Main Restorations Software Audio/Jukebox/MP3 Everything Else Buy/Sell/Trade
Project Announcements Monitor/Video GroovyMAME Merit/JVL Touchscreen Meet Up Retail Vendors
Driving & Racing Woodworking Software Support Forums Consoles Project Arcade Reviews
Automated Projects Artwork Frontend Support Forums Pinball Forum Discussion Old Boards
Raspberry Pi & Dev Board controls.dat Linux Miscellaneous Arcade Wiki Discussion Old Archives
Lightguns Arcade1Up --- Bug Reports --- Site News

Unread posts | New Replies | Recent posts | Rules | Chatroom | Wiki | File Repository | RSS | Submit news

  

Author Topic: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks  (Read 6848 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

griffindodd

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1433
  • Last login:October 02, 2014, 12:04:03 pm
  • Old Account, now posting as 'Maximus'
    • Arcade Icons
$2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« on: September 08, 2012, 01:38:11 am »
So I was bored, and when I'm bored I usually start trying to burn the house down.

But tonight I managed to hack together something pretty fun, an ultra-cheap optical rotary unit to fit on the end of my Paradise Arcade LED sticks. The title of this post assumes you can pick up a cheap laser mouse for $2 or less, you can do this conversion in about 30 mins without any special tools. I did it because I want to play Ikari Warriors when I finally finish my cab and wanted a way to use my existing sticks rather than having to have dedicated ones just for that game.

Excuse the crappy camera work, but like I said I was bored and feeling 'experimenty'

I'd love to see what some of you guys can do with this idea and how well it would perform if crafted by more expert hands than mine.

Anyway here's the video
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 01:55:52 am by griffindodd »

Le Chuck

  • Saint, make a poll!
  • Wiki Contributor
  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5509
  • Last login:June 02, 2019, 07:37:23 pm
  • <insert personal text here>
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2012, 02:18:57 am »
You could make a stabilizing adapter similar to the Mark Oates 12 position rotary mod and then hook your mouse hack to that.  http://www.markoates.com/rotary/techsupport.htm

It would give you some nice spinner action and fix that encoder rotation issue.  I've always thought Mark's design could be retrofitted to just about any joy out there.  This takes it in a whole new direction.  Well done!  :applaud: :applaud:

ark_ader

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5645
  • Last login:March 02, 2019, 07:35:34 pm
  • I glow in the dark.
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2012, 07:38:24 am »
A mini CD?  Pure genius.

Thanks!  :applaud:
If I had only one wish, it would be for three more wishes.

brad808

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 818
  • Last login:June 15, 2019, 11:33:25 am
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2012, 08:17:42 am »
Really cool. That's the type of stuff I love discovering on this site.

Sent from my Desire HD

BadMouth

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8521
  • Last login:Yesterday at 10:41:49 pm
  • ...
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2012, 07:31:38 pm »
I planned to do rotary sticks someday using the same little rotary encoders that Bender used on his U360 mod, but they aren't cheap.

Was messing around with rotary ideas and came up with something that might be useful.
Instead of having everything attached to the end of the joystick shaft,
the disc would have a "+" shape cut out in the middle and the joystick shaft would be shaped to fit into that like a key with a little wiggle room.
The disc would then be restricted to a flat plane parallel with the bottom of the joystick body.
The disc would stay parallel to the bottom of the joystick body with the laser mouse mounted underneath it.
That way, the weight of the whole apparatus would be attached to the bottom of the joystick body instead of the joystick shaft.

I'm still leaning toward the little rotary encoders, but figured I'd throw this other idea out there for anyone who might want to tinker with the concept.

EDIT: an octagon shaped hole might be better, and you could use an allen head bit on the end of the joystick shaft.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 07:46:42 pm by BadMouth »

griffindodd

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1433
  • Last login:October 02, 2014, 12:04:03 pm
  • Old Account, now posting as 'Maximus'
    • Arcade Icons
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2012, 08:35:23 pm »
The problem with mounting to the joystick inseam of the shaft is the angle of lift that gets created between the surface being scanned and the laser.  Anything more than about a millimeter aand the laser won't track.  Keeping the laser and tracking surface inalignment is critical

pinballjim

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2012, 09:03:39 pm »
Here I was about to object and you covered it in the last ten seconds.


Brilliant.

BadMouth

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8521
  • Last login:Yesterday at 10:41:49 pm
  • ...
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2012, 09:25:34 pm »
The disc would be sandwiched between two flat layers and not attached to the joystick shaft, so no lift.  That is the idea, but upon further thought, the normal joystick movement could result in the laser mouse tracking slight rotation when there is none.

