Main Restorations Software Audio/Jukebox/MP3 Everything Else Buy/Sell/Trade
Project Announcements Monitor/Video GroovyMAME Merit/JVL Touchscreen Meet Up Retail Vendors
Driving & Racing Woodworking Software Support Forums Consoles Project Arcade Reviews
Automated Projects Artwork Frontend Support Forums Pinball Forum Discussion Old Boards
Raspberry Pi & Dev Board controls.dat Linux Miscellaneous Arcade Wiki Discussion Old Archives
Lightguns Arcade1Up Try the site in https mode Site News

Unread posts | New Replies | Recent posts | Rules | Chatroom | Wiki | File Repository | RSS | Submit news

  

Author Topic: I want a more responsive joystick  (Read 6104 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

MagicMan

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 97
  • Last login:April 18, 2020, 12:17:05 pm
I want a more responsive joystick
« on: November 05, 2012, 11:19:06 am »
I'm wondering if I have any options for a better joystick, or maybe the joystick isn't my issue afterall?  :lol

Here is what I am currently running on my MAME machine with USB controller:
http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/en/il-eurostick-joystick/107-il-eurostick-joystick.html

For example, when I am playing Street Fighter and doing moves such as Ryu's Hadouken it will not always register and I'll have to perform the motion a couple times or more to get it to happen.

Do I have any better 8 way, or more, joystick options?

brad808

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 818
  • Last login:May 22, 2023, 08:18:15 pm
Re: I want a more responsive joystick
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2012, 11:34:25 am »
Sure it's the joysticks fault ;D

Some good options for street fighter would be happ super, or sanwa jlf.

My personal preference is the sanwa jlf with an octagonal restrictor. You can get others though, square, round. People that play different style characters tend to prefer different restrictor plates to best suit the style.

Just to rule it out, just double check all your inputs are actually registering properly in one of the game i/o check service menus.

Sent from my Desire HD
« Last Edit: November 05, 2012, 11:36:13 am by brad808 »

MagicMan

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 97
  • Last login:April 18, 2020, 12:17:05 pm
Re: I want a more responsive joystick
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2012, 12:13:55 pm »
Sure it's the joysticks fault ;D

Some good options for street fighter would be happ super, or sanwa jlf.

My personal preference is the sanwa jlf with an octagonal restrictor. You can get others though, square, round. People that play different style characters tend to prefer different restrictor plates to best suit the style.

Just to rule it out, just double check all your inputs are actually registering properly in one of the game i/o check service menus.

Sent from my Desire HD
From what I see, that joystick does not have exposed micro switches & has a circuit board with one connector. That won't work with my current controller. My controller is wired directly to each terminal on every micro switch.

brad808

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 818
  • Last login:May 22, 2023, 08:18:15 pm
Re: I want a more responsive joystick
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2012, 12:29:41 pm »
What controller are you using? Does it not use common ground? The jlf connector is simply 5 wires, 1 ground and 4 directions, there is no funny business going on. The pcb is just a "cleaner" way of connecting the 4 microswitches.

Edit: i should also mention that jlf isn't a drop in as far as mounts go. Happ super is a drop in but has a similar feel to the competition (competition feels clunkier to me though). Happ super are easy for quarter circle characters like ryu if you "ride the rail" of the joystick because it's a circle.

Sent from my Desire HD
« Last Edit: November 05, 2012, 12:44:54 pm by brad808 »

MagicMan

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 97
  • Last login:April 18, 2020, 12:17:05 pm
Re: I want a more responsive joystick
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2012, 12:38:26 pm »
What controller are you using? Does it not use common ground? The jlf connector is simply 5 wires, 1 ground and 4 directions, there is no funny business going on. The pcb is just a "cleaner" way of connecting the 4 microswitches.

Sent from my Desire HD

The XIN MO controller
http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/en/mame-arcade-parts/24-arcade-controller-to-usb.html

Vigo

  • the Scourage of Carpathia
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+24)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6417
  • Last login:June 25, 2025, 03:09:16 pm
Re: I want a more responsive joystick
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2012, 12:47:17 pm »
I believe it should work with that encoder. With the JLF, it comes with a 5 pin cable. You need to get some male QD terminal ends and crimp one on each of the 5 wires. Attach the ground one end to the ground wire, and the other 4 to the up down left right wires.

