Most Reliable Micro Switches

[D_Harris]

I'm a leaf switch guy, but I did play Mario Bros. and Super Mario Bros. which of course used micro switches with their buttons and joysticks.

I'm not sure if only a specific brand micro switch can be used with those two games, but I'm going to sell a Ms. Pac-man game and since leaf switch joysticks are scarce can I get recommendations on what the most reliable micro switch joystick/buttons are?

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[rCadeGaming]

Saying which joysticks are more reliable gets into the territory of "best joystick" which has been argued to death, so I won't mention anything here, just search for it.

As for reliable microswitches, I think you can get completely 100% reliable microswitches that will fit almost any stick.  For Japanese sticks I think Omron microswitches are excellent, and Cherry microswitches for Americans.  Many sticks will come stock with one of these, and you can mix and mod pretty easily.

[PL1]

Any reason you don't want to use a $27 "Ms. Pac-Man Micro Switch Red Ball Handle Joystick with Powder Coated Mounting Plate"?



Or if it's a reunion cab, there's this one for $22.




Scott

[paigeoliver]

That is the only acceptable stick for Pac-Man other than the original. Bob Roberts even sells a variant designed for wooden control panels. You are relatively unlikely to ever wear out a microswitch in a home use environment. In 12 years of game collecting I have never had to replace a microswitch that wasn't faulty when I got the machine in the first place.

Any reason you don't want to use a $27 "Ms. Pac-Man Micro Switch Red Ball Handle Joystick with Powder Coated Mounting Plate"?



Or if it's a reunion cab, there's this one for $22.




Scott

[D_Harris]

Saying which joysticks are more reliable gets into the territory of "best joystick" which has been argued to death, so I won't mention anything here, just search for it.

Actually most "reliable" and "best" are two different things. When I say reliable I'm referring to switches that have the longest life before replacement. There are different qualities that go into a joystick or button switches that determines whether or not they are "best" for playing any particular game.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[D_Harris]

Any reason you don't want to use a $27 "Ms. Pac-Man Micro Switch Red Ball Handle Joystick with Powder Coated Mounting Plate"?

Scott

This game is "Pink" themed. (Pink T-molding, pink buttons, and pink joystick). The joysticks you referred to do not come with a pink ball top.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[Hoopz]

My opinion is that original Nintendo joys are the most reliable.  The only time I have heard of the joystick itself failing was in a small fire.  But it wasn't broken. 

[PL1]

Versa-ball 2 shafts may fit the reunion sticks and allow your choice of 6mm threaded balltops.

No confirmation from RandyT in this thread, but it looks like the same size.


Scott

[paigeoliver]

Eh, I always thought nintendo sticks were overengineered, undersized and had a terrible feel to them.

My opinion is that original Nintendo joys are the most reliable.  The only time I have heard of the joystick itself failing was in a small fire.  But it wasn't broken.

[D_Harris]

Over engineered? That's good enough for me. OMRON is the original company that made the switches, so I'll stick with them.

http://www.mikesarcade.com/cgi-bin/s...?sku=TKG-23-10
http://www.mikesarcade.com/cgi-bin/s...?sku=TKG-23-13
http://www.mikesarcade.com/cgi-bin/s...ku=TKG-23-13-B

As for feel. I am use to them when I play Mario Bros.  Any other joystick/switch wouldn't feel right on that game. 

So now, as for the Ms. Pac-man game, I have to figure if I should machine down one of the 4" pink ball tops I have so that they fit an original Pac-man joystick assembly or go with something like this: http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/en/imported-joysticks/20-pink-top.html

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[paigeoliver]

If you really want pink then I would go with a pink Wico 4-way over any of the import sticks.

[D_Harris]

Why is that?

And can you direct me to where these can be found?

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[paigeoliver]

Import 4-way sticks tend to have clover shaped restrictors instead of the diamond shaped ones that Pac-Man expects and most have very little resistance. You can't get a whole lot further from the feel of a real stick than these.

Bob Roberts has "Plum" wico handles that look fairly pink in person. You would have to source a 4-way wico base elsewhere. Those are probably the same 4" pink balltops you already have.

Really though the insistence on a pink joystick for Ms. Pac-Man is seriously hampering the gameplay for a tiny cosmetic change, as really, NOTHING plays Pac-Man right except the original midway stick and the reunion stick.