Idea downed.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 09:52:29 pm by BadMouth »

griffindodd

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1433
  • Last login:October 02, 2014, 12:04:03 pm
  • Old Account, now posting as 'Maximus'
    • Arcade Icons
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2012, 10:20:55 pm »
I have a couple of these coming to me in the next few days, going to look at trying to embed them inside a split balltop/handle...

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10982

griffindodd

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1433
  • Last login:October 02, 2014, 12:04:03 pm
  • Old Account, now posting as 'Maximus'
    • Arcade Icons
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2012, 10:24:23 pm »
the normal joystick movement could result in the laser mouse tracking slight rotation when there is none.
Yeah this is where optical can fall down unless you can calibrate a quantum flux level/dead zone. There's a reason Ikari warriors used switch rotation, I'm sure the stability of rotary position was one of them.

Fun stuff though, I'm enjoying the challenge here

Le Chuck

  • Saint, make a poll!
  • Wiki Contributor
  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5509
  • Last login:June 02, 2019, 07:37:23 pm
  • <insert personal text here>
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2012, 10:39:15 pm »
I ran a thread about what folks were looking for in rotary joys a while ago and the overwhelming majority opinion was that while optical spinner hacks are great if you're going to go through the trouble to rotary hack a joystick it needs to be an 8 or 12 position clicky encoder.  Downside is that those are a ---smurfette--- to wire and don't do a good job of doubling as a spinner in a pinch.  I like this hack and would like to see you anchor the support bar to the joy body to prevent rotation while still allowing vertical flex but don't know what I'm going to do on mine.  Follow in the great work you've done here are copycat an encoder hack.  Either way I'll be standing on the shoulders of others. 

griffindodd

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1433
  • Last login:October 02, 2014, 12:04:03 pm
  • Old Account, now posting as 'Maximus'
    • Arcade Icons
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2012, 12:53:50 pm »
I'm also going to play with the RGB Switch rotary encoders that I have coming from Sparkfun, it's a different approach so I'll compare the two.

The idea with these is to embed them inside a clear handle/balltop that is split so that the bottom half screws into the joystick shaft and just the top half of the handle/ball rotates with clicks. Looking at the output pins on these encoders I should be able to power them with the optipac spinner interface.

This way we have the whole mechanism for rotary and RGB lighting in the ball top which will convert any hollow shaft stick to both RGB and Rotary, not bad for $3.50
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 12:57:09 pm by griffindodd »

Le Chuck

  • Saint, make a poll!
  • Wiki Contributor
  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5509
  • Last login:June 02, 2019, 07:37:23 pm
  • <insert personal text here>
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2012, 12:58:09 pm »
I'm anxious to see your prototype.  I think it might be over engineered but I don't want to stop anybody's creative impulses. 

griffindodd

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1433
  • Last login:October 02, 2014, 12:04:03 pm
  • Old Account, now posting as 'Maximus'
    • Arcade Icons
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2012, 01:07:59 pm »
I think it might be over engineered

I love it when people use this term in this forum. I'm currently building a $2500 case to house a mediocre PC to play 30 year old games on a big ass CRT.... I think our entire hobby is the definition of the term  :laugh2:

Look up 'over-engineered' in a picture dictionary there is a picture of Le Chuck sitting on a 3/4 perfect scale model of a Speeder Bike  :droid

Le Chuck

  • Saint, make a poll!
  • Wiki Contributor
  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5509
  • Last login:June 02, 2019, 07:37:23 pm
  • <insert personal text here>
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2012, 01:17:29 pm »
True.  However, when given the choice of adapting the bottom of a joystick to read rotation vice sawing a balltop in half and making the hemispheres stay connected while rotating independently of each other whilst lighting up and transmitting rotational data well call me old fashioned but...

griffindodd

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1433
  • Last login:October 02, 2014, 12:04:03 pm
  • Old Account, now posting as 'Maximus'
    • Arcade Icons
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2012, 01:18:44 pm »
True.  However, when given the choice of adapting the bottom of a joystick to read rotation vice sawing a balltop in half and making the hemispheres stay connected while rotating independently of each other whilst lighting up and transmitting rotational data well call me old fashioned but...

pffft next you'll be saying you don't like rotating monitors  >:D

Le Chuck

  • Saint, make a poll!
  • Wiki Contributor
  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5509
  • Last login:June 02, 2019, 07:37:23 pm
  • <insert personal text here>
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2012, 01:23:53 pm »
True.  However, when given the choice of adapting the bottom of a joystick to read rotation vice sawing a balltop in half and making the hemispheres stay connected while rotating independently of each other whilst lighting up and transmitting rotational data well call me old fashioned but...

pffft next you'll be saying you don't like rotating monitors  >:D

 :laugh2:

PL1

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7209
  • Last login:Today at 10:12:40 am
  • Designated spam hunter
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2012, 01:23:53 pm »
Griffindodd - In order to keep the bottom of the stick from rotating, you might want to consider using the Import Flight Stick from Paradise (Ultimarc carries them, too)

It has a hollow shaft and is tapped for screws to hold the sides in place.