If it is easier for you, you can swap in regular microswitches on the jlf. I believe that the Omron V series switches are recommended by people who do that mod.

BadMouth

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9272
  • Last login:July 31, 2025, 06:57:41 am
  • ...
Re: I want a more responsive joystick
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2012, 12:51:56 pm »
If it is easier for you, you can swap in regular microswitches on the jlf. I believe that the Omron V series switches are recommended by people who do that mod.

Not sure about the Omron switches, but the zippy's are slightly narrower.  With the octagon and round restrictors, it makes the actuator catch on the edge of the restrictor and doesn't feel good.

The JLF usually comes with a wiring harness.  Don't be afraid to cut wires.  :P
(or you can just crimp male spade connectors on the end of the wiring harness and plug those into your existing connectors)

brad808

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 818
  • Last login:May 22, 2023, 08:18:15 pm
Re: I want a more responsive joystick
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2012, 12:57:15 pm »
Yea that encoder uses a "daisy chain" on the ground so it's all technically the same ground, in other words it'll work. As long as you are willing to adapt your control panel to mount the jlf properly.

Sent from my Desire HD


Vigo

  • the Scourage of Carpathia
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+24)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6417
  • Last login:June 25, 2025, 03:09:16 pm
Re: I want a more responsive joystick
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2012, 01:20:16 pm »
If it is easier for you, you can swap in regular microswitches on the jlf. I believe that the Omron V series switches are recommended by people who do that mod.

Not sure about the Omron switches, but the zippy's are slightly narrower.  With the octagon and round restrictors, it makes the actuator catch on the edge of the restrictor and doesn't feel good.

I believe the Omron is the switch that already comes in the JLF and that is why it is recommended, it fits in there right out of the box.

Mental

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 93
  • Last login:May 18, 2013, 09:46:08 am
    • Complete cocktail arcade system
Re: I want a more responsive joystick
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2012, 01:27:05 pm »
I believe it should work with that encoder. With the JLF, it comes with a 5 pin cable. You need to get some male QD terminal ends and crimp one on each of the 5 wires. Attach the ground one end to the ground wire, and the other 4 to the up down left right wires.

If it is easier for you, you can swap in regular microswitches on the jlf. I believe that the Omron V series switches are recommended by people who do that mod.

^ This ^

 You just crimp some male terminals onto the JLF cable. Makes it plug and play with what you already have.
Complete cocktail arcade system: arcadecabinets.ca

MagicMan

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 97
  • Last login:April 18, 2020, 12:17:05 pm
Re: I want a more responsive joystick
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2012, 01:36:23 pm »
I believe it should work with that encoder. With the JLF, it comes with a 5 pin cable. You need to get some male QD terminal ends and crimp one on each of the 5 wires. Attach the ground one end to the ground wire, and the other 4 to the up down left right wires.

If it is easier for you, you can swap in regular microswitches on the jlf. I believe that the Omron V series switches are recommended by people who do that mod.

^ This ^

 You just crimp some male terminals onto the JLF cable. Makes it plug and play with what you already have.

Anyone know which direction each color wire on the Sanwa is for?

brad808

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 818
  • Last login:May 22, 2023, 08:18:15 pm
Re: Re: I want a more responsive joystick
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2012, 01:44:27 pm »
I believe it should work with that encoder. With the JLF, it comes with a 5 pin cable. You need to get some male QD terminal ends and crimp one on each of the 5 wires. Attach the ground one end to the ground wire, and the other 4 to the up down left right wires.

If it is easier for you, you can swap in regular microswitches on the jlf. I believe that the Omron V series switches are recommended by people who do that mod.

^ This ^

 You just crimp some male terminals onto the JLF cable. Makes it plug and play with what you already have.

Anyone know which direction each color wire on the Sanwa is for?


