't need more than 4 Gb of memory.

So to summarize, you are indicating that MAME can utilize all the cores of a multi-core CPU?  It is good to know that anything over 4GB of RAM is overkill.....I can save the cash on RAM and invest it in the CPU.

- How much disk space does MAME currently require, including ROMs, CHDs, sound files, etc.  Is 2TB too much?

So this really depends on what you want.  If it's just MAME (~260Gb for roms/CHDs) and then artwork is in the ~14-16Gb range and then if you roll hyperspin and want movies, ~100Gb.  So all in all you're roughly ~350-400GB.  As a comparison I have all of the above for MAME, Sega Genesis, SNES, and NES and I'm at 485GB.  2Tb is plenty fine and gives you room for PC games/Big Consoles/ etc. but don't forget to back it up.

I'm planning to re-build as I had it, which will include the systems listed above along with Atari systems, but these won't take much more space.  I'm going with the 2TB drive since they seem to be stable and most bang for buck right now.

- What would be the best operating system.  This is worse than asking religious questions, but is there an advantage in Windows 7, Windows 8, Linux (which flavor), etc?  Is one OS faster at MAME than another (are there benchmark test)?  From what I read here, definitely go with a 64 bit OS.

If you want compatibility, Windows XP 32Bit  is the way to go.  I steer clear of 64bit right now just because of compatibility but feel free to try if you want.  Windows 8 is a no no.  Windows 7 is alright but may have a few glitches compatibility wise.  Linux is freaking rocking but limited in many places like front end, add-ons, utilities, etc.

This was very helpful, and somewhat surprising.  I had heard that XP64 was the way to go for speed reasons.  Also good to know that Linux is lacking in add-ons and utils.  Once I start assembling my system, I'll experiment with different OS's.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.  I'm sure there will be more questions.  I'm in no hurry to build the system, so I might not start until MAME .150, but I just wanted to get ready with things now.

You don't need to wait until a new version of MAME comes out but being patient will result in a well built machine you're happy with.

For right now, I'm going to wait until .150, simply because of finances.  I flipped a coin....Heads I pay the mortgage, Tails I buy hardware.  Heads it was, so the bank got my money this month.  Also, I thought of putting different versions of MAME, all the ROMs, CHDs, etc on a USB drive, and spend lots of time configuring things on the drive.  This way I can move it from system to system and experiment on how things perform on different OS's and hardware configurations.  Once I see what I like, and have the additional money, I'll start working on a building a computer.

Again, thanks for the advise.  I will post what I learn when I get started

[keilmillerjr]

Holy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- dude!

Way over spec'd. My 27" iMac I got for web design, which will hopefully be my full time career soon, does not have those specs. I am new to mame. I tell people running macs that with the current mac 10.8 and app requirements, 2.0 ghz core duo and 4 gb of ram is my minimum standard to not get left behind.

A solid state drive, flash or sd can cut boot time in half. This can aid in making the experience more arcade like in the fact that you can flick a switch and instantly have a game. I would also suggest against using windows, as it takes too long to boot, and always has issues. However, there is a lot of mame apps for windows only. It's retarded. I'm probably going to use xubunu. It uses lower resources, always works (unlike winblows) and should boot rather quick for being a newer OS.

There is no need for a 2tb hard drive. Every 80's and 90's arcade game ever made, held on one drive, will not fill that. And mame probably won't play them all. I'd just get what ever is within your budget and boots the quickest. I don't want my arcade machine to wait to boot. I wan't to flick a switch and start playing.

My theory is to network the arcade machine I want to build (wirelessly), so I can just transfer the roms I want to play remotely. No need to have every game ever made on it. Just the good ones. If some one comes over and requests a game, I hop on over to my iMac and "beam" a file on over to the arcade machine. Simple.

I'm still in the planning stages though. I'd take advice from some one who has recently built some of these machines as well.

[smalltownguy]

Holy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- dude!

Way over spec'd. My 27" iMac I got for web design, which will hopefully be my full time career soon, does not have those specs. I am new to mame. I tell people running macs that with the current mac 10.8 and app requirements, 2.0 ghz core duo and 4 gb of ram is my minimum standard to not get left behind.

A solid state drive, flash or sd can cut boot time in half. This can aid in making the experience more arcade like in the fact that you can flick a switch and instantly have a game. I would also suggest against using windows, as it takes too long to boot, and always has issues. However, there is a lot of mame apps for windows only. It's retarded. I'm probably going to use xubunu. It uses lower resources, always works (unlike winblows) and should boot rather quick for being a newer OS.

There is no need for a 2tb hard drive. Every 80's and 90's arcade game ever made, held on one drive, will not fill that. And mame probably won't play them all. I'd just get what ever is within your budget and boots the quickest. I don't want my arcade machine to wait to boot. I wan't to flick a switch and start playing.

My theory is to network the arcade machine I want to build (wirelessly), so I can just transfer the roms I want to play remotely. No need to have every game ever made on it. Just the good ones. If some one comes over and requests a game, I hop on over to my iMac and "beam" a file on over to the arcade machine. Simple.

