Can you hookup a Happ trackball to Apache push/pull spinner?

[equlizer]

I have the main board version that does support it (so it says)  Which wires go where? This is my first trackball

[PL1]

I have the main board version that does support it (so it says)  Which wires go where? This is my first trackball

The trackball works like a mechanical mouse.

Further details and better pictures here and there's an explanation of quadrature waveforms here.

There are 4 wires per axis leading to the encoder:
1. 5v - operating voltage for the LED
2. Data A
3. Data B
4. Ground (Sometimes jumpered inside the trackball case, leaving one axis with only 3 wires)

If you accidently swap Data A for Data B, you are swapping quadrature waveform A for waveform B which the encoder translates as turning the other way.



Page 11 of the Apache Manual shows where the data lines X1, X2, Y1, and Y2 connect. (lower left)

You should be able to get 5v and ground for the trackball from either the terminals on the right side of the same board (see page 8 of the manual) or from a PC Molex connector.


Scott

[equlizer]

Thats way over my head but thank you for the detailed reply   A yes or no would have been good too    I just have to figure out what wire is what coming from the trackball.

[PL1]

Thats way over my head but thank you for the detailed reply   A yes or no would have been good too    I just have to figure out what wire is what coming from the trackball.

Ultimarc describes Happ trackball wiring colors and general troubleshooting here.

Black (2 wires) - GND
Red (2 wires) - +5V
Purple - X1
Blue - X2
Yellow - Y1
Green - Y2


Scott

[equlizer]

K its hooked up but the trackball is not working.  And my spinner goes all over the place now.  Is there a jumper i need to change or maybe hook it up to z and x instead of x and y?   

Just to make sure the Blue and Purple wires are Y axis, Green and Yellow are X axis?

[PL1]

K its hooked up but the trackball is not working.  And my spinner goes all over the place now.  Is there a jumper i need to change or maybe hook it up to z and x instead of x and y?   

The owner's manual linked above has directions on how to set the spinner to Z-axis operation.

If you change the spinner to Z-axis, there is a method here describing recompiling MAME to work around Windows handling of Z-axis as 1:4 (1 encoder transition=4 steps) as opposed to X- or Y-axis as 1:1 (1 transition=1 step).

This is probably the best plan to keep the spinner and trackball sensors from confusing the encoder.  The trackball will act like a mouse (X-Y) and the spinner like the scroll wheel. (Z)

Just to make sure the Blue and Purple wires are Y axis, Green and Yellow are X axis?

Only if you mounted the trackball housing turned either 90 or 270 degrees.

According to the Ultimarc page, blue and purple are X-axis. (horizontal)

Green and yellow are Y-axis. (vertical)

If you're having problems, start by just connecting the Y-axis.

Once you do that, plug it in and see if the trackball works for vertical. (you might have the trackball turned 90 or 270 degrees) 

If the vertical is backward, swap wires.

The other possible problem is if the trackball is "active-low" and the encoder is "active-high" or vice versa.  (We'll look into that possibility if isolating the trackball connections to just the vertical axis doesn't work right.)


Scott

[equlizer]

Got the trackball working but now the spinner wont work.  push and pull do but thats all.  I did not change any jumpers.  This is frustrating   Even after unplugging the trackball the spinner still wont work!!

[PL1]

Try this:

1. Change the jumper to move the spinner to the Z-axis. Page 8 of the manual PDF, first diagram, just below center on the left.

2. Remap the controls in MAME.


Scott
EDIT: You can find the manual at http://web.archive.org/web/20140511031735/http://www.apachecontrols.com/ApacheControlsBlackhawk.pdf.

[equlizer]

Ive tried re mapping everything in mame but games dont recognize the spinner on Z.  eg.  when i go to map it to say: Dial V analog and spin the spinner, it does see Mouse Z but thats as far as i get.

I have no idea how to recompile mame   Im running ver 0.143u5 sept 6 2011)

[PL1]

The recompile mentioned adjusts MAME's handling of the z-axis from 4 steps per transition to 1 step per transition.

As long as MAME sees/maps the control, Games should work without recompiling, they'll just be a little jumpy compared to X- or Y-axis configurations.

When you're in Windows, does the spinner work properly as a scroll wheel?

Have you tried a different game?


Scott

[equlizer]

Windows does not see it at all at the Z axis.  I got it to work but its now jumping all over the place and in reverse..hah.  more tinkering

[PL1]

Windows does not see it at all at the Z axis.  I got it to work but its now jumping all over the place and in reverse..hah.  more tinkering

There are jumpers on the spinner board for reversing the axis. (Just above axis select)

You'll probably want to start by dialing the sensitivity way down in MAME's Analog controls menu (for Tempest, try a sensitivity of ~6) until you can figure out how to recompile MAME.


Scott

[equlizer]

K i got it fairly smooth (no jittering) but the movement is slow. Will recompiling change that?  If you could do it for me ill paypal you $5

[PL1]

K i got it fairly smooth (no jittering) but the movement is slow. Will recompiling change that?  If you could do it for me ill paypal you $5

Thanks for the offer, but two things keep me from taking you up on that.
1. No experience recompiling MAME for this or anything else.   
2. No PayPal account.   

Try dialing up the sensitivity to increase the speed -- I assume you are referring to the rotation speed of your "blaster" ship in Tempest rather than lag.

When you recompile MAME per that earlier link, IIRC it works like this:
Optical encoder reports 1 Z-Axis transition to Windows.
Windows translates that as 4 Z-Axis steps. (like a typical scroll wheel)
MAME divides the 4-step input by 4 to give you 1 Z-Axis step.
End result: 1 optical transition = 1 step, just like the X- and Y-Axis inputs are handled.

If the sensitivity works good now, when you recompile, increase the sensitivity by 4x. (Should be the same value you originally used when the spinner was on the X-Axis.)


Scott

[equlizer]

I guess some games just weren't meant to be    eg: kick, no matter what settings i use, its all over the place.  Your setting of 6 for tempest was perfect though!

[PL1]

If Tempest is good at sensitivity 6, Kick (kick.zip) should work at sensitivity ~3.




Scott