Depends which way you mount the stick :P

Sent from my Desire HD


mgb

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3500
  • Last login:July 28, 2025, 09:45:32 pm
  • North East, US
I want a more responsive joystick
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2012, 02:22:44 pm »
Just pin out the wires using a multi meter ( Home Depot had cheap ones if you don't have one)
Just meter between each conductor and ground to figure which is which

PL1

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9674
  • Last login:Today at 05:13:02 am
  • Designated spam hunter
Re: I want a more responsive joystick
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2012, 02:42:56 pm »
Just pin out the wires using a multi meter ( Home Depot had cheap ones if you don't have one)
Just meter between each conductor and ground to figure which is which

Harbor Freight has an el cheapo meter for $5.  (~$3 if you catch them on sale)


Scott

fallacy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 992
  • Last login:March 11, 2025, 01:20:39 am
Re: I want a more responsive joystick
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2012, 03:34:48 pm »
I agree the Happ Competition is complete garage. It is literally the worst joystick\controller I have ever used in my entire life. The Atari 5200 joystick would be a better option.  It boggles my mind on why so many people think this is a good controller and will defend it and recommend it. Do these people also think McDonalds makes the best hamburgers? The controller is almost unplayable; forget about trying to pull off any moves in a fighting game. Have you ever tried playing a 4 way game with one of these forget about it.
Happ Perfect 360 is what you are looking for
http://na.suzohapp.com/joysticks/50608300.htm
I don’t have really any experience with the other joysticks so I don’t know if there is a cheaper option that will work as good as the Perfect 360.

BadMouth

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9272
  • Last login:July 31, 2025, 06:57:41 am
  • ...
Re: I want a more responsive joystick
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2012, 03:37:10 pm »
 :dunno



EDIT: BEWARE OF VENDORS USING WIRING HARNESSES THAT DON'T MATCH THE ORIGINAL JLF ONES.  USE THE POSITION OF THE WIRE IN THE HARNESS IF YOUR COLORS AREN'T IN THE SAME ORDER AS PICTURED ABOVE.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2013, 04:11:17 pm by BadMouth »

Vigo

  • the Scourage of Carpathia
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+24)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6417
  • Last login:June 25, 2025, 03:09:16 pm
Re: I want a more responsive joystick
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2012, 03:53:12 pm »
Reminds me of the time I sold an encoder and the guy came back to me saying it was broken because the inputs for the joystick were inverted. Up was down, down was up. Left was right, right was left.

I had to find a nice way to tell him to rotate his joystick 180 degrees and try again.  :lol

MagicMan

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 97
  • Last login:April 18, 2020, 12:17:05 pm
Re: I want a more responsive joystick
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2012, 04:16:08 pm »
I'm not a tard I was just asking b/c I have not used that stick before.  :lol

rCadeGaming

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1256
  • Last login:April 13, 2025, 12:14:40 pm
  • Just call me Rob!
Re: I want a more responsive joystick
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2012, 11:13:08 am »
I think a stock JLF with slightly increased spring tension is the best for fighters hands down.  I play a lot of street fighter and other fighters, and most of the pros agree on the JLF.

It's not as great however for shmups and other things though.  This is a mod I created to reduce throw engage to fix that, if you're interested:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=41451

It also mentions how to just increase the spring tension a little.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2012, 11:20:14 am by rCadeGaming »

MagicMan

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 97
  • Last login:April 18, 2020, 12:17:05 pm
Re: I want a more responsive joystick
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2012, 11:40:06 am »
I think a stock JLF with slightly increased spring tension is the best for fighters hands down.  I play a lot of street fighter and other fighters, and most of the pros agree on the JLF.

It's not as great however for shmups and other things though.  This is a mod I created to reduce throw engage to fix that, if you're interested:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=41451

It also mentions how to just increase the spring tension a little.
Thanks. I ordered a couple JLFs & octagonal restrictor plates today. I'll see how they perform in other games before I do anything. First, I need a new MAME PC. Ugh.

rCadeGaming

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1256
  • Last login:April 13, 2025, 12:14:40 pm
  • Just call me Rob!
Re: I want a more responsive joystick
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2012, 11:46:54 am »
I prefer the square restrictor.  It makes blocking feeling very solid.  The octagonal makes the diagonal engage areas feels too small.

IMO:
-Stock JLF with increased spring tension is best for fighters, not so hot for shmups and other things. 
-JLF with my mod is best for shmups and most other genres; and it's still not bad for fighters so it's a great all around stick.
-I think my modded JLF is fine for 4-way games, but if you're really picky about this you might with a dedicated stick with a real 4-way restrictor, like an LS-32.

emphatic

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2017
  • Last login:Today at 07:30:53 am
  • -"Suck it, Donny!" -"No, YOU suck it.... more".
    • Emphatic's Video Game Collection
Re: I want a more responsive joystick
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2012, 03:47:37 pm »
Having both gates available to try is great when first trying a new kind of stick, so buying one is a no-brainer, really.

