Custom MAME build, help me out! :D

[swirlee]

Hey guys,

I'm getting ready to embark on a pretty big project for my modding/custom build skill level. I've been wanting to build a custom MAME cabinet for years and I've finally committed to the project by buying an empty cab to put it in. In my head, I have a lot of ideas I want this project to have and I'd like to inlist you good people to help me decide on my best options and to help solve technical obstacles I'm sure to encounter.

To start, here are a few picture of the cab:


I restored a Neo Geo cab a few years back, it's what initially got me into this whole MAME mess.




As you can see, it's a pretty nice cab to start with and the control panel gives me a lot of room.

So here is what I want to accomplish:

1.) Keep the whole thing under $1,000. Ideally I'd like to spend no more than $600, but I think thats unlikely.

2.) I want to play the widest variety of games possible. Everything from classic arcade, console, light gun, bowling/golf and on up to modern 3D fighters like Street Fighter IV etc.

3.) I want to put in the biggest and most versatile monitor I can. I'd really like to buy an arcade CRT to get that nice arcade feel, but I don't know how these will look running slightly more modern games. Maybe still badass? Maybe LCD is the way to go? I don't know, help me decide. the screenshots have a tape measure for reference to what size monitor I might be able to fit.

4.) Obviously I need a decently powerful PC. I know it doesn't take much to run emulated MAME games, but being that I want to run some newer 3D games like SF IV and maybe the Deer Hunter style games, I'll need something a bit beefier. Can anybody recommend an off the shelf PC capable of running these games? Something around $400? I know building my own setup is an option, but I'm feeling a bit lazy in this regard. There are tons of $200-$300 PCs for sale these days, but I dont think these can run SF without a video card and usually these cheapos don't have PCI slots to upgrade. What do you guys recommend?

5.)Controls! Of course with this setup I need the best button/joystick/trackball arrangements. I want to have plenty of buttons, so I can play all these games. Also which style/brand do you recommend?

Then there is all the other components I'll eventually need. Wiring, IPAC, speakers, etc... We'll get to that stuff when the time comes.

So there you go, Help me bring this sucker to life. I plan on taking lots of WIP shots to document the build and if any of you are in the LA area, maybe you can help me out or come play once it's done!

Thanks!

[swirlee]

Really? Nobody?  [BUMP!]

[slappyhooper]

He there! Welcome to the forum!. I'm pretty much the resident expert here on all things Mame, although I'm far too modest to post my best work here like some of these fellas.

I'll try to answer your questions as truthfully as I can, in the order they were posted.

5. Controls.  If you want to play the broadest range of games, I'd recommend at least 10 buttons per player, plus start and coin up buttons.  Now I've seen a lot of people doing silly things like arranging their paltry little six button configurations in neat little grids, but I say, that's not the way the mind works. You want to experiment. Drill a few holes in your Control Panel! You can always patch up the mistakes! The important thing is getting the buttons where they're comfortable for you. Personally, I'm partial to Putting eight buttons in a hexagram shape, and having the remaining buttons installed at toe level to use as the L/R buttons should the need arise.  This doesn't work for everybody, but I'm pretty dexterious and wear sandals all year round. The bottom line is you have to do what's comfortable for you!

Guns, I'll be honest with, I don't have much experience with. One of these other guys could probably answer your questions a little better regarding light guns.

Trackballs are important. Notice I said TRACKBALLS.  I've seen too many cabs on this forum with one little ball in the middle of the panel, which to me is an eyesore. Might as well call the machine the "Armstrong Arcade" and throw some Livestrong bracelets around your joysticks at that point. The thing to remember about trackballs is, more trackballs= better.
Your eyeballs aren't located in the center of your head are they? Hell no! Best advice is to put the trackballs in the middle of your P1 and P2 hexigonal button layout. This completes the mystical circles, and that's when the Control panel magic really starts happening.

4. Computer power.

There's two thought processess in this forum regarding computers. One side runs them on ridiculously underpowered PCs. Like a 386SX underclocked to 10 Mhz. Now, that might be ok for some of the classics, but I lean towards the higher end school of thought. For myself, I'd never put anything less than a Pentium 166 MX in my gaming rig. Now I know a lot of the people on this board are going to complain about computers like that being out of reach of most people, but I worked for 3 years cutting grass and shoveling snow to afford my rig, and I couldn't be happier. Check into the Packard Bell brand for the best off-the-shelf computers. They're not the prettiest, but they have nice innards.  You shouldn't have any problem running 99.99 % of MAME games with this, and if you throw a 16 MB Voodoo 2 video card in the beast, you'll be able to handle games like SFIV with 4x AA and all the visuals maxed.