Why is that?

And can you direct me to where these can be found?

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[Unstupid]

If you are going 4 way then I like the Sanwa JLW joystick.....  Only thing is they are pretty tight, but you can make it looser by changing out the spring to whatever suits you.   Also you can switch out the ball top to whatever color you like.... Solid pink, translucent pink with bubbles, 35mm diameter, 40mm, 45mm.... Etc..etc...

[mgb]

If you are going 4 way then I like the Sanwa JLW joystick.....  Only thing is they are pretty tight, but you can make it looser by changing out the spring to whatever suits you.   Also you can switch out the ball top to whatever color you like.... Solid pink, translucent pink with bubbles, 35mm diameter, 40mm, 45mm.... Etc..etc...

I agree. I like the JLW in 4way. It doesn't have the clover restrict or like seimitsu and zippy.
However I don't care for the stock spring or switches. I like them with the extra stiff spring and soft switches from either paradise or ggg.

[PL1]

Any reason you don't want to use a $27 "Ms. Pac-Man Micro Switch Red Ball Handle Joystick with Powder Coated Mounting Plate"?

Scott

This game is "Pink" themed. (Pink T-molding, pink buttons, and pink joystick). The joysticks you referred to do not come with a pink ball top.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Bryan at Paradise may soon have a replacement shaft to do what you want.

I was also thinking about a replacement ms pac so you could put a pink or lit pink ball on there

Scott

[D_Harris]

It looks as though I'll have to give in and use an original or reunion. For a player like me this is the only way to go, but since I'm selling this particular game I wasn't sure how picky the average person would be over feel.

So two questions.

A) Anyone know the size differences between an original and a reunion stick? (Directions to a blow-up diagram with part dimensions would be appreciated).

B) Where is the best(cheapest) place to get a reunion joystick? 

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Import 4-way sticks tend to have clover shaped restrictors instead of the diamond shaped ones that Pac-Man expects and most have very little resistance. You can't get a whole lot further from the feel of a real stick than these.

Bob Roberts has "Plum" wico handles that look fairly pink in person. You would have to source a 4-way wico base elsewhere. Those are probably the same 4" pink balltops you already have.

Really though the insistence on a pink joystick for Ms. Pac-Man is seriously hampering the gameplay for a tiny cosmetic change, as really, NOTHING plays Pac-Man right except the original midway stick and the reunion stick.

Why is that?

And can you direct me to where these can be found?

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[paigeoliver]

Bob Roberts always has the reunion sticks at a good price, he also sells the adaptor plates used to install them on original machines using the original mounting holes.

The base and depth of the reunion stick is the same size/depth as a Happ Super (basically it is the NORMAL modern joystick size). The original ones have a base several inches wider and a little bit deeper.

Both of them are the same size as far as how tall and large the stick is.

http://www.therealbobroberts.net/

[paigeoliver]

Reunion stick diagram here.

http://na.suzohapp.com/joysticks/5060841125r_exploded.htm

Here it is installed on the mounting plate used to install on original Ms Pac machines. The original sticks are that same size as the reunion sticks with the mounting plate installed.

[PL1]

A) Anyone know the size differences between an original and a reunion stick? (Directions to a blow-up diagram with part dimensions would be appreciated).

Original measurements.

Reunion measurements.

B) Where is the best(cheapest) place to get a reunion joystick? 

If Suzo/Happ sells it and the "Big Three" (Ultimarc, GGG, and Paradise) don't stock it, your best bet to avoid Happ's high shipping charges is Divemaster127's site, ArcadeEmulator.net.  He's also an authorized reseller of Ultimarc products.

He has the reunion stick here.

EDIT 2: Twisted Quarter looks like they have the best deal on them at the moment -- $12.99!  Great tip, Unstupid. Per Bryan's post below, this one turns out to be a knockoff.


Scott

[Unstupid]

You can check out twistedquarter.com too.

[armi0024]

Sorry but this thread really upset me, in part because it really hilites one of the biggest problems with whats going on right now.

D_Harris, you asked me in COSP chat whether Cherry switches can be used to replace switches on Nintendo sticks, and I am not sure, the metal leafs on Nintendo joys are bent and may or may not fit the Cherry's

If you want to know the "most reliable" switch Cherry and Omron switches stand out and are known for there robust builds.
IL uses Cherry, Sanwa Uses Omron

So JLW joysticks, come with Omron switches, which are going to be most similar to the original Nintendo switches.

E-switch (standard at TQ) and Zippy (GGG and US) are good switches, and are generally more than adequate for most applications, but they are not as robust as Omron or Cherry.  However, they are half the price.

Ok, that's the "informational" part of the post. Now the part that upsets me:
1) Because E-switch micros look like Cherry's some companies have started selling an "E-switch Cherry Microswitch" This is kind of like selling a Honda Porsche Accord, but because most people do not know the difference this goes on.  What's worse is that these companies actually show Cherry microswitches when they advertise, but ship E-switch. 

2) Many of the retailers take Chinese sticks, put a fancy label on them and then sell them as something that makes the whole market confusing. 
The reunion stick for Ms Pac is very similar to the Happ Super Joystick, but they don't include the ability to switch between 4 and 8 way, they just have on restrictor.

If you look at the micros in profile here they are whitish.  I pulled an older Namco reunion cabinet I have here apart and I think the joyticks are from before the IL/Happ split, but the reunion stick I have has Cherries on it.  I would assume, but I can not prove this, that since Happ dropped Cherry and IL after the split, all newer reunion sticks have E-switch micros.
Also if you look at the exploded view of the Happ Super, it matches exactly what is in my reunion cabinet, minus the shaft.

However, if you look at TQ's stick:

The Micros on the bottom are blue and black, and the restrictor is black, not white.  These are knock off Happ Super joysticks.  The micros are "Ye" brand


Notice that TQ does not label them as "Happ" they say "Namco" replacement.  These are not the same stick.

I am all for people being creative on repackaging and trying to make better more affordable products, but with all the Chinese knock offs things have become very confusing.  GGG, us, Jammaparts, Holland Computers, Dirt Cheap, and about 6 more companies sell the EXACT same joystick, that GGG calls the Spitfire and there are several other names.

What needs to happen is there should be a thread or site that allows for cross referencing of parts.  With all the quick switches and rebranding, it is becoming a little ridiculous, not to mention confusing.

[RandyT]

I am all for people being creative on repackaging and trying to make better more affordable products, but with all the Chinese knock offs things have become very confusing.  GGG, us, Jammaparts, Holland Computers, Dirt Cheap, and about 6 more companies sell the EXACT same joystick, that GGG calls the Spitfire and there are several other names.

You probably shouldn't make these assumptions.  The one instance you are using, specifically our Spitfire stick, has for the last 6 months been shipping with switches which are different than others selling similar sticks.  We have them specifically built that way to improve the function of the stick.  There are a number of our products to which we make these small, but important changes.  And unlike many other vendors, we build a number of the products to suit, based on the options selected, and in doing so check and tweak performance as necessary.  This is what makes them our products and what differentiates them from the others.

But for vendors who's business revolves mainly around transferring an item from a Chinese box to an American one, it's hard to disagree with your assessment.

RandyT

[armi0024]

11/17/2012... the day Randy and I agree on something... I will take the comment about "mainly around transferring an item from a Chinese box to an American one" as one not directed at us

At the risk of making everyone call for a round of group hugs, I will concede that Randy does make modifications to products he picks up from overseas.  We may disagree over the significance, but there are mods done.  There are some places that simply throw every cheap piece of crap into there store, but there are some that order, test, tweak, and then release.

Obviously I don't have a problem with people reselling Chinese stuff, and obviously I don't mind the mods as both of these things are something we do extensively.  I do have a real problem with people intentionally trying to mislead customers into thinking they are getting something they are not.

[D_Harris]

11/17/2012... the day Randy and I agree on something...

Yeah. I better go to church tomorrow so I can find out whether hell froze over.

You're right. Things can be confusing. Well, I know that Omron is the original manufacturer of the switches used in the Nintendo games I played back in the 80s. So I'll stick with those for my Mario Bros. and Vs. Super Mario Bros. Then go with Cherry for everything else, that is, games I'll sell. (All the rest of my games will are "leaf switch only". 

Thanks everyone.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.