Buttons

[Zeenon]

So I've looked at more pictures of CP then I'd like to admit, and although I'm still in the building stage, I want to make sure all my ducks are in a row when it comes to the CP.

This is what I currently have:

Mini-Pac opti (usb)
2 - Mag stick plus (4/8)
1 - Spintrak spinner
1 - u-trak trackball
30 - Happ pushbuttons

The intent of the cab is mostly MAME and Pinball, with a little NES/SNES/N64 thrown in. I love the CP layout of theShaners cab, but I haven't played most MAME games so I want to make sure I have the buttons squared away.



So looking at the image above I was thinking:

Top-Left: P1 , P2, Start
Top-Mid: No 4 way, Spinner, Player1Button1, Player1Button2 (these buttons would be shared with the buttons on the P1 controls)
Top-Right: Shift, OPEN, OPEN (advice needed) Should I add buttons for admin functions?

P1/P2 controls: 4/8 joy with 7 button layout

Trackball: Should I add the buttons on the left/right of the ball?

Pinball: This is another part advice is needed. I had a X arcade so with the 4 buttons on the sides, I mapped the L/R flippers and L/R nudge. After reading posts here the standard seems to be L flipper, L Magnasave, L upper flipper (then the same on the right). So am I correct that I need 3 buttons on each side (and 1 in the front for the launcher). I know a few of these share buttons with the P1 controls.

I have a coin door coming so COIN1/COIN2 will goto the door. Also since the mini-pac has a shift function ESC, Coin1 and Coin2 will be mapped to the secondary set of buttons (ie ESC = Shift P1)





Yes, there are 2 you are not going blind, since we were woking on the project together he decided to build one also.

Z

[Cynicaster]

My $.02.....

So looking at the image above I was thinking:

Top-Left: P1 , P2, Start

I don't get it.   P1 start and P2 start are worth having, but what's the "start" button for? 

Top-Mid: No 4 way, Spinner, Player1Button1, Player1Button2 (these buttons would be shared with the buttons on the P1 controls)

I'm not sure what you mean by "no 4 way".  Be careful about putting things in front of the trackball like that, as you might get overzealous drunks jamming their fingers during spirited games of Golden Tee. 

Top-Right: Shift, OPEN, OPEN (advice needed) Should I add buttons for admin functions?

I'd deep-six the dedicated shift button.  Opinions differ on whether admin buttons belong on a panel at all, but don't go by what others think, just decide which is more important to you: a) having the "cleanest" panel possible; or b) single touch access to important admin functions. 

I have two admin buttons on mine--pause game and exit game.  They're off in the upper left corner, and I used small red 3/8" Radio Shack buttons so there's no mistaking them for game controls.  I don't regret putting them there, for what it's worth.  I could probably do without the exit game button but having an immediately accessible and intuitive pause button is extremely handy; it gets used all the time. 

IMO, you don't need a dedicated TAB button on your panel.  I access the MAME "tab" menu by holding P1 start and pressing right on the P1 joystick.  I didn't even configure it that way, I think that's simply the default setup, and it's great. 

P1/P2 controls: 4/8 joy with 7 button layout

I'd ditch the 7th buttons personally, but I'll assume you've thought it through and have identified a need. 

Trackball: Should I add the buttons on the left/right of the ball?

Left.

[Zeenon]

Quote from: Zeenon on Today at 12:06:38 pm


    So looking at the image above I was thinking:

    Top-Left: P1 , P2, Start

I don't get it.   P1 start and P2 start are worth having, but what's the "start" button for?

You are correct typo on my part, so maybe P1, Pause, and Exit on top left and move P2 to the top right? In all the games I've played I've never used the Pause button.

Quote

    Top-Mid: No 4 way, Spinner, Player1Button1, Player1Button2 (these buttons would be shared with the buttons on the P1 controls)

I'm not sure what you mean by "no 4 way".  Be careful about putting things in front of the trackball like that, as you might get overzealous drunks jamming their fingers during spirited games of Golden Tee. 

I was not going with a dedicated 4-way in the first hole, but that is a good catch I may move the spinner to the left, avoiding anything above the trackball.

Z

[PL1]

Top-Left: P1 , P2, Start
Top-Mid: No 4 way, Spinner, Player1Button1, Player1Button2 (these buttons would be shared with the buttons on the P1 controls)
Top-Right: Shift, OPEN, OPEN (advice needed) Should I add buttons for admin functions?

P2 Start should be on the right half of the panel.

As long as you have at least these functions, you should be fine:
P1/P2 Coin
P1/P2 Start
Exit (Escape)
Pause - Not too near the escape so you don't accidently exit the game
Menu (Tab) - Keep as a shifted function if you have kids or friends that fiddle around with settings, use a dedicated button if you like to fiddle with the settings
Other admin buttons may be needed, depending on which other emulators you will be using for NES/SNES/N64. 

Pinball: This is another part advice is needed. I had a X arcade so with the 4 buttons on the sides, I mapped the L/R flippers and L/R nudge. After reading posts here the standard seems to be L flipper, L Magnasave, L upper flipper (then the same on the right). So am I correct that I need 3 buttons on each side (and 1 in the front for the launcher). I know a few of these share buttons with the P1 controls.

The first flipper is for the main lower flipper.

The second is wired for both upper flipper and Magnasave.  There aren't that many tables that use Magnasave, and none that I know of use both upper flipper and Magnasave.  By wiring both functions to one button, it keeps it simple and allows you to play pretty much every table ever designed with full functionality.



For people using buttons like Ultimarc's Goldleaf that only have two terminals, there is a way to wire this using two diodes so that the flipper can trigger both inputs, but the associated MAME player buttons won't trigger the other when you press it.



For the left and right nudge buttons, you might want to try putting it centered and below the two flipper buttons so they form a  point-down triangle or an L-shaped layout.

(Left side view)
  2    1       or      2    1
     3                         3

1. Left Flipper
2. Left Upper Flipper/Left Magnasave
3. Left Nudge

Test the layout on a cardboard box to verify it will work well for you at that height/angle/range to the monitor.

Forward nudge and launcher buttons might be difficult to reach, depending on how much overhang you have on the front of the CP.

Overhang on the sides can also interfere with reaching the flippers, L/R nudge.


Scott

[Zeenon]

Scott,

Will that parallel wiring work with the USB mini PAC? Last thing I want to do is short it out.

Z

[PL1]

Will that parallel wiring work with the USB mini PAC? Last thing I want to do is short it out.

The inputs are all at ~5v so there is no noticeable current flow between the inputs when they are connected.

When you press the Upper Flipper/Magnasave button, it is the same as pressing two buttons at once.

No problems that I've ever encountered with my USB Mini-Pac or AVR/KADE.


Scott

[Cynicaster]

You are correct typo on my part, so maybe P1, Pause, and Exit on top left and move P2 to the top right? In all the games I've played I've never used the Pause button.

That might work.  Really, there are all kinds of possibilities.

If you're not O.C.D. about symmetry, you could even have all the game controls inline across the center.  From left to right: P1 joy, P1 buttons, trackball, spinner, P2 joy, P2 buttons.  Share the P1 buttons between the joystick and trackball.  Share the P2 buttons between the joystick and spinner.  Place the P1/P2 start buttons in the top/center position, side by side, with admin buttons on upper left.  Efficient use of assets, and no knuckle-spraining obstructions downstream of the trackball.   

As for the pause button, I'm surprised you've never used it.  If you ever have a bunch of buddies over and get into games of 2-player DK or Galaga (for example), it doesn't take long before player 1 dies while player 2 is across the room talking or upstairs taking a squirt.  That's just one example.  Me, I sometimes like to take a sip of my beer between levels, and few games give you enough time. 

Also, don't rule out buttons on the front and sides of the control box.  My P1 and P2 coin-in buttons are on the front of my panel on their respective sides, and the fact that they're black and sort of hidden under the top panel "overhang" makes them pretty much invisible. 

Having TAB as a shift function is probably best so that it stays hidden.  A MAME menu popping up is going to confuse the children, techno-phobes, and drunk bozos in your midst; besides, most of the items in that menu are set-it-and-forget it anyway, so why have a permanent button for it?