Pots or optical encoder for steering wheel?

[seaner]

Hiyo,
I'm thinking of modularizing my control panel which is already too crowded.  It has 4 players, 4-8 buttons each, 2 trackballs, a spinner, assorted other buttons and a 4-way stick.  Needless to say, I'm out of space to add new toys.  (www.beerbot.ca/arcade).
So in my quest to modularize everything using a 96-pin high speed connector or similar, I'm stuck thinking about what new panels to build.
Number one on the obvious list is a steering wheel panel.
I'm sort of up in the air over what's the best way to do so... using a potentiometer and limiting the turning radius to <360 degrees, or using an optical encoder and allowing it to spin freely.
Can anyone suggest any reason I'd want a free-spinning wheel over one with restricted range of motion (and probably some resistance - no pun intended) ??

I also plan to build a yoke that could be used for star-wars or spy-hunter or similar, but I'd like a purely race-car type steering wheel setup as well.

I guess I could test out playability by sticking a 100K pot on the joystick port and comparing it with the response from my spinner.  I just can't remember which racing games allowed you to spin the wheel feely like a madman, and if there was any point to it

Cheers,
Sean

[menace]

championship sprint and ivan stewart's ironman come to mind--imho you can'y play championship sprint properly without spinning the hell out of the wheel.

[u_rebelscum]

I addition, PolePosition and almost any other top-view (if whole is visible) racing game used 360 degree wheels.

Here's a list, as of 0.62, that I made a while ago comparing 270 vs 360 wheel games: http://urebelscum.speedhost.com/drivingInputs.html

Notice at least one in the list, Mille Miglia 2: Great 1000 Miles Rally, has a dip switch to flip between 270, 360, or 8-way joystick control.  I really should update the data at some point...

[seaner]

Wow, that's exactly the sort of list I was after.. now I guess I just go through the games and determine which I would ever play
When you list games as "paddle", do you mean 1-axis on an analog stick more or less?
Presumably if I build a star-wars-type yoke, that'll take care of any of the 270-games.  A seperate 360-wheel sounds in order.  
(unless I can cleverly switch between the two.. hmm.. like a gear shifter that attaches a pot or an optical wheel to the shaft. interesting.)

[u_rebelscum]

Wow, that's exactly the sort of list I was after.. now I guess I just go through the games and determine which I would ever play
When you list games as "paddle", do you mean 1-axis on an analog stick more or less?

Yes.  Paddle and AD stick are treated the same in mame; they are treated like analog joysticks (POTs).

Presumably if I build a star-wars-type yoke, that'll take care of any of the 270-games.  A seperate 360-wheel sounds in order.  
(unless I can cleverly switch between the two.. hmm.. like a gear shifter that attaches a pot or an optical wheel to the shaft. interesting.)

Search this forum for discussions on "gear shifting" between the two.

[paigeoliver]

Some of the Data on that list is incorrect.

I used to own an SCI. It definitely had a 360 degree force feedback (shaker) wheel, with an encoder wheel. It is not a 270 degree game.

Burnin Rubber (Aka Bump in Jump) is a joy 8-way game that is incorrectly listed as analog, just like all the other Deco cassete games are.

Finally, I am almost certain Roadblasters is a 270 degree wheel game. After all,the darn thing is only a cut down wheel, and it has fire buttons on it. Fire buttons can't go on a 360 degree wheel (think about it, imagine trying to mount a button on a spinner, but not in the center)..

[Tiger-Heli]

Finally, I am almost certain Roadblasters is a 270 degree wheel game. After all,the darn thing is only a cut down wheel, and it has fire buttons on it. Fire buttons can't go on a 360 degree wheel (think about it, imagine trying to mount a button on a spinner, but not in the center)..

Haven't looked at rebel's list in a while, but Roadblasters was 270 degree OPTICAL, which may be what's causing the confusion.

[Tailgunner]

Roadblasters is a wierd hybrid wheel. It shares quite a few parts with the Star Wars Yoke, while the encoder wheel and optical board are similar the the Pole Position setup. It has the same limit bumpers that the yoke uses, so I don't think it has 270 degrees of motion. More like 180 degrees.

I can't speak for the upright cab version, I know it uses different grips then the sitdown wheel and there may be other differences as well.

[u_rebelscum]

Some of the Data on that list is incorrect.

Okay.  I just pulled it from the mame drivers; any errors are also in mame.  I do state "Simple table listing ... mame's method of emulating the steering input" at the top of the page.  The list is for what is needed to have the best control in mame; not what the original game used.  (I'll change the page to make that more clear.)

BTW, controls.dat will be way more accurate and detailed when it fills up than my table.

I used to own an SCI. It definitely had a 360 degree force feedback (shaker) wheel, with an encoder wheel. It is not a 270 degree game.

Burnin Rubber (Aka Bump in Jump) is a joy 8-way game that is incorrectly listed as analog, just like all the other Deco cassete games are.

I'll take your word on these.  Maybe you can submit fixes to mame?

Finally, I am almost certain Roadblasters is a 270 degree wheel game. After all,the darn thing is only a cut down wheel, and it has fire buttons on it. Fire buttons can't go on a 360 degree wheel (think about it, imagine trying to mount a button on a spinner, but not in the center)..

Roadblasters is a wierd hybrid wheel. It shares quite a few parts with the Star Wars Yoke, while the encoder wheel and optical board are similar the the Pole Position setup. It has the same limit bumpers that the yoke uses, so I don't think it has 270 degrees of motion. More like 180 degrees.

I can't speak for the upright cab version, I know it uses different grips then the sitdown wheel and there may be other differences as well.

Yup, RoadBlasters is an optical steering wheel but with limited turn.  Mame simulates POT, limited turn wheels (aka true 270 degree wheel) as "paddle" or "AD stick".  Mame simulates optical, unlimited turn wheels (aka true 360 degree wheels) as "dial" or "trackball".  RoadBlasters meets half of each, and is simulated as a dial; since "dial" is usually a 360 wheel, it's in that column.  

If you want to play it in mame, you have to use a dial/spinner/360 wheel for best control.  If you use a PC 270 wheel, your control will be as bad as with a 8-way stick or keyboard.  (I guess best control would be a 360 wheel with limited control added, and mame's analog sensitivity set correctly.)

[b3atmania]

If 270 degree wheels are simulated using analog input, it seems to me we need an option to map dial input to analog input. Would not be that hard to program I reckon. You would need some kind of calibration tool to map center, max. left and right range to analog values.

That way, you can use a 360 degree wheel to play both limited turn and free spin wheel games.

[u_rebelscum]

If 270 degree wheels are simulated using analog input, it seems to me we need an option to map dial input to analog input. Would not be that hard to program I reckon. You would need some kind of calibration tool to map center, max. left and right range to analog values.

That way, you can use a 360 degree wheel to play both limited turn and free spin wheel games.

  You can play any analog input with the mouse or mouse type devices.  (Except you can't remap the mouse in official mame.)

So mame already does what you say, and no need for calibration.  But playing a 270 game with a 360 wheel isn't the same as with a 270 wheel.