LMK if you want pics of the inside. (Got onoe just sitting around)


Scott

BadMouth

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8521
  • Last login:Yesterday at 10:41:49 pm
  • ...
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2012, 01:25:06 pm »
The resolution on these cheap encoders is too low to be of use for spinner or steering wheel games,
but if it's only going to be used for the SNK rotary joystick games, this little one is interesting.
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9117

12 pulses, 12 clicky indents.

Le Chuck

  • Saint, make a poll!
  • Wiki Contributor
  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5509
  • Last login:June 02, 2019, 07:37:23 pm
  • <insert personal text here>
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2012, 01:26:16 pm »
Griffindodd - In order to keep the bottom of the stick from rotating, you might want to consider using the Import Flight Stick from Paradise (Ultimarc carries them, too)

It has a hollow shaft and is tapped for screws to hold the sides in place.

LMK if you want pics of the inside. (Got onoe just sitting around)


Scott
I'd like those pics. 

griffindodd

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1433
  • Last login:October 02, 2014, 12:04:03 pm
  • Old Account, now posting as 'Maximus'
    • Arcade Icons
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2012, 01:27:36 pm »
The resolution on these cheap encoders is too low to be of use for spinner or steering wheel games,
but if it's only going to be used for the SNK rotary joystick games, this little one is interesting.
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9117

12 pulses, 12 clicky indents.

yeah my main focus here is Rotary Stick games like Ikari Warriors, i say leave the spinners for spinning games (for now at least) Clicky indents RULE!!!

emphatic

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1949
  • Last login:May 22, 2018, 12:44:54 am
  • -"Suck it, Donny!" -"No, YOU suck it.... more".
    • Emphatic's Video Game Collection
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2012, 01:37:08 pm »
Well done!  :cheers:

griffindodd

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1433
  • Last login:October 02, 2014, 12:04:03 pm
  • Old Account, now posting as 'Maximus'
    • Arcade Icons
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2012, 01:42:55 pm »
Also for the handles I will be making my own ball tops.

Split ping pong ball or similar in two. A ping pong ball is 40mm in Diameter

- In the 'top' half place the clear knob that I got for the encoder and fill the half ball with 'Everlasting Elegance Arcylic'.
- In the bottom half cut a hole in the top of the half sphere,
- place a joystick shaft nut at the hole,
- make a small chimney for the joytsick shaft to screw up into (roll a tube from sode bottle plastic)
- place the encoder on top of the chimney & thread the wires down through the chimney from the encoder
- Make sure the enconder shaft is above the 'fill line' of the half ping pong ball
- Fill with acrylic

Once they are set, peel off the ping pong ball plastic, push the two halves together and Bob's yer Uncle  :cheers:
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 01:57:15 pm by griffindodd »

BadMouth

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8521
  • Last login:Yesterday at 10:41:49 pm
  • ...
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2012, 01:53:05 pm »
I ordered the 12 position clicky ones.
When they come in, I'lll hook them up to the opti-wiz, fire up Ikari warriors and report back.

griffindodd

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1433
  • Last login:October 02, 2014, 12:04:03 pm
  • Old Account, now posting as 'Maximus'
    • Arcade Icons
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2012, 02:00:22 pm »
Here's a cool tutorial on how to make acrylic spheres...

http://www.spencerandbrown.com/mbb/juggling/acrylicballs.html
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 02:11:43 pm by griffindodd »

PL1

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7209
  • Last login:Today at 10:12:40 am
  • Designated spam hunter
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2012, 02:11:08 pm »
I'd like those pics.

You say it we play it.

Photo #1 - Bottom of the shaft (~1/4" inner diameter) Hemispherical pivot with tabs still on shaft.

Photo #2 - Shaft tapped for screw to hold shell.  Both sides are tapped.

Photo #3 - Hemispherical pivot with tabs clearly visible, upper spring holder, spring, lower spring holder, e-clip. (left to right along bottom)

Photo #4 - Closeup of socket where hemispherical pivot sits.  Recess for tabs clearly visible.


