Strange Trackball Behavior

[STL_Steve]

 I have the Happcontrols 3" high-ball Trackball, and I have noticed some odd behavior with respects to its movement. Whenever I spin the trackball Vertically or horizontally the trackball will spin on its path for second or two, then it will spin at an angle until its stops. With this trackball there are three rollers, one vertical one horizontal and one at a 45 degree angle. Its like the angled one is dictating the spin of the ball. It will go straight for a second or two, until the force becomes weak enough that the trackball then spins at a diagonal. This to me doesn't seem like it can be right, yet I have tried spinning the trackball in all various positions before the trackball was mounted. I held it upside-down, sideways, you name it and it always behaved the same way. Just wondering if anyone else has had this problem and if there is something I can do to fix it.

[PacManFan]

This happens becuase there are 3 rollers, 1 for x 1 for y , and 1 for x-y. When the ball starts to slow and lose it's momentum, the xy roller has as much traction as the x or y roller, and starts to pull the ball in the diaganol direction. There really isn't too much you can do about it, besides make sure the x and y bearings are well lubed.
-PMF

[STL_Steve]

So my next question would be, are there better trackballs to use? I am going to build another cabinet and would like the best overall trackball for mutl-game use.  Maybe this is a dumb question but are there trackballs with 4 rollers?

[DAmnb]

Like PacManFan said brake out the lube and its should be fine, never seen a trackball with 4 rollers but im not that well schooled when it comes to trackballs

[PacManFan]

I'm not aware of any 4 roller trackballs. I think because it would make it too difficult to spin in the x or y direction without causing too much friction.
-PMF

[ErikRuud]

A four roller track ball would have a tendency to go in the x or y directions and have a problem with the diagonals.

[STL_Steve]

I agree with you, I just thought due to my lack of trackball knowledge, there might be something better out there than what I had.  

Any recomendations on a lubricant?  I have the typical household 3in1 oil but I would think something else is in order like a silicone lubricant?

[u_rebelscum]

It's going diagonal be 'cause either the X and Y bearings are harder to roll than the idle (diagonal) bearings, or the X and Y rollers have less traction with the ball than the idle rollers.

You might be able to switch around the bearings, but it's better to lube all the bearings, make sure they're are broken in, and clean all the lubricant off the rollers and ball.

TheRealBobRoberts has some good info on trackballs; here's one on lubing and braking in.

[ashardin]

I guess my question would be why?  I've got an Imperial ball that does the same thing but all movements are recorded before the ball spins "crooked".

So when that pull is introduced, it is not registered in any games I have played.

[STL_Steve]

I disassembled the trackball last night and each bearing (to my naked eye) moved very free and spun without any resistance.   As soon as I put the ball in they sounds as if there is almost too much weight from the ball itself.  I am investigating buying a Ultimarc 2 1/4" trackball to see if I get better results.

In regards to ashardin: Imagine in centipede, you are on the far right of the screen and the last centipede is on the far left and getting ready to drop down another row. You spin the trackball from right to left, as the trackball slows down, the motion of the trackball goes from right to left, to diagonally up.  Your player now dives up and into oncoming centipede segments and spiders or anything else.  It should just slide across from right to left not right to left then up at the last second.  

[ashardin]

I hear ya, I guess I just play differently.

Good luck getting it working!

[grafixmonkey]

I have the same behavior on my ball.  It's mounted at an angle though.  Maybe that's contributing?  do you have a flat panel or an angled one?

[STL_Steve]

I have an angled panel, but I have taken it out and held it at every angle (including level) and it always behaves the same way. I will apply some silicone lube to the bearings and see if that has any effect on it.  

[u_rebelscum]

I disassembled the trackball last night and each bearing (to my naked eye) moved very free and spun without any resistance.   As soon as I put the ball in they sounds as if there is almost too much weight from the ball itself.  I am investigating buying a Ultimarc 2 1/4" trackball to see if I get better results.

Dude, lube and break in before even thinking of getting new one.  Or else you'll have to lube and break in the new one, too.  My wico 2 1/4" is worst at turning diagonal than any of my 3" ever were.  Then again, I've played a lot more with my 3 inchers, so maybe my "baby" TB will improve to the 3" level after more breaking in.  Note too, I bet how much the diagonal problem shows varies case by case even with the same type.

One of the problems/features of Happs TBs are that they are loud.  Either they get a little quiter with more play, or I'm getting use to it.    Seriously, my happs is now not that much louder than my betson or wico, while at first it was a lot louder.

Besides the bearings, the ball and the rollers need to be broken in too.  This can be done by (after re-lubing the bearings), with the TB together, press firmly (but not all your weight) down on the ball and roll in a circular motion for a little bit, freespin, repeat.  I think this rubs down the bumps (if any) off the rollers and ball, besides breaking in the bearings.  (I thought I first read this at TRBR, but can't find it there ATM.)

Other things to check if the motion is very bad:
Is the case on too tight, making the ball rub against it?
Does the case have any extra plastic pieces that should have been trimmed off?
Are the rollers and bearings fully seated down in their places, or sitting up on top of something?
Are the rollers over worn?
Are the rollers of different age or material?

I've heard of the first one, seen the second on my built-by-parts high ball happs TB (my second happs), caused the third, and read the last two in arcade manuals.

[STL_Steve]

Thanks for the advice.  It wasnt like I would go by the trackball just for giggles, I am in the planning stages of cabinet #2 so it would have been used.    

I will take it apart tonight and get to work on it.  Thanks for the detailed response.

[dphirschler]

As far as I am aware, the Happs 3" trackball is identical to the Atari Centipede (or is the Cenetipede trackball 2 1/4"?).  I have the Happs 3" and I love it.  I can't imagine a nicer trackball.  Mine is not the "high ball" version if that makes any difference.


Darryl

[u_rebelscum]

As far as I am aware, the Happs 3" trackball is identical to the Atari Centipede (or is the Cenetipede trackball 2 1/4"?).  I have the Happs 3" and I love it.  I can't imagine a nicer trackball.  Mine is not the "high ball" version if that makes any difference.


Darryl

FWIW, there is only one difference, but it's pretty big.

The happs "normal" TB is exactly the same as the old atari (except for newer sensor boards).

The happs high lip, aka golden tee, TB is exactly the same as the other happs 3" TBs except for one piece, the top half of the case.

The happs high ball TB is exactly the same as the other happs 3" TBs, except for one piece, the top half of the case. (again)

High lip next to normal case top; notice the taller round lip, and the top of the rest of the case was lowered to do this.  The top of the lip is the same height above the ground for both of these; the same amount of ball shows above the case, the the taller lip lets the high lip model to be mounted on thicker control panels.


High lip next to high ball case top.  (Not nearly as good a pic )  However, you should be able to see the whole high ball top is lower than the high lip top.  This lets more of the ball poke out of the case.