Hard Drives?

[mytymaus007]

Is it me or is it the last weekend of the summer. I thought back in January HD manufacturers said the prices will be back down! not sure about everyone else but i need Lots of Space and i hate to pay for something $50 to $100 more than i paid 2 years ago. What Gives?

[Turvey]

Don't know about over there but I've just got an offer for a 3TB HD for £110($175) seems like a good deal to me 

http://www.ebuyer.com/weekend-deals?utm_source=b2c_01-09-2012&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=b2c_weekend

[mytymaus007]

Don't know about over there but I've just got an offer for a 3TB HD for £110($175) seems like a good deal to me 

http://www.ebuyer.com/weekend-deals?utm_source=b2c_01-09-2012&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=b2c_weekend

seen 3tb for $99 over here last year

[MonMotha]

$99 for 3TB would have been an unusually good sale even prior to the Thailand flooding.  Typical sale prices for 3TB around this time last year were $115-135.

I'm regularly seeing 3TB for $130-150 now, so we're pretty close to where we were, though Seagate slashed their warranty from 5 years to 1 year.  Western Digital is still at 3 years, and I think the Hitachi branded drives still have 3 year warranties on most of them.

$175 for 3TB is a typical non-promotional price in the USA, but it wouldn't be a good sale.  I know UK prices tend to be a bit higher than US, though.

[wbassett]

I'm still waiting for them to get back to where they were but something tells me the may never get back down to last years prices.

I have 24TBs in my video server and still have 6 empty bays and some 1TB drives to replace with 2TB drives, so I am hoping they go back down at least for a little while.  Looks like my arcade will top out at around 6-8TB in total storage.  So by the time I have everything I need I'll be around 40TB...  and probably need to start upgrading lol.

[mytymaus007]

I'm still waiting for them to get back to where they were but something tells me the may never get back down to last years prices.

I have 24TBs in my video server and still have 6 empty bays and some 1TB drives to replace with 2TB drives, so I am hoping they go back down at least for a little while.  Looks like my arcade will top out at around 6-8TB in total storage.  So by the time I have everything I need I'll be around 40TB...  and probably need to start upgrading lol.

Nice I have 6 TB in my cab now looking to get another 2 4tb hard drives 40TB thats sick not to big on collecting videos but maybe when prices drop drastically but probably never will Damm

[Turvey]

Don't know about over there but I've just got an offer for a 3TB HD for £110($175) seems like a good deal to me 

http://www.ebuyer.com/weekend-deals?utm_source=b2c_01-09-2012&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=b2c_weekend

seen 3tb for $99 over here last year

$175 for 3TB is a typical non-promotional price in the USA, but it wouldn't be a good sale.  I know UK prices tend to be a bit higher than US, though.

Jeez! We really are ripped off over here aren't we? 

[MonMotha]

The thing to do seems to be to take the price in US dollars, slap a pound sterling symbol in front of that number, and call that the UK price.  Eurozone pricing seems to follow a similar phenomenon, though the Euro is closer to the USD in terms of value than the GBP.

The few times someone in the UK has asked me to send them something, they've bemoaned the outrageous import duties and taxes.  That may be part of the problem: not only do your retailers have to pay those import duties, it also puts up yet another barrier to consumers simply buying direct from overseas (e.g. from US sellers or from China, etc.).

Then again, the Australians seem to have a similar problem, and I don't think their import duties are as high.  It may just be an issue of economy of scale in the shipping, but at the prices you guys seem to pay, it might be cheaper to have stuff shipped individually from the USA were it not for the duties and taxes.  I guess your sales taxes (I guess it's technically a VAT) are higher than ours, too, and, unlike in the US where sales tax typically ignored/dodged on inter-state transactions, let alone individual international imports, you guys seem to get formally charged full VAT on imports.

[Unstupid]

Meh... Spinning Hard Drives are so 20th century!

[ark_ader]

The damage to the hard drive Plants due to recent ongoing floods in Thailand is the cause for higher prices.