Scott
EDIT: Photo #5 - The correct order and orientation for the parts when reassembling the stick.  Insert the handle/shaft, dust washer, and hemispherical pivot from above the base and the rest of the parts from below the base.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2016, 08:13:29 am by PL1 »

griffindodd

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1433
  • Last login:October 02, 2014, 12:04:03 pm
  • Old Account, now posting as 'Maximus'
    • Arcade Icons
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2012, 02:31:08 pm »
I wonder if we can get ethernet cable through one of these shafts, I'm going to need 7 wires for RGB plus rotary. Anyone know of anything thinner with that wire count?

pinballjim

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2012, 02:35:38 pm »
I demand a custom trackball while you're casting acrylic.


griffindodd

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1433
  • Last login:October 02, 2014, 12:04:03 pm
  • Old Account, now posting as 'Maximus'
    • Arcade Icons
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2012, 02:38:08 pm »
I demand a custom trackball while you're casting acrylic.

Only if you let me use my Bedazzler Jim

pinballjim

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2012, 02:40:23 pm »
Eh.  Maybe?

I wasn't joking, but I get the impression from that accent you're overseas and shipping would kill the idea anyway.


griffindodd

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1433
  • Last login:October 02, 2014, 12:04:03 pm
  • Old Account, now posting as 'Maximus'
    • Arcade Icons
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2012, 02:41:37 pm »
Lol you can pick up my accent from text - damn you're good. yeah I'm English but I live in San Diego.

PL1

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7209
  • Last login:Today at 10:12:40 am
  • Designated spam hunter
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2012, 03:16:44 pm »
I wonder if we can get ethernet cable through one of these shafts

Yes -- Measured two ethernet cables with a micrometer, both were the same size as the current wire.


Scott

griffindodd

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1433
  • Last login:October 02, 2014, 12:04:03 pm
  • Old Account, now posting as 'Maximus'
    • Arcade Icons
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2012, 03:21:32 pm »
Isn't that an analog stick though?

My ultimate goal is to create an everything stick.

Switch Rotary in the handle
RGB Lit handle
4-8 Servo or top switchable
and maybe even optical rotary on the bottom with a lockable shaft

Le Chuck

  • Saint, make a poll!
  • Wiki Contributor
  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5509
  • Last login:June 02, 2019, 07:37:23 pm
  • <insert personal text here>
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2012, 03:22:27 pm »
Eh.  Maybe?

I wasn't joking, but I get the impression from that accent you're overseas and shipping would kill the idea anyway.

What do you want in the middle?  Monkey fetus?  Dead rat? Macaroni glued into an obscene shape? 

pinballjim

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2012, 03:38:22 pm »
If you're offering, how about one of these?


griffindodd

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1433
  • Last login:October 02, 2014, 12:04:03 pm
  • Old Account, now posting as 'Maximus'
    • Arcade Icons
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2012, 03:42:53 pm »
That's an awesome idea, might steal that

PL1

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7209
  • Last login:Today at 10:12:40 am
  • Designated spam hunter
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2012, 04:03:40 pm »
Isn't that an analog stick though?

Umm, didn't you notice the microswitches?  It's an 8-way with the same footprint and mounting plate as an LS-32/Zippyy.



Switch Rotary in the handle - Can do easy

RGB Lit handle - Can do easy

4-8 Servo or top switchable - No restrictor plates available for this stick AFAIK.  Bryan or Andy may have more info about manufacturer options if available.

Optical rotary on the bottom with a lockable shaft - Not possible with the current tabs on the hemisphere pivot, might be able to make a retractable sliding collar to take their place, but not an easy process/build.

For the record, I just suggested the Import Flight Stick as a base for an Ikari Warriors style rotary switch/handle on top.


Scott
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 04:09:05 pm by PL1 »

griffindodd

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1433
  • Last login:October 02, 2014, 12:04:03 pm
  • Old Account, now posting as 'Maximus'
    • Arcade Icons
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #37 on: September 12, 2012, 04:05:40 pm »
Thanks Scott, it's a very good option, obviously there are a lot of options to consider in the pursuit of the everything stick, I think it's pretty close to cold fusion and the god particle