3.  The monitor, to be honest with you comes down to what you prefer. If you want honest-to-God arcade realism, then CRT is the way to go. The downside is that it's hard to watch adult videos on a CRT if you install a video jukebox along with your front end. It really comes down to what you want to sacrifice-arcade realism, or your hi-def "collection".

2. It's pretty obvious you want to play the most amount of games. That's why if you install the twin Hexigon setups with the trackballs in the middle you're already almost there. I'm sure that somebody else can help you out with setting up the light guns. one thing to keep in mind when listening to some of these posers is that no matter what they tell you, you WON'T need a lightbar above your screen. That's just pure hokum to sell a worthless part. The dealers always try to upsell you on stuff like that. If you're perceptive, you'll avoid obvious rip-offs in your day to day life and only get the essentials. Like when I bought my car a few years back, I told the dealer I didn't need the airbag since I'm a very careful driver, but I needed the invisible rust inhibitor they spray on the underside of the cars to keep them from rusting.  Best 920 dollars I ever spent.

1.
Man. I don't know if you're going to be able to keep the entire thing in your budget and still get all the features you want. The problem with builds where you want it all is that you wind up getting nickle and dimed to death on the small things. You might be able to get by with with a little less if you're  dead set on staying inside your budget.  Matter of fact, I think I can hook it up.
for 1000, I'll send you.

1. Packard Bell Pentium 133. (No MMX, sorry, but still plenty fast)  I'll throw in the Voodoo 2 card for 200.00 extra.
2. (2) joysticks and eight buttons
3. 13" SVGA CRT monitor. (You'll be able to play all your favorites in their arcade glory on this bad boy)
4. (2) AT style keyboards for you to tear apart and hack into controllers
5. Some black construction paper to make a bezel out of. It's got some crayon drawings on the back, but no worries, you can hide that by flipping that to the other side!

So what do you say? Do we have a deal? PM me and we'll work out the details.

Oh, if anybody's interested, I have a slightly crash damaged Toyota Corolla with a flawless interior and no rust damage! Make an offer!

[slappyhooper]

1. If you really want all the features you listed, you'll probably find yourself going over budget, and here's why.
Joysticks/Trackball and buttons -160 ISH
Decent MAME computer           - 350 ISH
Keyboard encoder                   - 30   ISH
Monitor                                  - 50   ISH
Gas money                             -300 ISH (You'll need this for driving to and from your local hardware store for "One more thing"
Misc small parts                       150 ISH
what else......


The problem, is that when you set out to build a machine that does it all, you wind up with a really elastic budget. No lie.

2. Bang for the buck for a computer which plays the most games the bestest, seems to be in the Intel I3-I5 @ or above 3.5 GHZ range depending on who you ask. If you're buying off-the-shelf computers, budget at least 300+ for decent one which should play most games pretty well. SFIV isn't the most demanding game out there, but I'd still recommend discrete graphics to play it. If you lower the resolution, and settings you can probably squeeze close to 60 FPS out on the integrated Intel 4000 graphics which comes with the newer processors, but I'd still spend a few extra bucks on a decent video card. Say like 50 bucks or so.

3. Monitors aren't my strong point. Arcade Monitors cost a lot of coin. but you can achieve pretty good results with some TVs using Svideo inputs. The advantage to that is that they're really cheap or free anywhere on Craigslist. Lastly, there's LCD. It's what I used, and I love it, since it's easy to get 19" LCD monitors in 4:3 format very cheaply. (like 20-25 bucks seems to be the price range these days)
The downside is you won't get the same effect as you did with CRT monitors. When you can't see the scanlines, games look pretty pixely-they used to run at really low resolutions, so they're gonna look like that. You can do things like add scanlines in software and use AA to smooth out the games, but it's still not really, truly "authentic". Depends on what bothers you for this thing though. personally, the benefits of how small and light LCDs are is worth the tradeoff in image quality when playing the classics.

4. You hit the nail on the head with regards to your assessment of current PCs, although to be honest with you, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any PCs out there in most big-box retailers (except for those all-in-one deals) that doesn't have a PCI-E slot onboard these days. Check them out. Go to your local Best buy and find a few el-cheapo computers and pop the covers off.  If you do go off-the-shelf prebuilt computer for your mame box, make sure that the power supply is decent enough to handle a discrete video card if you buy it. If you want to play games like NFL Blitz then you'll need something around an I3 or I5 @3.5 GHZ. You can get by with a bit less for game like Tekken Tag and such, but not by much. If you're committing to purchasing a decent computer for the build, I'd just bite the bullet and build a computer with an I5 in it. You'll be happier in the long run, and you'll have the option of overclocking the processor to run more demanding games if that floats your boat.