To be honest this is a good thing.  It is time for SSD to get a strong foot hold in the market, and then we can wean ourselves off magnetic media which can increase our PC's carbon footprint.

SSD prices are coming down, and with the new technology coming out all the time that stores more for less, can only be a blessing for tech industries.

Those with huge collections, maybe it is time to start embracing cloud technology. 

[MonMotha]

Those with huge collections, maybe it is time to start embracing cloud technology. 

And what do you think provides the backing capacity for multi-terrabyte "cloud" storage systems?  I kinda doubt that most of the providers you're willing to pay for are storing all that on SSDs.  The price would be outrageous and the benefits negligible.

Also, moving 1TB on my home Internet connection would take...about a month or two (to send it "toward" the cloud, roughly 1/10th that down).  That's 1.5Mbps up, typical (if even high end) for the USA.  It would also cost me an arm and a leg due to AT&T's retarded 250GB/mo cap, but note that Comcast recently REMOVED their corresponding cap.  I'm not sure that "cloud" storage is the answer for home users with multi-terrabyte data storage needs.  Even businesses with "real" connections probably have a better use for that bandwidth.

Also, carbon footprint?  I can't comment offhand as to the manufacturing energy usage of SSD vs. revolving magnetic media, though I'd suspect it's actually LOWER per-GB for revolving metal.  Power usage at the PC end for your hard drive isn't a big deal next to your CPU, GPU, or probably even RAM, though you can probably save a few odd watts (at great monetary cost if you really do need multiple terrabytes).

Flash memory is getting better pretty rapidly, but advances are still being made in the revolving metal department, too.  Now, many users don't need the higher capacity offered by revolving metal and thus can stomach putting in a moderate size SSD (which can now be had at prices comparable to a hard drive, albeit usually at less than 1/10th the capacity).  1TB of SSD will still set you back nearly $700US for a low-end consumer grade solution, though, while a single 1TB HDD is often well less than $100.  We're talking price differences comparable to what consumers often pay for entire systems, so this is not negligible, and data storage needs to continue to grow in some user groups (videographers and photographers, especially, and of course the stereotypical porn collector).

[ark_ader]

Those with huge collections, maybe it is time to start embracing cloud technology. 

And what do you think provides the backing capacity for multi-terrabyte "cloud" storage systems?  I kinda doubt that most of the providers you're willing to pay for are storing all that on SSDs.  The price would be outrageous and the benefits negligible.

Also, moving 1TB on my home Internet connection would take...about a month or two (to send it "toward" the cloud, roughly 1/10th that down).  That's 1.5Mbps up, typical (if even high end) for the USA.  It would also cost me an arm and a leg due to AT&T's retarded 250GB/mo cap, but note that Comcast recently REMOVED their corresponding cap.  I'm not sure that "cloud" storage is the answer for home users with multi-terrabyte data storage needs.  Even businesses with "real" connections probably have a better use for that bandwidth.

Also, carbon footprint?  I can't comment offhand as to the manufacturing energy usage of SSD vs. revolving magnetic media, though I'd suspect it's actually LOWER per-GB for revolving metal.  Power usage at the PC end for your hard drive isn't a big deal next to your CPU, GPU, or probably even RAM, though you can probably save a few odd watts (at great monetary cost if you really do need multiple terrabytes).

Flash memory is getting better pretty rapidly, but advances are still being made in the revolving metal department, too.  Now, many users don't need the higher capacity offered by revolving metal and thus can stomach putting in a moderate size SSD (which can now be had at prices comparable to a hard drive, albeit usually at less than 1/10th the capacity).  1TB of SSD will still set you back nearly $700US for a low-end consumer grade solution, though, while a single 1TB HDD is often well less than $100.  We're talking price differences comparable to what consumers often pay for entire systems, so this is not negligible, and data storage needs to continue to grow in some user groups (videographers and photographers, especially, and of course the stereotypical porn collector).