Le Chuck

  • Saint, make a poll!
  • Wiki Contributor
  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5509
  • Last login:June 02, 2019, 07:37:23 pm
  • <insert personal text here>
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #38 on: September 12, 2012, 04:09:03 pm »
PBJ, Those sugar skulls are teh kewl.  I need to do some reading on casting in layers without a seam.  That's the problem I've run into doing suspensions in spheres is that you can always see either a filled nail hole or the seam from a pour done in stages.  Supposedly there's some goop that will set enough to remove supports but still blend the seams on this type of a pour.  What size are you looking for?  3"?

griffindodd

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1433
  • Last login:October 02, 2014, 12:04:03 pm
  • Old Account, now posting as 'Maximus'
    • Arcade Icons
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #39 on: September 12, 2012, 04:17:08 pm »
PBJ, Those sugar skulls are teh kewl.  I need to do some reading on casting in layers without a seam.  That's the problem I've run into doing suspensions in spheres is that you can always see either a filled nail hole or the seam from a pour done in stages.  Supposedly there's some goop that will set enough to remove supports but still blend the seams on this type of a pour.  What size are you looking for?  3"?

Do you wait for a 50% set before putting in your embedded object or do you wait for 100% set before adding and putting in your next layer? It's my understanding that a 50% set is the right way to do this

Le Chuck

  • Saint, make a poll!
  • Wiki Contributor
  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5509
  • Last login:June 02, 2019, 07:37:23 pm
  • <insert personal text here>
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #40 on: September 12, 2012, 04:26:29 pm »
You wait until the part won't float or sink.  I'd say closer to 25% set.  As soon as possible.  Just with some of the cheaper resins, even tho they say they're self bonding, I still notice a faint join line.  The big pain in the ass is polishing off the sprue and mould seams at the end.  I used to have a good three part mold to do embeds but it is too small for this application.  I also don't know which resin would have the durability the trackball would need.  Most of the resins look great but won't stand up very long to that kind of use. 

griffindodd

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1433
  • Last login:October 02, 2014, 12:04:03 pm
  • Old Account, now posting as 'Maximus'
    • Arcade Icons
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #41 on: September 12, 2012, 04:46:48 pm »
Ordered some resin and some ping pong balls, should be here in 2 days (I love Amazon Prime) the rotary encoders are already en-route, so first of all I have to figure out how to wire them
Outputs on the encoder...

Datasheet here

quote from a post on the sparkfun web site...

Quote
The datasheet doesn’t say which pin goes to what, so here you go: The side with 3 pins is the rotary encoder output – central pin looks to be common. The easiest way to use this with an arduino is to connect common to ground, and then use the Arduino inputs in pull-up mode.

The LEDs and central button are interfaced using the side with 5 pins. With the shaft facing away from you, looking at the bottom of the device, with the 5-pin side on the top and 3-pin side on the bottom, the pins are: Common (+5v), Blue, Button, Green, Red. Pressing the shaft button shorts the +5v common and the center pin. There are no internal resistors, so be sure to use one on each of the 3 LED pins. Use a 120ohm (or higher) resistor on the red, and a 68ohm (or higher) resistor on the other two, if you’re using 5v.

Looks like a will need a U-HID nano or A-PAC

- U-HID Analog  ---------------------------- Pin B   
- U-HID +5V     ---------------------------- Pin A
- U-HID -5V   ---------------------------- Pin C

On Pac64
- +5V   ---------------------------- Pin 5
- BLUE   ---------------------------- Pin 4
- GREEN   ---------------------------- Pin 2
- RED   ---------------------------- Pin 1

On iPac (If you want to use the button)
- Button   ---------------------------- Pin 3

Pressing the button shorts pin 3 to pin 5
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 05:55:44 pm by griffindodd »

pinballjim

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #42 on: September 12, 2012, 05:24:42 pm »
All I know is I want a Dia de los Muertos trackball.   :P  I can buy the ceramic skulls for a couple of bucks each and they're just about the perfect size.

Gray_Area

  • -Banned-
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3363
  • Last login:June 23, 2013, 06:52:30 pm
  • -Banned-
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #43 on: September 12, 2012, 05:59:38 pm »
Here I was about to object and you covered it in the last ten seconds.


Brilliant.

Yah, I was waiting for that part, too, although then I noticed I had overlooked the obvious.


The embedded idea is cool, though not everybody is going to want to replace their shafts.

The miniaturation happening is making this look better and better.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 06:01:48 pm by Gray_Area »
-Banned-

BadMouth

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8521
  • Last login:Yesterday at 10:41:49 pm
  • ...
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #44 on: September 12, 2012, 06:25:53 pm »
A-Pac is for potentiometer based controls.

A U-hid or U-hid nano can be configured to work.
An Opti-Pac or Opti-Wiz(groovygamegear) are made specifically for optical encoders.