5.
Joysticks are gonna be entirely up to what you like. You can get "decent" enough 8 way joysticks for about 9-12 bucks, which most people would find adequite. I prefer JFS style sticks, and those tend to run you about  30 bucks each. Talk to some of the guys here, but honestly, this is one time when it just comes down to user preference. You will probably want to invest 20 bucks in a dedicated 4 way joystick. This will let you play the old classics with an authentic feel. Past that, go with what you want.

lastly, seriously, does anybody want to buy a slightly used Pentium 133 with arcade controls and 13" monitor for 1000? This isn't going to last forever! PM ME!

[CheffoJeffo]

 

Best response I have seen in a while to "I want a machine that runs everything great, a display that looks good for everything, lots of buttons and I want it all for under $1000."

To the OP: Seriously, make some priorities in what you want to play and go from there. The biggest issue with your budget is going to be what games you want to play. If you something that is going to push a ton of bits and pixels with more demanding games, then your computer specs and monitor requirements are pretty well set, aren't they ?

[Cynicaster]

1.) Keep the whole thing under $1,000. Ideally I'd like to spend no more than $600, but I think thats unlikely.

It may be possible to keep it under a grand if you already have all the tools you need and don't screw anything up that requires a re-do.   

2.) I want to play the widest variety of games possible. Everything from classic arcade, console, light gun, bowling/golf and on up to modern 3D fighters like Street Fighter IV etc.

4.) Obviously I need a decently powerful PC. I know it doesn't take much to run emulated MAME games, but being that I want to run some newer 3D games like SF IV and maybe the Deer Hunter style games, I'll need something a bit beefier.

I think most would agree you're setting yourself up for a project that will do everything, but none of it well.  It all comes down to priorities.  Do you really need light guns?  They'd be first to go, if it were me.  As for the PC, if you decide that you can settle for the vast majority of working MAME titles and old console games, then right there you've dropped your PC cost from the $400 you're expecting to $15.  Something to think about if money is really a concern.

3.) I want to put in the biggest and most versatile monitor I can. I'd really like to buy an arcade CRT to get that nice arcade feel, but I don't know how these will look running slightly more modern games. Maybe still badass? Maybe LCD is the way to go? I don't know, help me decide. the screenshots have a tape measure for reference to what size monitor I might be able to fit.

Again, if budget is a concern, then I'm not sure you need a genuine arcade monitor.  I grabbed a 21" CRT monitor for $15 bucks, and even there I probably overpaid.  The thing looks nice and will probably outlive me.  Pain in the ass to work with though, because it weighs about three quarters of a ton.  LCD is far and away the easiest solution, but you probably want to hunt down a 4:3 model in the classifieds. 

5.)Controls! Of course with this setup I need the best button/joystick/trackball arrangements. I want to have plenty of buttons, so I can play all these games. Also which style/brand do you recommend?

Again, it depends on what you want to play, but I think a single trackball and 2 joysticks is a great general purpose setup.  Buttons are cheap so you might as well go with 6 buttons per side so you can play the fighters.  You'll need more than that for some console games, but you'll probably never use them, so I'd recommend going with 6 max. 

If you want to play classics like Donkey Kong and Frogger, you might want to think about some 4-way joystick capability.  There are products such as the Mag-Stick Plus that are switchable between 4- and 8-way in seconds, or you could find room for a dedicated 4-way stick.  Just make sure you research the products before you buy them to see what others are saying about them.  Only worry about 4-way stuff if you plan to "seriously" work on scores for any of those games.  If all you plan to do is boot up DK for a 5 minute boot once a year, the 8-ways will be more than adequate.  If you plan to play any of them in earnest, then you can bet that at least once a historic personal best score will be sabotaged by incorrect inputs caused by 8-way sticks. 

[GreggB]

FWIW

I would NOT just start randomly drilling holes in the control panel.  What I did was take a piece of paper, cup my hand on it and draw where my fingers rested comfortably as if I was holding them over buttons.  Then I drew appropriately sized circles in those spaces in 2 rows with and additional button near my thumb.  Once I had something that I felt might work, I drilled a piece of scrap wood and mounted my controls.  Once I had what I felt was good, I used that as a template for the control panel.

I've also been considering this interface: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,114744.0.html?PHPSESSID=iq1uvgpulcagv4h6lm1kjvu9o4

Other than that I would lean towards an IPac.

I also recently bought a spinner for classics like Tempest and Arkanoid.  Has a nice weighted feel and spins a long time : http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tornado-Spinner-Home-Video-Arcade-Spinner-MAME-tm-Compatible-/110958151035?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d59f057b

[paigeoliver]

The PC is the only thing you are going to put in the cabinet that is going to depreciate in value at any real rate, if you have to cut budget somewhere, then cut there. You can always replace it later. That $500 computer you put into it today will be worth $60 in 3 years. Sure being able to run everything on earth is nice, but a better PC gives you absolutely the least bang for the buck in your budget.  My scratchbuilt, new 27" D9200 arcade monitor, perfect 360 with robotron handles, new happ trackball, spinner and custom art frankencab is running an 8 or 9 year old PC and no one has ever noticed or complained about it.

If you have $1000 to budget, and you want that cabinet to be awesome, then get one of these monitors here with the bulk of your budget. These makvision (happ has two models) monitors are basically the last new CRT monitors left in the world. I have a similar model (WGD9200) in my cabinet and I have never been unhappy with how anything looked on it. While a lot of things just don't look right with an LCD (and a lot of the LCD tvs people re-purpose for their cabinets have unacceptable latency that they don't realize until later).

http://na.suzohapp.com/monitors/49271500.htm

Spend $100 (tops) on a used computer or reuse an older one you have, you can always rotate in your current desktop model when you replace it.
That leaves $300 which is plenty to populate your control panel.

[GreggB]

One other thought I had... instead of using wood... use cardboard.  Works just as well and is easier to work with

[PL1]

What I did was take a piece of paper, cup my hand on it and draw where my fingers rested comfortably as if I was holding them over buttons.

Also be sure to look at Slagcoin for many common button layouts you can print, tape to a cardboard box, and cut button holes for easy testing using real buttons.


Scott

[GreggB]

Thats a sweet site... where was that when I was making my layout?

[PL1]

Thats a sweet site... where was that when I was making my layout?

Right where it is now -- with links from literally hundreds of threads.   


Scott

[paigeoliver]

I hear the real pros just mold everything out of mud. All the ease of using cardboard, without having to waste money on scissors.

One other thought I had... instead of using wood... use cardboard.  Works just as well and is easier to work with

[swirlee]

Hey all! Thanks for the advice. Reading responses and thinking more about the project I think I've finally decided on the best solution.

First of all, I think I am going to stick with designing the control panel myself. 2 joysticks, 8 buttons a piece and one track ball. @PL1 - Thanks for the link! I'll most definitely use one of these layouts! Also can't you just buy the guts of an X-Arcade or a similar product rather than wiring everything completely by hand IPAC style? I think all I would need would be one of THESE correct? The X-Arcade 2 Player BYO Arcade Encoder USB/PS2?


Then there's the monitor. @Piageoliver I think you're right about splurging for that Makvision arcade monitor. I want to see Metal Slug in all it's fat pixeled glory. I think X-Arcade is selling the same one for $50 cheaper. Any idea how a XBOX 360 would look connected to one of these? I think rather than getting a heftier PC to run modern games it would be easier to buy a used 360 for stuff like Street Fighter IV.

The PC, yeah I'll try and grab a decent used one. Too many to choose from on craigslist anyhow!

I'll do my best to document the build and I'm sure I'll have more questions as the project progresses.   

 

[PL1]

If you're looking for encoders with prefab harnesses, consider the Mini-Pac Opti. with harness from Ultimarc.

Paradise has pre-crimped wires in 8 colors that you can cut to length and strip for very easy connection to screw terminals and pre-fab daisy chain grounds -- they have them in .110", .187", and .250".

8 buttons a piece

What do you have in mind that takes 8 player buttons, or are you thinking 6 player buttons + Coin + Start for each player?

Not sure what additional admin buttons you have in mind -- Exit, Pause, Menu, etc.


Scott

[paigeoliver]

Anything you hook up to that monitor should look good.

Don't use an x-arcade encoder, they have issues. You can look up the old threads about it if you really need the details.

[Gray_Area]

Am I the only one that noticed the oddness of that NeoGeo?  Or: one of them cabs is real large, or real small.

[swirlee]

I'll let you guess which one I have.   

[WindDrake]

Nice Mini MVS!

If you take a dive through the blog I threw up for my two recent cab builds, especially the first cab, you should get a pretty good idea of what this all can cost you.

http://wdarcade.wordpress.com/2011/04/page/2/

That's where I start talking prices, though I think I start with the cab, the next page should detail controls/etc.

As someone who fixes computers at the PCB-level for a living, I'm a big fan of AMD's hardware. Cheaper, faster, and significantly more reliable. The last good Intel Chipset was ICH10 (LGA775).

[Yenome]

He there! Welcome to the forum!. I'm pretty much the resident expert here on all things Mame, although I'm far too modest to post my best work here like some of these fellas.

I'll try to answer your questions as truthfully as I can, in the order they were posted.