BadMouth

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9272
  • Last login:July 31, 2025, 06:57:41 am
  • ...
Re: I want a more responsive joystick
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2012, 04:36:20 pm »
I liked the octagon for a while.  It's kinda like training wheels.
When you think you're moving it to the right position, it guides you in.
There's no doubt whether you are hitting left, down, or the diagonal.
When make a circular motion, you feel a bump at each of the 8 directions.
I also did better at 4 way games and qbert with it.

Eventually I moved on to the circular restrictor.
I like the smooth motion of it as compared to the bumpy ride of the other restrictors.

I hated my JLFs before I replaced the spring with a stiffer one.   
I have seimitsu LS-56 springs in them now, but next time I have a need for something at paradisearcadeshop.com, I'm going to get a selection of their springs to check out.
Also started out with bat tops, but they never felt right because they are much smaller than the happs I was used to.  Ended up with hand candy ball tops from groovygamegear and couldn't be happier.

MagicMan

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 97
  • Last login:April 18, 2020, 12:17:05 pm
Re: I want a more responsive joystick
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2012, 04:52:35 pm »
I liked the octagon for a while.  It's kinda like training wheels.
When you think you're moving it to the right position, it guides you in.
There's no doubt whether you are hitting left, down, or the diagonal.
When make a circular motion, you feel a bump at each of the 8 directions.
I also did better at 4 way games and qbert with it.

Eventually I moved on to the circular restrictor.
I like the smooth motion of it as compared to the bumpy ride of the other restrictors.

I hated my JLFs before I replaced the spring with a stiffer one.   
I have seimitsu LS-56 springs in them now, but next time I have a need for something at paradisearcadeshop.com, I'm going to get a selection of their springs to check out.
Also started out with bat tops, but they never felt right because they are much smaller than the happs I was used to.  Ended up with hand candy ball tops from groovygamegear and couldn't be happier.
What plate is in the JLF from the factory?

rCadeGaming

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1256
  • Last login:April 13, 2025, 12:14:40 pm
  • Just call me Rob!
Re: I want a more responsive joystick
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2012, 04:59:22 pm »
Square, and I think the reason is that it's what the people who designed the stick recommend.  It gives an equal engage area to all the directions.

As emphatic says though, no harm in trying them, they're pretty cheap.  Just be careful when swapping them out, it's easy to break the two little tabs that hold the colored restrictor part in the larger clear assembly.

BadMouth

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9272
  • Last login:July 31, 2025, 06:57:41 am
  • ...
Re: I want a more responsive joystick
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2012, 06:44:40 pm »
It's square so the center section can be rotated to make it a 4-way stick.  (squeeze in on the two tabs that stick up from the circular inset and turn)
It's not as convenient as the JLW and I've never bothered to test it much in 4-way mode, but it's there.  Presumeably as a selling point.

mgb

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3500
  • Last login:July 28, 2025, 09:45:32 pm
  • North East, US
I want a more responsive joystick
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2012, 07:44:36 pm »
I've used the JLF as a 4-way on a previous build and found it to be not that great for 4 way. It sometimes seemed to hit diagonals.


MagicMan

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 97
  • Last login:April 18, 2020, 12:17:05 pm
Re: I want a more responsive joystick
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2012, 08:34:47 pm »
Installed the JLF yesterday. I only played for a couple minutes with the octagonal & with the circle in there.

At first I didn't think the octagonal was going to work for games like SF, but then I started to do ok with it. I may leave the octagonal in there. I found it hard to do diagnoal jumps & such with the circle in there.

rCadeGaming

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1256
  • Last login:April 13, 2025, 12:14:40 pm
  • Just call me Rob!
Re: I want a more responsive joystick
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2012, 11:24:20 pm »
Yeah I prefer the stock square restrictor because of things like that, especially diagonal blocking.

dendawg

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 33
  • Last login:April 26, 2025, 01:22:58 am
  • I want my own arcade controls!
Re: I want a more responsive joystick
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2012, 05:40:09 am »
I'm not a tard I was just asking b/c I have not used that stick before.  :lol

That's what she said.  :laugh2: