Running vertical games on a 25" horizontal monitor

[TJCOMBO]

Sounds like an easy question but I am having difficulty with this. 

What's the MAME to run vertical games true to the original on a 25" arcade CGA monitor in horizontal orientation?  Is this possible?  All I can get is triple buffer to work but that drops frames and lends to a not quite smooth picture (not sure if I am saying this correctly.)

[rCadeGaming]

I think I know what you're asking.  Running vertical games rotated on a horizontal CGA (15kHz) monitor is not possible, at least not in native resolution.

You can't display vertical games in native resolution on a 15kHz TV or monitor unless it's oriented vertically.  This is because the game is already using about all the resolution the display is capable of in progressive, around 320x240 pixels.  To rotate the screen, maintain the full resolution of the game, AND add black bars on the sides requires more resolution that isn't available in progressive.  To get this extra resolution, you'll have to run these rotated games upscaled in 640x480 interlaced (or something close to that, depending on the game).  It's not optimal, but it's a necessary solution to play both types of games in the same cabinet.  This is why I'm building two cabs, one horizontal and one vertical.

In the shmups community running a vertically orientated game on a horizontally oriented monitor with letterboxing is called Yoko mode or Yoko-tate. 

If you're trying to run games in their original arcade resolution on that monitor I would read through that thread:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,121491.0.html

We're talking about running on a TV there but it will all apply exactly the same.  A CGA monitor works just the same as a standard definition TV, they're both 15kHz CRT's.  Just ignore the parts about transcoding RGB to component, as you're plugging the RGB signal directly into the monitor.

[MTPPC]

I run vertical games at native resolutions on a 25" horizontal monitor. Many games like Pac-man do trim off a little at the top and bottom. I think I used a tool called AvRes to create custom cfg files for each ROM. you can also use MAME resolution tool. Both are found here: http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Other_Software. It's a little bit of a process because you have to create a file that lists all the available resolutions of your monitor and the program rips through the ROMs and pics the "best" resolution for your setup.

[rCadeGaming]

What kind of monitor?  If it could display 24kHz (EGA), then this is no problem.  If it's 15kHz (CGA), then this isn't possible.

15kHz is limited to around 240 lines from top to bottom (horizontal orientation).  A vertical 15kHz game, like Ms. Pac-Man or Donkey Kong, would be around 320 lines tall.  You'd have to cut off, or lose from squishing, about 1/3 of the lines.

[TJCOMBO]

What kind of monitor?  If it could display 24kHz (EGA), then this is no problem.  If it's 15kHz (CGA), then this isn't possible.

15kHz is limited to around 240 lines from top to bottom (horizontal orientation).  A vertical 15kHz game, like Ms. Pac-Man or Donkey Kong, would be around 320 lines tall.  You'd have to cut off, or lose from squishing, about 1/3 of the lines.

Makvision tri-sync.  Yes it can do EGA and VGA.  I don't mind if the top lines are cut-off, which will be the case.  I would just like to run the games at full speed without frames dropped.  When I use groovymame, it is not possible to vsync and run the vertical games like pacman and galaga at full speed.  Just wondering what work-arounds are available using another version of MAME, if possible.

[rCadeGaming]

Lol, you should have said that.  You can use an EGA resolution to do this.  Generally when someone says "a CGA monitor" they mean its limited to that.  If it can do CGA/EGA/VGA, that's called a tri-sync.

Take the original resolution of the game, take the larger dimension, and run it in a resolution of (the larger dimension * 4/3)x(the larger dimension).  For example if MAME lists the game as "320x240," the larger dimension would be 320, so run it in (320 * 4/3)x(320), which is "427x320".  Now, obviously that exact resolution may not be available, even if you try to create a custom res.  Just use the next largest one that works.  Don't use anything smaller.

Don't use waitvsync or triplebuffer, they cause lag.  Run it in directdraw with sync to refresh, and tweak your refresh rate in Powerstrip to that of the original game.  You can read that thread for more details on this, I'm not going to write it all out again here.

[ahofle]

What kind of monitor?  If it could display 24kHz (EGA), then this is no problem.  If it's 15kHz (CGA), then this isn't possible.

15kHz is limited to around 240 lines from top to bottom (horizontal orientation).  A vertical 15kHz game, like Ms. Pac-Man or Donkey Kong, would be around 320 lines tall.  You'd have to cut off, or lose from squishing, about 1/3 of the lines.

Sure it's possible -- you get a max of about 300 lines including blanking lines with a CGA monitor.  Anything pushing 288 lines or higher (Pacman, Galaga) will have a little bit cut off from the top and bottom unless you adjust the V-size (although this has a tradeoff the more you shrink as normal 224-240 line horizontal games will then have a slight border).  256 line games like Centipede/Donkey Kong can be adjusted to look great in my experience.  A friend of mine has a horizontal CGA monitor in his cab and does this.

If you use a tool like CRT_Emudriver + groovymame, it will create the custom modelines for you.

[rCadeGaming]

Those blanking lines aren't really there for the active resolution.  You can use them that way, but that doesn't mean they'll be visible on the screen, they'll be cut off.

I can't really get more than 240 lines visible out of custom modelines.  Of course I could squash things with the monitor's geometry controls and get a few more lines, but then it wouldn't be right for horizontal games, as you mentioned.

Yeah, you're right 256 line vertical games like Donkey Kong could be doable, that's kind of an exception.  It would be a stretch to get everything visible, as these old games, especially Donkey Kong, have text right to the edge of the screen.

As for 288 lines, I don't think that's going to happen without screwing up your geometry for horizontal games.  If you're setup for 240 lines horizontal games, you're looking at cutting off 48 lines for this.  I wouldn't really call that acceptable.  You're going be missing score/lives info at the top and/or the bottom of the level.  Furthermore most newer vertical games are around 320 lines tall; not doable.

[TJCOMBO]

I use CRT emudriver and groovemame.  I can't get the vertical games to play at 100%.  I don't mind the cutoff some cutoff.  I do mind 80% speed or skipped frames.  I think there is an issue with vsync.  I am not sure I understand the concept well enough to know if it's a hardware issue with the speed of my computer (I don't think it is) or if it's just it is mathematically impossible to not get 100% with the custom modelines.  I would really like to know what the cause is and if there is a work around.  I suppose I can do the EGA monitor workaround?

[rCadeGaming]

What we're talking about above just affects geometry and lines cut off, you should be able to run the games at 100% speed regardless of this.  Post your ini files, both MAME.ini for MAME's default settings, as well as a specific problem game's .ini for specific settings.  If you've got it set up correct for native res you should be running at the video output refresh rate.

What are the specs of your PC?  Is it just too slow?  Running native res with Direct Draw is a lot more demanding than just stretching things in Direct3D.