Rewind your self back to when Windows 95 came out.  If you remember (if you are old enough) 1mb EDO was over $100 a stick, but due to the popularity of Win 95 those memory prices dropped considerably.  Same with hard drives and CDROMs  and prices continued to drop and technology surrounding those operating systems continued to thrive.  With this crisis in Thailand, the SSD will have to drop and it is doing pretty well so far.  SSD technology needs to thrive too.

1TB up on cloud?  Maybe not if you are not on Fibre (Europe is) but it is an option to look into.   

[Haze]

SDDs aren't a magic solution to anything tho, they're faster and that's about it.

They're still as prone to failure as HDDs (it's guaranteed and I imagine as capacity ramps up you'll start to see cheaper less durable parts used under the assumption they'll be rewritten less) and in such cases they still fail just as ungraciously as HDDs, now you see your data, now you don't.  That could be down to shoddy controller chips, but still, if it fails you don't really care which part was to blame.  We're also seeing arcade games using flash chips to be just as unreliable as those using HDDs, they seem to hit a point where they degrade fast / lose entire blocks of data.

As for 'cloud'  If you value something it might be a useful backup, but as primary storage I can't believe people are still buying into that, you have no control over your own data, think something is safer because 100 people have it?  If it's all on the same cloud storage system in reality there is probably only 1 copy of it.  Putting your files in the cloud is like putting your personal belongings in a storage locker in Antarctica, as long as you're not too bothered about the stuff you put there, it's fine, beyond that?  I'll stick to my personal storage and backups thanks.

[alfonzotan]

It does kind of suck.  The 500GB drive I bought for my cabinet about 18 months ago was $25, brand new, free shipping from NewEgg.  Nothing like that right now.

Best deal I know of right now is the external Seagate 3TB at Costco for $129.  Simple to decase it if you want the internal drive (still cheaper than buying one by itself).

[MonMotha]

Rewind your self back to when Windows 95 came out.  If you remember (if you are old enough) 1mb EDO was over $100 a stick, but due to the popularity of Win 95 those memory prices dropped considerably.  Same with hard drives and CDROMs  and prices continued to drop and technology surrounding those operating systems continued to thrive.  With this crisis in Thailand, the SSD will have to drop and it is doing pretty well so far.  SSD technology needs to thrive too.

1TB up on cloud?  Maybe not if you are not on Fibre (Europe is) but it is an option to look into.

For Win95, my 486 was upgraded to 12MB of RAM.  Now, this was fast page (with parity!), not EDO, but it certainly wasn't $1200 for that upgrade.  I think you're off by a couple years on that pricing...  I also got a (laughably huge, at the time) 1 gigabyte hard drive and a shiny new 4x CD-ROM drive (a major upgrade from my old 2x).

You'll note that enterprises still use TAPE when they want to store massive amounts of data and don't need comparatively instant access.  It's cheaper once you get over a few 100TB and surprisingly reliable.  I suspect this is also what will happen in the SSD/HDD "contest".  SSDs will get cheap enough for most users to just use as their default storage means, since they won't need the substantially larger capacities offered by revolving metal drives and will want the benefits SSD provides.  Users pushing the edge on data storage capacities, like those currently storing multi-TB datasets, will probably stick with hard drives for their bulk data storage for some time to come, possibly (or even probably) using an SSD for their main OS/application storage.

Also, even with 1Gb Ethernet (typical end-user LAN connectivity), it still takes nearly 4 hours to move 1TB of data.  Internet connections to the home are not going to be there in the US for some time due to telecom monopolies.  FTTH and DOCSIS3 networks are available now in most major cities, but they generally top out at ~100-200Mbps "down" and 20-50Mbps "up".  That "up" number is very limiting for "cloud" storage of large amounts of data.  Anyway, my point on "cloud" storage was twofold: even if you are putting your terrabytes of data "in the cloud", the cloud provider is just going to dump it on conventional revolving metal disks most of the time, so there will still be a market for them even if everybody did that, and you'd still effectively be using them, though your "cloud" provider will hide most of the issues associated with small HDD installations from you (at the cost of being limited by your Internet connection, which was the second part of my point).