I'm still in the planning stages though. I'd take advice from some one who has recently built some of these machines as well.

As far as I'm aware, MAME makes use of 2 cores at present. Anything else is wasted. A 4 core CPU would give you 2 for MAME, and 2 for other processes.

4 gigs of ram is great.

I have a 1TB drive in my rig and it's half full already. You can't ignore the size of the PS2 disk images, and so forth.

I actually like using a fast SSD in my setup. I keep a small (64gb) SSD in there for my OS boot drive. The rest of my data (game roms, vids, snaps, etc) are on a 10,000 rpm 1tb drive. My system boots in 13 seconds (WinXP 64bit). I have an intel core i5 2550k overclocked to 4.8ghz. My system runs Gauntlet Legends and Blitz just fine.

If you want to flick a switch and start playing, MAME really isn't for you. Buy a real arcade board.

If you choose to network your MAME cab, you will slow the cab down by having to load network drivers and more OS services than necessary. I use an nLighted version of XP with all the timmings stripped out. If I want to add/update my rig, I'll plug in a USB thumb drive.

You can't just 'beam' over a new game when your friend requests it. If the game needs a chd, you'll need that too. Plus, you'll need to configure the game controls to work with your own controls. That's a buzz kill - you buddy's already moved on.

A lot of my info can be found at the tail end of this thread:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=72776

[keilmillerjr]

13 seconds is reasonable. Thats all I meant. I would not want a computer that takes a minute to start.

If the game needs a chd, I could just transfer that over too. You make it sound more complicated than it is.

I guess your requirements might change if you want to run 3D games vs 2d games. Also, is the original poster looking to run mame, or is he looking to run mame as well as other emulators? I was under the asumption of just mame, and storage for large ps2 games would not apply if that be the case.

Here is mame's official statement on multicore/threadding:

Does MAME benefit from SMP (symmetric multiprocessing) / HT (Hyper-Threading) / dual cores?
Recent versions of MAME include a -mt switch which allows some tasks to be threaded off for use by SMP or multicore systems. Thus far the benefits from this are relatively small, because accurate emulation such as MAME strives for cannot easily be broken up into parallel subtasks (it would be like trying to have a baby in one month by impregnating nine women). There are exceptions of course, and MAME will support them via this mechanism in the future.

[miniyoda]

Holy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- dude!

Way over spec'd. My 27" iMac I got for web design, which will hopefully be my full time career soon, does not have those specs. I am new to mame. I tell people running macs that with the current mac 10.8 and app requirements, 2.0 ghz core duo and 4 gb of ram is my minimum standard to not get left behind.

A solid state drive, flash or sd can cut boot time in half. This can aid in making the experience more arcade like in the fact that you can flick a switch and instantly have a game. I would also suggest against using windows, as it takes too long to boot, and always has issues. However, there is a lot of mame apps for windows only. It's retarded. I'm probably going to use xubunu. It uses lower resources, always works (unlike winblows) and should boot rather quick for being a newer OS.

There is no need for a 2tb hard drive. Every 80's and 90's arcade game ever made, held on one drive, will not fill that. And mame probably won't play them all. I'd just get what ever is within your budget and boots the quickest. I don't want my arcade machine to wait to boot. I wan't to flick a switch and start playing.

My theory is to network the arcade machine I want to build (wirelessly), so I can just transfer the roms I want to play remotely. No need to have every game ever made on it. Just the good ones. If some one comes over and requests a game, I hop on over to my iMac and "beam" a file on over to the arcade machine. Simple.

I'm still in the planning stages though. I'd take advice from some one who has recently built some of these machines as well.

Very good suggestions, and I appreciate them.  I'm leaning on "no" to the solid state drive for booting, as the system will be powered most of the time, although dormant almost always.  I was leaning on SSD only for the CHD's but it is apparent this isn't necessary.  I'm sticking to the 2TB drive, as I might install pinball emulation on it as well, and basically have one machine for everything (for now...when I win the lottery, I'll break things up into multiple systems).  I like the idea of uploading the roms as needed, but not the wait to do so, and if I have a large enough drive it won't be necessary.

Oh, as for "way over spec'd", just remember what The Mythbusters say.  If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing.   

[Dawgz Rule]

A clean install of WinXp 32 works great for mame.  Not networked is even better.  You can disable a lot of unnecessary services and easily boot into your front end in less than 30 seconds.  With a little extra effort you can pretty much hide anything everything windows related and it looks very authentic.  I agree with putting all of the ROMS on drive as you can apply filters or views to the front end to display what you want to display.

[slappyhooper]

you want a x64 bit OS, as mame is about 10-15% faster than x86 setups. (depending on who you ask, this can range from 10-25% faster )

[smalltownguy]

you want a x64 bit OS, as mame is about 10-15% faster than x86 setups. (depending on who you ask, this can range from 10-25% faster )

That may or may not mean much with respect to what games you are running. If your favorite game is at 95% framerate with a 32bit OS, then it may make a difference. But there aren't very many 64bit drivers for certain hardware with XP, so it's sort of a double edged sword.