An old roller ball mouse hack is the other option.
Not sure if the low resolution of this encoder would be an issue.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 10:27:36 pm by BadMouth »

griffindodd

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1433
  • Last login:October 02, 2014, 12:04:03 pm
  • Old Account, now posting as 'Maximus'
    • Arcade Icons
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #45 on: September 12, 2012, 06:29:04 pm »
Thanks for that Badmouth, now I know what I should be looking at.

griffindodd

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1433
  • Last login:October 02, 2014, 12:04:03 pm
  • Old Account, now posting as 'Maximus'
    • Arcade Icons
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #46 on: September 13, 2012, 05:05:31 pm »
After yesterdays banter backward and forward my brain got stewing on this.

I think I have come up with a dirt cheap (Under $4) 12 step rotary switch solution that will mount to any joystick and will not require anything other than a standard button controller that most people are using already anyway.

I didn't like the fact that the rotary encoders I bought from Sparkfun would require me to spend another $35+ on a controller board like the U-HID Nano.

So first I am going to attack this mechanical switch approach for the rotary games like Ikari Warriors and develop a way to be able to engage/disengage the shaft rotation for switched vs optical mode.

Stay tuned on this one.

Gray_Area

  • -Banned-
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3363
  • Last login:June 23, 2013, 06:52:30 pm
  • -Banned-
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #47 on: September 15, 2012, 03:34:01 pm »
After yesterdays banter backward and forward my brain got stewing on this.

I think I have come up with a dirt cheap (Under $4) 12 step rotary switch solution that will mount to any joystick and will not require anything other than a standard button controller that most people are using already anyway.

I didn't like the fact that the rotary encoders I bought from Sparkfun would require me to spend another $35+ on a controller board like the U-HID Nano.

So first I am going to attack this mechanical switch approach for the rotary games like Ikari Warriors and develop a way to be able to engage/disengage the shaft rotation for switched vs optical mode.

Stay tuned on this one.

Well, Andy and Randy could probably augment the Sparksfun unit as a PNP solution, or make their own. But I'm eager to see your newest epiphany.
-Banned-

BadMouth

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8521
  • Last login:Yesterday at 10:41:49 pm
  • ...
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #48 on: September 17, 2012, 08:41:18 pm »
Just did a little testing with one of the little $3 clicky 12-position encoders from sparkfun.

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9117

The detents aren't as pronounced as I'd hoped and will probably seem even less so after installed since the joystick top will provide more leverage.

I had my doubts at first.  The guy in Ikari Warriors flipped to seemingly random positions, but after playing the hi/lo game with the sensetivity in MAME, I got close enough to the correct setting that it worked properly.  The guy faces whichever direction the encoder is pointing, rotating one position for each detent without getting screwed up.  :)
EDIT: THESE WORK ON IKARI WARRIORS, BUT DON'T EVEN REGISTER FOR MAPPING ON HEAVY BARREL AND VICTORY ROAD, PRESUMEABLY FROM THE LOW RESOLUTION.

Now to fit them to my joysticks and see if they affect the feel while playing other games. 
Not sure when I'll get around to it, since this is one of too many projects and I haven't had any free time in a month.  :'(

I hope this works out well, as it's a fairly cheap solution using all new parts.
$6 for a pair of these and $15 for an Opti-Wiz, plus shipping and a few parts from the hardware store for mounting.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 08:23:04 pm by BadMouth »

griffindodd

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1433
  • Last login:October 02, 2014, 12:04:03 pm
  • Old Account, now posting as 'Maximus'
    • Arcade Icons
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #49 on: September 17, 2012, 10:13:13 pm »
Good stuff.

I just received my parts for my little mechanical experiment so I'm going to see if I can get them working and report back.

PL1

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7209
  • Last login:Today at 10:12:40 am
  • Designated spam hunter
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #50 on: September 17, 2012, 11:31:23 pm »
Here's another of my crazy spitball ideas to throw into the mix.

The concept uses a flat metal semi-circular pivot like those found in the old analog joysticks to position the rotary encoder at the end of the shaft and keep it from twisting out of alignment.

Bottom view -

Haven't worked out the exact "clicker pen" mechanism to engage and disengage the sliding sleeve, or if it would be better to move the encoder to engage with the sleeve and shaft.


Scott

griffindodd

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1433
  • Last login:October 02, 2014, 12:04:03 pm
  • Old Account, now posting as 'Maximus'
    • Arcade Icons
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #51 on: September 18, 2012, 12:13:00 am »
Ok here's where I am up to so far...