I think that there will probably be other storage technologies available (e.g. bulk MRAM or FeRAM or even memristor based memories) by the time the entire computing world is able to completely get rid of revolving metal storage mechanisms.  That's not to say it won't ever happen, but it's not "so soon" as to really start hopping on that bandwagon for large datasets right now unless you really need the performance offered by Flash-based SSDs.  Consider that 5-10 years is an eternity in the world of personal computing.

FWIW, my laptop has an SSD (250GB).  My servers, which generally simply need to store data in somewhat sizable amounts (a few TB), not crunch it, have revolving metal drives.  Seems an appropriate application for each storage media at the moment and probably for at least a while to come.

[Gatt]

Also, even with 1Gb Ethernet (typical end-user LAN connectivity), it still takes nearly 4 hours to move 1TB of data.  Internet connections to the home are not going to be there in the US for some time due to telecom monopolies.  FTTH and DOCSIS3 networks are available now in most major cities, but they generally top out at ~100-200Mbps "down" and 20-50Mbps "up".  That "up" number is very limiting for "cloud" storage of large amounts of data.  Anyway, my point on "cloud" storage was twofold: even if you are putting your terrabytes of data "in the cloud", the cloud provider is just going to dump it on conventional revolving metal disks most of the time, so there will still be a market for them even if everybody did that, and you'd still effectively be using them, though your "cloud" provider will hide most of the issues associated with small HDD installations from you (at the cost of being limited by your Internet connection, which was the second part of my point).

Actually,  what they'll do is:  For common pieces of unchanging data,  they'll store it once and given everyone a pointer to those files.  If 1 million people have a full MAME set stored,  and those files are all identical,  it makes no sense to store them 1 million times.  Store them once,  give everyone a pointer to them for only a few bits of space,  and save alot of money on storage costs.  It's likely that were cloud storage to take off,  that's how it'll work.  A good algorithm would even do a CRC client side and skip the upload entirely,  saving both parties alot of time/energy/bandwidth.

I'd argue that a substantial amount of data would be able to be handled that way.

But honestly,  I sincerely doubt "Cloud storage" is ever going to be anything but a small niche product.  Privacy concerns are pretty large with it,  as is security.  I mean seriously,  a huge number of people won't even enter their credit card numbers on the internet even today,  I doubt highly they're going to be ok with Cloud Storage keeping their data.

[Gray_Area]

Actually,  what they'll do is:  For common pieces of unchanging data,  they'll store it once and given everyone a pointer to those files.  If 1 million people have a full MAME set stored,  and those files are all identical,  it makes no sense to store them 1 million times.  Store them once,  give everyone a pointer to them for only a few bits of space,  and save alot of money on storage costs.  It's likely that were cloud storage to take off,  that's how it'll work.  A good algorithm would even do a CRC client side and skip the upload entirely,  saving both parties alot of time/energy/bandwidth.

Socialism!

[MTPPC]

The system I'm typing on right now is a custom hybrid. It has Ubuntu on a 64GB SSD with my home directory on a 1.5GB conventional HD. I also run win2k in virtualbox off of the ssd for startup and shutdown performance. I use quickbooks 2000 and have no need or desire for newer software. I also use windows remote desktop viewer under win2k.

My point is that practical use of a computer suggests the data storage configuration. Cloud is a bunch of nonsense being sold to people to gain lock in. I'm not going to pay anyone to store my data when I can buy as much storage as I want for $100/TB. My pinball cabinet also runs off an SSD for boot speed and so I can nudge the hell out of the machine with no worries about a mechanical drive. Again, how you use the computer will dictate how your data should be stored. If you want to give your data to some faceless corporation, don't be surprised when they can't or won't give it back.

Back on topic, I'm seeing prices on storage dropping right now. Especially on the USB2.0 external drives. They're being clearanced everywhere. Tigerdircet has 1 TB drives for $75 after rebate and $90 with no rebate right now. 1.5TB for $87 with free shipping is on the same page. I think you just need a little more patience for the deals to work their way through the supply chain.

[bullrees]

I bought 2 internal 2 TB drives a few months back for 89.00us each from best buy.
Model: STBD2000101

Looks like they are back up to 110.00us at best buy.