5. Controls.  If you want to play the broadest range of games, I'd recommend at least 10 buttons per player, plus start and coin up buttons.  Now I've seen a lot of people doing silly things like arranging their paltry little six button configurations in neat little grids, but I say, that's not the way the mind works. You want to experiment. Drill a few holes in your Control Panel! You can always patch up the mistakes! The important thing is getting the buttons where they're comfortable for you. Personally, I'm partial to Putting eight buttons in a hexagram shape, and having the remaining buttons installed at toe level to use as the L/R buttons should the need arise.  This doesn't work for everybody, but I'm pretty dexterious and wear sandals all year round. The bottom line is you have to do what's comfortable for you!

Guns, I'll be honest with, I don't have much experience with. One of these other guys could probably answer your questions a little better regarding light guns.

Trackballs are important. Notice I said TRACKBALLS.  I've seen too many cabs on this forum with one little ball in the middle of the panel, which to me is an eyesore. Might as well call the machine the "Armstrong Arcade" and throw some Livestrong bracelets around your joysticks at that point. The thing to remember about trackballs is, more trackballs= better.
Your eyeballs aren't located in the center of your head are they? Hell no! Best advice is to put the trackballs in the middle of your P1 and P2 hexigonal button layout. This completes the mystical circles, and that's when the Control panel magic really starts happening.

4. Computer power.

There's two thought processess in this forum regarding computers. One side runs them on ridiculously underpowered PCs. Like a 386SX underclocked to 10 Mhz. Now, that might be ok for some of the classics, but I lean towards the higher end school of thought. For myself, I'd never put anything less than a Pentium 166 MX in my gaming rig. Now I know a lot of the people on this board are going to complain about computers like that being out of reach of most people, but I worked for 3 years cutting grass and shoveling snow to afford my rig, and I couldn't be happier. Check into the Packard Bell brand for the best off-the-shelf computers. They're not the prettiest, but they have nice innards.  You shouldn't have any problem running 99.99 % of MAME games with this, and if you throw a 16 MB Voodoo 2 video card in the beast, you'll be able to handle games like SFIV with 4x AA and all the visuals maxed.

3.  The monitor, to be honest with you comes down to what you prefer. If you want honest-to-God arcade realism, then CRT is the way to go. The downside is that it's hard to watch adult videos on a CRT if you install a video jukebox along with your front end. It really comes down to what you want to sacrifice-arcade realism, or your hi-def "collection".

2. It's pretty obvious you want to play the most amount of games. That's why if you install the twin Hexigon setups with the trackballs in the middle you're already almost there. I'm sure that somebody else can help you out with setting up the light guns. one thing to keep in mind when listening to some of these posers is that no matter what they tell you, you WON'T need a lightbar above your screen. That's just pure hokum to sell a worthless part. The dealers always try to upsell you on stuff like that. If you're perceptive, you'll avoid obvious rip-offs in your day to day life and only get the essentials. Like when I bought my car a few years back, I told the dealer I didn't need the airbag since I'm a very careful driver, but I needed the invisible rust inhibitor they spray on the underside of the cars to keep them from rusting.  Best 920 dollars I ever spent.

1.
Man. I don't know if you're going to be able to keep the entire thing in your budget and still get all the features you want. The problem with builds where you want it all is that you wind up getting nickle and dimed to death on the small things. You might be able to get by with with a little less if you're  dead set on staying inside your budget.  Matter of fact, I think I can hook it up.
for 1000, I'll send you.

1. Packard Bell Pentium 133. (No MMX, sorry, but still plenty fast)  I'll throw in the Voodoo 2 card for 200.00 extra.
2. (2) joysticks and eight buttons
3. 13" SVGA CRT monitor. (You'll be able to play all your favorites in their arcade glory on this bad boy)
4. (2) AT style keyboards for you to tear apart and hack into controllers
5. Some black construction paper to make a bezel out of. It's got some crayon drawings on the back, but no worries, you can hide that by flipping that to the other side!

So what do you say? Do we have a deal? PM me and we'll work out the details.

Oh, if anybody's interested, I have a slightly crash damaged Toyota Corolla with a flawless interior and no rust damage! Make an offer!

God i hope you're joking with the 1000 for that setup i mean really a voodoo 2 card for 200!? 13"in monitor. for once i agree with paige. i personally could do this build and keep it under 1k and thats with buying the 500 dollar multisync monitor. how can i do this cause i can build a pc that will play it all for 100 or less. least far as arcade games is going. if we talking just mame and other emulators any decent dual core would run all the games from those. if you want a serious list of what it would take and cost pm me. i already got one made.

[paigeoliver]

Really, a $100 bill taken into your local PC recycler is really all you ever need for mame. The bleeding edge stuff a high end PC enables usually doesn't have very mature emulation behind it yet (thus it STILL DOESN"T WORK RIGHT). While the newest PC games are starting to not really work in 640x480 anymore, so there isn't much reason to go high end to use those, although PC game system requirements have been at a standstill since the xbox 360 came out, so that is really not even an important point.

Monitor and then controls in that order are the way to spend your build money. The PC is an afterthought.

[slappyhooper]

Ya know, I spent an hour thinking up my responses to the original questions.
The fact that anybody took my responses seriously...WOW.  I recommended that he randomly drill button holes, install them in a hexigram shape with dual trackballs in the center of the hexigram shaped buttons......

 




On a serious note though....if he adds in guns, spinners, trackball, and (probably) race wheel, it's just feature creep waiting to happen......

[paigeoliver]

On a serious note though....if he adds in guns, spinners, trackball, and (probably) race wheel, it's just feature creep waiting to happen......

That is just newbie enthusiasm I hope. My frankencab has a spinner and 4-way that absolutely never get used because they are in the exact same uncomfortable spots that everyone else puts them in.

[jammin0]

Ya know, I spent an hour thinking up my responses to the original questions.
The fact that anybody took my responses seriously...WOW.  I recommended that he randomly drill button holes, install them in a hexigram shape with dual trackballs in the center of the hexigram shaped buttons......

I enjoyed it, well worth the hour writing it.  Plus I remember when I was in high school and I got my first voodoo card.  Played tomb raider like no one's business.  Sould have kept it, if only I knew someone would pay me top dollar for it.

[Yenome]

i would say get rid of the overly extended control panel that is on the cab now. if you want the most controls for playing arcade games you will need
1. two 4/8 way switchable sticks happs or sanwa are great choice
2. 12-20 buttons depending on how you set the cp. least being 12. 6 per player. i have a two player 7 button layout but i lilke for 4 buttons in a row for neogeo. i use the 7th button as a shift button to do coin and start.
3. 3" trackball
4. two ultimarc aimtrak guns.
5. something for stick and button interface. ipac most popular xin-mo from ggg comes to mind as well
6. optipac for the trackball interface.
7. depending on how much you play spinner games adding one of those wouldnt hurt but i dont play em so i leave em off.

course i also prefer 32"+ for light guns. unless you can get some wireless ones worked out then i go light gun on 25 or 27in.
The best thing to do is get you some cardboard or cheap thin wood. particle works. and lay out a cp and test it out once you have all required parts for at least a 2player panel. If you want a nice replacement panel design for that cab i would check out lusid's flashback it using the same style cab and has a nice panel that would fit two player 6-8 buttons ea start and coin and trackball. even enough room for admin buttons but i stay away from them and use a wireless keyboard.

[Gray_Area]

NeoGeo was past my time, so I wouldn't know about minis, though I'm sure there weren't any in the places I went to that had games.

That is just newbie enthusiasm I hope. My frankencab has a spinner and 4-way that absolutely never get used because they are in the exact same uncomfortable spots that everyone else puts them in.

My 4-way is closer to the player, and my spinner is up next to my left admin buttons. Both are perfect reach for my average length arm. Of course, I....like.....sit *down* at my rig, so I'm not leaning over the thing....

[swirlee]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the replies! Been AWOL for a bit. Finally got my taxes done and now it's time to sit back and wait for the return so I can blow it all on arcade parts!

So @paigoliver I think you talked me into buying one of the Makvision monitors. I really want that CRT feel. I have a few questions as to which monitor to get as there seem to be two models. First off there is the

http://na.suzohapp.com/monitors/49271500.htm Why is it listed as 27"/29" when it just seems to be a 27" monitor? Also this one only runs at 640 x 480. The other Makvision monitor

http://na.suzohapp.com/monitors/49271700.htm Seems to also be a 27" but runs at a higher resolution, 800 x 600. Wouldn't I be better off with this guy instead as it looks like it would be more compatible and can probably run at multiple resolutions? The price is marginal so that's not a factor is choosing which one.

A pros a cons of each or just a flat out, buy this monitor because explanation is appreciated!

Thanks!

[paigeoliver]

27" and 29" arcade monitors are the same size. The japanese measuring method measures non-viewable parts of the tube, while the american style of measuring does not.

The more expensive one seems to support 640x480 resolution and 800x600 resolution.
The cheaper one supports 15khz, 24khz and 31khz (the 31khz is 640x480 VGA).

You want the cheaper one if you are going to be using an arcadeVGA card or any of the other methods of putting out the native 15khz resolution that most games ran at (or the more uncommon 24khz). If you aren't going to do that then the higher maximum resolution of the more expensive one is better since that enables a much larger selection of PC games than the cheaper one does.

[swirlee]

Hmmok the size measuring methods make sense now. Just strange that the cheaper model doesn't advertise itself teh same way since it's teh same size.

What I really plan on doing is playing mostly retro console and arcade games, atari on up to dreamcast/ps1 days and hopefully hookup a used xbox 360 to play the newer stuff like street fighter IV... etc...

