Front End for Public Coin-op

[CoryBee]

-I have no plans for anything, but the thought crossed my mind-

Are there any solutions to make an on location, quarter eating front-end + game software?

I know MAME is out of the question, and I would respect that. The 60 in 1 boards and the like have a really crappy menu compared to PC front ends. I was hoping there was something that could combine the best of both worlds.

Only thing I could think up was an FE, let's say MalaFE, and purchased copies of PC games related to Arcade games. "Atari's Greatest Hits" and things like pac man hits, etc. If you own the titles than I see no moral issue with using a NoCD patch on the individual programs.

Shortcuts in MalaFE, no MAME......Profit? ? ? ? 

[SammyWI]

I believe that with purchased commercial software you are only licensed for private home use.  No quarter munching allowed.  Possibly there could be some open source stuff that would have license terms allowing that.  Or something you wrote yourself would work for sure.  No idea about the front end.

I know your question is theoretical but it's going to get side tracked unless you are theoretically legal.

[CoryBee]

Yea you are probably correct with this. But is this treading any finer line than a multi-board?

On a similar note, is there any other arcade emulator that isn't MAME?

[degenatrons]

I did some investigation myself recently after my uncle asked if I would build him an arcade machine with coin slot for use in his pub.

First thing I did was check out the license that comes with the arcade compilation games,  like Taito Legends and Namco Museum.  It seems that these all have the same "private use only" license and there is usually a notice on the box,  or in the instructions that states "not to be used for pay and play".
I contacted Namco,  Taito and some other companies to find out more and to ask for their advise, and erm,  not surprisingly,  I never received a response.

I had a search around for public domain roms.  PD roms can be used legally in a pay to play environment so long as the owner has a gaming license.
I found a site here with a limited selection of roms.

https://sites.google.com/site/jbrodack/

There are no all time greats  .  If you want legal for public use then this is about your only option.
You also need to check licenses for your operating system and emulation software are valid for public use.

BTW - There are lots of other emulators besides MAME.

[CheffoJeffo]

Yea you are probably correct with this. But is this treading any finer line than a multi-board?

The line isn't particularly fine -- the multiboards are not licensed (exception being the Exidy 440) -- and the companies who put out the compilations are still around.

Also of concern is being able to assemble a route-worthy rig.

[CoryBee]

route-worthy rig?

One that can stand the test of children and adults alike beating the controls to all hell?

[CheffoJeffo]

route-worthy rig?

One that can stand the test of children and adults alike beating the controls to all hell?

Yep ... and well-secured and reliable internals.

[rCadeGaming]

I think if you actually own a PCB, it would be pseudo-legal to use a MAME ROM of it in a cab.

For example, buy several popular PCB's and store them on the premises, then build a MAME cab only running these games.

For me it would be excruciating to play MAME when the real PCB is sitting right there, but for the end-user in this case, selecting games through a front-end would be more feasible than switching PCB's; and the multicab would take up less space than several dedicated cabs.

Of course then you have to worry about how to handle things like the customer putting in a coin before loading a game, or if the game is quit while there are unused coins inserted.

This probably isn't technically legal, but neither were a lot of things in real arcades, like unlicensed multicarts and bootlegs.  Who is actually going to come to your location and regulate this?

[MTPPC]

The question entirely neglects the challenge of passing the credit from the front end to the game. While a 60-in-1 might not have the best emulation, the front-end is very functional with regard to coin up. I think the biggest problem is exiting a specific game. Would that be done automatically or only if credits fell to zero? There are a lot of functional questions that go unnoticed until you try an actual implementation. The 60-in-1 is the way it is because the designers made the unit functional for location. Certainly it could be prettied up and re-engineered to look like something from the 2000's, but the basic functions of game selection and exit would certainly remain the same.

[CheffoJeffo]

Using MAME in a commercial setting violates the MAME license. Nothing pseudo about it (and since the xx- ,xxx- and xxxx-in-one boards are MAME, they violate the MAME license as well).

If you own all the PCBs, then it is probably a better idea to grab a JAMMA switcher anyway and avoid the front-end.

There was a lemony fresh piece of code written some years back to support coin drops in the front end, but I would be wary about searching it out ... it was, as I said, lemony, but some versions were not so fresh.

Having said all that, if I wanted to have a front-end on an emulation-based machine on route, I would choose the easy way and use a coin door with lockout coils and simple lock out the mechs until a game has been selected. Easy peasy, no lemon squeezy.