- The 12 tooth metal sprocket is attached to the end of the joystick shaft with a locking bolt, the sprocket cost $2.79 from Surplus Center.
- The switch plate (represented by the mini CD) spins freely around the sprocket shaft but it restricted from rotating by slots around poles/screws at the edges.
- The switch is a momentary-off-momentary giving two switch positions, click momentary left and click momentary right, hook these up to your keyboard controller of choice. The switch always flicks back to off when released. $0.50 from BG Micro.

Unfortunately this is as much as I have been able to construct due to my lack of small cutting tools to make a decent slotted switch plate, it's starting to get very frustrating that I can't fabricate some of these more precise pieces that I need to test ideas. But I'm sure you guys can see the concept here. I think I need to invest in a good Dremel and various spinny cutting doo hickeys
« Last Edit: September 18, 2012, 12:14:44 am by griffindodd »

Gray_Area

  • -Banned-
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3363
  • Last login:June 23, 2013, 06:52:30 pm
  • -Banned-
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #52 on: September 18, 2012, 05:22:02 pm »
Ok here's where I am up to so far...

How is 'return-to-center' of the guy on-screen handled?...or is it a factor?
-Banned-

griffindodd

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1433
  • Last login:October 02, 2014, 12:04:03 pm
  • Old Account, now posting as 'Maximus'
    • Arcade Icons
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #53 on: September 18, 2012, 05:29:18 pm »
I've only tested on Ikari Warriors that doesn't have that game feature, you just psin the handle to point in the direction you want

pinballjim

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #54 on: September 18, 2012, 05:49:44 pm »
Here's another probably dumb idea... instead of doing this optical stuff, why not have a pin sticking off the bottom of the joystick that rotates the switch used for the mouse scroll wheel?  It'd take some creative mounting but at least you'd get a click sensation.


griffindodd

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1433
  • Last login:October 02, 2014, 12:04:03 pm
  • Old Account, now posting as 'Maximus'
    • Arcade Icons
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #55 on: September 18, 2012, 11:50:01 pm »
Well this 'cheap' mod is getting a bit expensive, but being able to fab my own parts is essential so...


griffindodd

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1433
  • Last login:October 02, 2014, 12:04:03 pm
  • Old Account, now posting as 'Maximus'
    • Arcade Icons
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #56 on: September 19, 2012, 01:01:32 am »
I haven't had time to fab anything tonight as we had friends over for dinner, but I did make this template for the switch support plates. One with a 3/8 diameter hole which should fit over most stick shafts and a second to sandwich around the locking collar of the sprocket I am using. This will sandwich the cog wheel and switches in a nice small protected channel and stop the switches from rotating at all. The slot runs along a mounting bolt off the joystick mounting plate.

Artwork edge size of this image should be printed at 3" x 3" for true scale

« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 01:03:42 am by griffindodd »

BadMouth

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8521
  • Last login:Yesterday at 10:41:49 pm
  • ...
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #57 on: September 19, 2012, 09:37:48 am »
I wandered around Lowes for a bit last night looking for cheap parts to repurpose.
Spent $4 on various pieces to try as a coupler between the encoder and joystick shaft.
Wasn't really happy with any of them.  The closest thing was a nylon spacer that I'd have to drill to accept a set screw.
Ended up ordering a pair of these of fleabay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-35mm-x-6-35-CNC-Motor-Jaw-Shaft-Coupler-6-35mm-x-6-35mm-Flexible-Coupling-0-/251049730539?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a73bae1eb
Now I have to wait weeks for them to come in.  :(

I'm still looking for something that could work as a yoke (or whatever you want to call the part that links the encoder to the post on the side of the joystick)


I have some 1/4" ABS that I could cut them out of.  Also considered cutting them out of project circuit board (would make mounting the encoder easy).
But I'd like to find something already slotted that anyone can buy and use without having to do much cutting.  Oh, and it should only cost a couple bucks.  :P
I've seen a paper clip used, but would like to have something more substantial.

Any ideas?

griffindodd

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1433
  • Last login:October 02, 2014, 12:04:03 pm
  • Old Account, now posting as 'Maximus'
    • Arcade Icons
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #58 on: September 19, 2012, 10:31:58 am »
Yeah I'm having the same issue with that part.  Just spent an hour with the dremel screaming away at some rolled steel to make my own.

griffindodd

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1433
  • Last login:October 02, 2014, 12:04:03 pm
  • Old Account, now posting as 'Maximus'
    • Arcade Icons
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #59 on: September 19, 2012, 11:39:13 am »
Did a little this morning before I left for the office.