So in this scenario which would you say is the better choice? Also can you recommend which arcade video card you are referencing? I know I've seen a few on various sites, but I don't know which is the best for the job.

Thanks!

[paigeoliver]

I would forget about the Xbox 360 idea it adds a lot of complication for no real results. SF IV is also on PC anyway (as is almost any xbox title playable with an arcade panel).

http://www.ultimarc.com/avgainf.html

That is the video card I was talking about. If you want to use THAT then buy the cheaper monitor that has the 3 resolutions. If you don't want to use that then buy the more expensive one that supports 800x600.

I don't want to make the decision for you, although I am pretty sure you would be happy with the results of either one.

[Yenome]

i dont have a problem making the decision for you. go with multi sync monitor. from a strictly arcade standing you will be alot happier running every game in near perfect resolutions. (some have odd resolutions i think, not any i play tho) if i had the money i would have one in my cab instead of the 32in behemoth i got. and yea the videocard from ultimarc is a great buy too. or one that is compatible with soft15khz.

[swirlee]

Don't worry, nobody is making the decision for me... but yeah.

Which one is the multi-sync? the more expensive 800x600? I mean, I will be playing arcade games on this thing but I'm most interested in retro console games. NES to PS1 era

Also if I was to buy the 800x600 monitor would I still need that arcade video card? As I mentioned before I want to run games like street fighter IV as well and I don't think that video card could run it. Really want to order this thing soon and I'm too much of a novice to know the pros and cons of each of these monitors.

[paigeoliver]

If you want Street Fighter IV then get the 800x600 one, it doesn't need or can't use the special video card.

[swirlee]

OK guys, monitor ordered. It should be here next week. I also bought the X-Arcade 2 Player BYO Arcade Encoder. Was that a smart choice? I hope so, I don't want to make this build too difficult.

Before I was asking what kind of PC to use, then I came to my senses and realized I have a couple year old Dell Precision laptop that I never use, so might as well format that sucker as opposed to hunting down some used box.

So few more questions. I was looking at arcade stick and button layouts and most seem to feature 8 buttons per player. What are the 2 extra buttons typically used for? Also does it make sense to have two other buttons around my track ball to serve as some kind of selection right/left mouse click while using the PC/MAME?

I was shopping for pushbuttons and was a little bummed that most styles didn't come in a very wide range of colors. Is there a better button or place to shop that offers pushbuttons in more colors? I was looking at these on the suzo happ site: http://na.suzohapp.com/pushbuttons/5896xxl.htm

Also, I think at some point I saw a wiring "kit" for all the buttons and joysticks, trackballs or something on one of the arcade sites, but havent been able to find it again.

Lastly, how do most people power on their cabs? wire a single switch to a power strip that turns everything on? How does this power on the PC? 

 

[PL1]

I also bought the X-Arcade 2 Player BYO Arcade Encoder. Was that a smart choice?

A little late to ask this. 

Definitely would not be my first choice encoder based on many factors.  YMMV.

I was looking at arcade stick and button layouts and most seem to feature 8 buttons per player. What are the 2 extra buttons typically used for?

The panels that use 8 buttons are for console game support IIRC.

Some Slagcoin layouts show 8 buttons, but most people only drill 6 holes -- or 7 for a Neo Geo 4-in-a-row.

I was shopping for pushbuttons and was a little bummed that most styles didn't come in a very wide range of colors. Is there a better button or place to shop that offers pushbuttons in more colors? I was looking at these on the suzo happ site: http://na.suzohapp.com/pushbuttons/5896xxl.htm

Where have you been looking?

GGG has a great variety of concave and convex Happ as well as Arcade Prime buttons.

Ultimarc carries 7 colors for the Happ pushbuttons and 8 colors for the Goldleafs.

Paradise has a variety of IL pushbuttons -- concave, convex, and translucent. (IL buttons are comparable to Happ buttons)

ArcadeEmulator.net also has a good selection of Happ and Ultimarc products. (Protip: Avoid the Happ "Ultimate" line of buttons.)

If those sites don't carry the color you want, you can also order white buttons and Rit Dye.

Also, I think at some point I saw a wiring "kit" for all the buttons and joysticks, trackballs or something on one of the arcade sites, but havent been able to find it again.

IMHO Paradise has the best variety of wiring products including pre-fab daisy chains, individual precrimped wires, and .100" female header to QDs.

These come in a viriety of colors and QD sizes.

Randy and Andy also have wiring kits, often packaged with their encoders.


Scott

[swirlee]

Hi PL1

Thanks for the quick reply.  Do you mind dumbing down and elaborating a few of your explanations? And also, please anyone else chime in.