[rCadeGaming]

Ok, well it's pseudo in the sense that you would get away with it, like operators running bootlegs.

If you own all the PCBs, then it is probably a better idea to grab a JAMMA switcher anyway and avoid the front-end.

For us, yes.  For someone unfamilar with the machine, not so much.

Having said all that, if I wanted to have a front-end on an emulation-based machine on route, I would choose the easy way and use a coin door with lockout coils and simple lock out the mechs until a game has been selected. Easy peasy, no lemon squeezy.

That's genius.  I would probably include a highly visible notice in the front-end, saying "choose game before inserting coins" so the user understands why it won't take coins.

You still have to address the problem of quitting the game with unused credits left though.

[CheffoJeffo]

If you own all the PCBs, then it is probably a better idea to grab a JAMMA switcher anyway and avoid the front-end.

For us, yes.  For someone unfamilar with the machine, not so much.

In my experience, people have a much easier time dealing with a button that says "switch games" than dealing with a front-end. I have cabinets with each option and I've never once been asked how the switcher works, but have to deal with questions about the front ends fairly regularly.

Another solution (and I can't remember if somebody has done it before ... it sounds familiar to me) is to create a simple coin bank circuit board that sits between the coin mech and the encoder. The board increments the bank on coin drop, displays the bank balance via numeric LED and then sends a pulse to the encoder on a button press. You drop coins in to coin-up the "bank" and hit a button to transfer a coin from the bank to the encoder. Making those buttons light up only when a game has been selected would help prevent user error (or could create a button lockout circuit).

In any event, far too much trouble for far too little payout, even if you go the "pseudo" route and then skip things like getting a coin-op license, tax tag and insurance (requirements varying by locale).

[rCadeGaming]

In my experience, people have a much easier time dealing with a button that says "switch games" than dealing with a front-end. I have cabinets with each option and I've never once been asked how the switcher works, but have to deal with questions about the front ends fairly regularly.

Is there a dedicated button for each cab, or do you have to use one or two buttons to cycle through?  Either way you're limited on how many games would be reasonable to include, and also limited by having to physically fit all the PCB's inside the cabinet.

I can certainly see how there could be confusion about a front-end, but it could be simplified to make everything straight forward.

In any event, far too much trouble for far too little payout

Maybe with enough development, it will be worth it at some point.  Right it's just kind of a what if.  Just thinking out loud.

even if you go the "pseudo" route and then skip things like getting a coin-op license, tax tag and insurance (requirements varying by locale).

Now this is the stuff I wouldn't skip.  A source of government revenue is going to be much more likely to be enforced than copyright stuff on twenty or thirty year old games..

[paigeoliver]

All the X in 1 boards are running mame anyway and I have seen them on location multiple times. If you are looking for someone to tell you a nice legal way to do what you are looking to do then purchase a licensed multigame machine (there are several) and put that out on location, that is your only legal option. You will also need a business license, insurance, and likely both a state and local tax stamp on your machine. It will earn less than $10 a month and eventually the location owner will ask you to get it out of there because the electricity it uses isn't worth his split of the coin drop.

[yotsuya]

Just to second the last two posts- you'd probably have more of a chance of getting popped for having an unlicensed, untaxed game on site than you would getting a call from Namco's lawyers. I'm not sure either is preferable.

[CoryBee]

I love you guys for the energy put into this question.

Like I said I don't have any plans for something like this, just knocking around thoughts with you fellas. 

Learned some new info as well, I thought the 60 - 1 did a hardware emulation of some sorts......did not know it had integrated MAME. What about the ArcadeSD boards.....Same thing?

[CoryBee]

Also, I figure you could use one of these to intercept the encoder



And just allow them to play around with whatever games\emulators that are on your front end on (free play\pressing a coin button) for however long the timer is still ticking, then top up time with more coins.....

[paigeoliver]

The arcadeSD boards are emulated. They are said to not be mame though. They are supposed to be kind of operator friendly. But that is a pretty pricey board, by the time you buy one of those and set it up then you aren't all that far off buying a used ultracade, arcade legends or similar and running that and being fully legal.

I love you guys for the energy put into this question.

Like I said I don't have any plans for something like this, just knocking around thoughts with you fellas. 

Learned some new info as well, I thought the 60 - 1 did a hardware emulation of some sorts......did not know it had integrated MAME. What about the ArcadeSD boards.....Same thing?

[Mental]

ArcadeSD. Very operator friendly. Awesome menu/interface. No MAME.