Made the mounting plates, not too pretty but they are steel so they will be super durable


Here's how they assemble around the sprocket with the microswitches sandwiched inbetween, I've ordered some more suitable switches but they are coming from the moon, or China or somewhere that takes about 3 weeks so I'll have to wait on those before progressing.


This is based on this idea of using two lever arm microswitches in place of the on-off-on momentary switch that gave me concerns about longevity.


One of the advantages of this design is that it could be a completely self contained sealed unit with just the wires to connect and the lock collar to attach to your joystick shaft
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 11:45:45 am by griffindodd »

Le Chuck

  • Saint, make a poll!
  • Wiki Contributor
  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5509
  • Last login:June 02, 2019, 07:37:23 pm
  • <insert personal text here>
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #60 on: September 19, 2012, 11:58:36 am »
^ This is a really simple and quite elegant solution.  The acid test will be in how it plays but there is no reason why if it works that this could not become a very doable mod or even an affordable product.   :applaud: :cheers: :applaud:

Xiaou2

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3957
  • Last login:April 16, 2017, 01:50:02 pm
  • NOM NOM NOM
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #61 on: September 19, 2012, 12:35:41 pm »
I dont think the leafs on the typical sub-micros are strong enough to take that kind of abuse.  They will bend and wear quickly.

(we had a similar problem on a commercial arcade basketball machine, and that was only one-way -vs- the non-intended 2way setup)

 I think you may instead want something like a roller-bearing style or switch activation.

griffindodd

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1433
  • Last login:October 02, 2014, 12:04:03 pm
  • Old Account, now posting as 'Maximus'
    • Arcade Icons
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #62 on: September 21, 2012, 06:48:08 pm »
Here's a very simple approach to adding analog to a switched joy using one of these...

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9426

Now this is ultimate lo-tech, put potentially doable


Gray_Area

  • -Banned-
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3363
  • Last login:June 23, 2013, 06:52:30 pm
  • -Banned-
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #63 on: September 22, 2012, 07:23:38 pm »
By 'return-to-center' I mean when does the game poll for the north facement of the dude? Did you notice it spontaneously jerking one direction or the other?
-Banned-

BadMouth

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8521
  • Last login:Yesterday at 10:41:49 pm
  • ...
Re: $2 USB Optical rotary upgrade for most joysticks
« Reply #64 on: October 31, 2012, 09:03:18 pm »
Udate on the $3 sparkfun encoders........

Long story short, they work on Ikari Warriors (which I did all my testing with) but for some reason won't even register when mapping controls on Heavy Barrel and Victory road.
Pretty sure it's caused by the super low resolution since I swapped in a 900 line encoder and it registed immediately using the same inputs on the same Opti-Wiz.  It would have been an awesome cheap solution if they'd worked out.

 :angry:

Anyways, here's the setup I came up with for others venturing down this path.
To join the joystick shaft to the encoder, I ordered a set of these 6mm shaft couplers off fleabay:


These were going on Seimitsu LS-56 joysticks which have 6mm (1/4) shafts.
Since the joystick shaft was the same size as the encoder shaft, I decided to cut it down to save height.

Here are my parts:

Optical encoder, post made by hammering aluminum rod into an aluminum base, yoke cut from 1/4" abs plastic, & the coupler.




I made the slot in the yoke 1/4" wide thinking any wiggle room would result in an unwanted dead zone.  This line of thinking was off.
It needs some wiggle room, or at least a thinner yoke, because it will bind when the joystick is at an angle.
This binding combined with the inside of the yoke not being perfectly smooth resulted in a grinding feeling being transmitted through the joystick.
If it weren't for that, I don't think it would have made the joystick feel noticeably different.

The tape on the pins of the encoder is because the motion of the joystick was causing them to make contact with each other.
The stiff wire I was using probably wasn't a good choice either, but this was just a test.
If I were to rebuild this using the same encoder, I'd extend the yoke a bit behind it and notch out a place to zip tie the wires to the yoke.

I was able to play Iraki Warriors and the stick tracks as it should, the guy moving in a 1:1 ratio with the stick.
I didn't like this so much and wanted him to turn faster. 

I was able to get the coupler to fit a Sanwa JLF by widening the hole on one side with a drill press, but the coupler hits the tabs that hold the center piece of the restrictor in place.  Although these couplers can be tightened down, they don't move very much at all, so the sizing has to be extremely accurate.

I'm disappointed.  I really wanted these cheap little encoders to work.


« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 09:10:22 pm by BadMouth »