What is the best encoder if not the X-Arcade? I can always return it. Bear in mind I am going for simplicity of use/installation and I probably won't need every feature under the sun. This is going to be a 2 player setup with a trackball.

I do plan on playing a lot of console games on this setup, but really just the nintendo to playstation 1 era of games. Think 6 buttons would still suffice? I might end up just doing 8 to make it a little future proof. Plus I am a pretty big Neo Geo fan and like the idea of arranging them in a similar 4 buttons fashion.

I've ran into most of these online shops for pushbuttons. Each style/brand only seems to have the "primary" colors, no real in between hues.

As far as wiring goes, I'm not sure exactly what all I'd need. The female daisy chains for the ground/negative correct? And then individual wires leading to whatever encoder I ultimately end up using? Do trackballs usually plug into these encoders as well, or do USB ones exist yet? Also, I'm pretty interested in getting a few light guns setup for this.

Also, any opinions on the power up options? Thanks!

 

[ark_ader]

Stick with the X Arcade controller, you can then have plenty of console expansion.

The only reason for the apprehension for the X Arcade controller is the wiring.  But if you follow the instructions you will be fine.

Your CP layout should be what is the most comfortable.

PC?  Well it all depends on what games you play.  Classics? a Xbox1 with COinOPS would be suitable.

Anything beefier would be looking at a 3Ghz bare bone PC and add parts or just build it from the many examples on this site.

[mgb]

Good luck with the project.
  I'd advise you to definitely keep researching to keep from making costly mistakes.
It seems that you want this machine to do a lot on a kinda tight budget.
 
   I agree, the multi sync CRT is great.
I have a 27" multi sync CRT in my cab and I love it.
Though if I were to build another, I'd probably go LCD due to price and weight.

I see you reference SuzoHapp on your parts. Your best ordering from the sources that pl1 has listed.

Best advice is to take a good long look at the project announcements area to see what others are doing and what works for them.
Be careful about just wanting everything, especially on a budget.
You said you want 8 buttons per player but then you asked what the extra 2 buttons are for.
Be careful with that because if you just throw a bunch of controls in there because it seems to cover every single game made, you will end up with a cluttered useless control panel.

Personally I believe in keeping it simple and high quality.

[PL1]

What is the best encoder if not the X-Arcade? I can always return it. Bear in mind I am going for simplicity of use/installation and I probably won't need every feature under the sun. This is going to be a 2 player setup with a trackball.

My concern about the X-arcade encoder is based on threads like this one.

Based on your description, I suggest you look at the Ultimarc U-Trak trackball and the "Mini-Pac Opti. with harness and USB cable".

The U-Trak plugs directly into the Mini-Pac harness.

I've ran into most of these online shops for pushbuttons. Each style/brand only seems to have the "primary" colors, no real in between hues.

To get those "in-between" hues, you have 2 options:
1. RGB LED buttons and a controller -- expensive, but you can set exact colors and blink/flash.
2. Order white buttons and Rit dye -- get extra buttons to experiment with

As far as wiring goes, I'm not sure exactly what all I'd need. The female daisy chains for the ground/negative correct? And then individual wires leading to whatever encoder I ultimately end up using?

That is a good description of the wiring for the buttons.

Do trackballs usually plug into these encoders as well, or do USB ones exist yet?

The wiki has an intro to the subject of encoders.

Encoders for buttons fall under either keyboard-type or gamepad-type.

Optical encoders are used for spinners and trackballs.

The Mini-Pac opti. that I mentioned above has a keyboard-type encoder and an optical encoder in one board.


Scott

[swirlee]

Thanks for letting me in on the issues with the X-Arcade encoder. Seems like mapping ctrl, alt, delete buttons to allow 9 buttons presses sorta solves the issue. If I have a friends over and they're mashing that many buttons, they deserve to have a few inputs be missed. I just chose this encoder because I order the monitor from X-Gaming and it just seems convenient to order other parts on top of it.

Still a bit confused why people seem to think this build will cost more than $1,000. My empty cab cost me $75, sure the monitor was expensive, but it'll be worth it. Then there is PC, as some pointed out a used $100 machine does the job, but I decided to use a decently powerful laptop that I never use anymore so that takes care of that... add in buttons, joysticks, trackball and wiring and I think I'll be well under my budget.

My monitor should get here in the next few days, pretty excited for this. I'm going to have to figure out a way to extend inputs out of the cab so I can hookup some of my retro consoles when I don't want to run MAME.

It's my understanding that setting up MAME, organizing all the ROMS, installing Hyperspin and all the artwork/video is a pain in the ass? Are there some good tutorials out there for the novice?

Also, still no comment as to how some of you power up your cabs... I get wiring an external switch to a power strip inside, but how do you power up your PC at the same time?