99.99 each on new egg now.(in cart price)

[Vigo]

Drives are going back down in price. I just watch Slickdeals. Yesterday I bought a 2tb external 7200 drive with usb 3.0 for $75 at staples. Sure, it is a dealhunt, but it seems to be comparable to prices before the spike hit.

http://slickdeals.net/f/5151856-Seagate-Expansion-2TB-USB-3-0-Black-Desktop-Hard-Drive-78-74-AC-Staples

[ark_ader]

Rewind your self back to when Windows 95 came out.  If you remember (if you are old enough) 1mb EDO was over $100 a stick, but due to the popularity of Win 95 those memory prices dropped considerably.   

For Win95, my 486 was upgraded to 12MB of RAM.  Now, this was fast page (with parity!), not EDO, but it certainly wasn't $1200 for that upgrade.  I think you're off by a couple years on that pricing...  I also got a (laughably huge, at the time) 1 gigabyte hard drive and a shiny new 4x CD-ROM drive (a major upgrade from my old 2x).

When win 95 came out they were selling 4MB sticks at $100 each.  Before that they were a heck of a lot more.  I had a 486 DLC and simms were $100 a mb.  My point was that SSDs given the right exposure will be embraced by the public as a viable storage facility, while HDD stocks are at these ludicrous prices, which will reduce the stranglehold on the data storage market that magnetic drives have.  Yes I had a full height 2gb drive too which had to be replaced several times due to failure.  Yes memories....

[mytymaus007]

Drives are going back down in price. I just watch Slickdeals. Yesterday I bought a 2tb external 7200 drive with usb 3.0 for $75 at staples. Sure, it is a dealhunt, but it seems to be comparable to prices before the spike hit.

http://slickdeals.net/f/5151856-Seagate-Expansion-2TB-USB-3-0-Black-Desktop-Hard-Drive-78-74-AC-Staples

Good Looking but missed it to late! ended 8/28/12 but yes that was a good deal

[Gray_Area]

Drives are going back down in price. I just watch Slickdeals. Yesterday I bought a 2tb external 7200 drive with usb 3.0 for $75 at staples. Sure, it is a dealhunt, but it seems to be comparable to prices before the spike hit.

http://slickdeals.net/f/5151856-Seagate-Expansion-2TB-USB-3-0-Black-Desktop-Hard-Drive-78-74-AC-Staples

Good Looking but missed it to late! ended 8/28/12 but yes that was a good deal

That's what it says, but there are numbers that still activate. Or at least I managed to find a number that worked, just now. The only issue is that Amazon is no longer pricing them at $99, so you can't get a further discount. Still, $104 ain't bad. I don't have any USB 3 devices, so will in the mean time de-case it and use it in my main PC.

[MonMotha]

As a note, the drives that are usually in external enclosures are pretty much bottom of the barrel.  You might not get ANY usable warranty on them (they're usually "OEM" drives, so the warranty would be from the external unit maker who will probably not honor it if you tear the drive out of the enclosure), and they're usually some of the slowest models available.  They do store data, though, so if you don't care about warranty or speed, they can be a good deal.

When win 95 came out they were selling 4MB sticks at $100 each.  Before that they were a heck of a lot more.  I had a 486 DLC and simms were $100 a mb.  My point was that SSDs given the right exposure will be embraced by the public as a viable storage facility, while HDD stocks are at these ludicrous prices, which will reduce the stranglehold on the data storage market that magnetic drives have.  Yes I had a full height 2gb drive too which had to be replaced several times due to failure.  Yes memories....

I see what you're saying.  RAM was already getting cheaper fairly quickly, but yes, I do recall that the prices took a substantial drop near when Win95 came out.  There was a similar phenomenon when Win2k came out and also WinXP.

What I'm trying to say though is that, while users with modest (which is probably typical) storage needs can and probably will go SSD soon - if they haven't already -  since they don't need the additional capacity offered by revolving metal and can then enjoy the benfits of SSD, users who have large data storage needs will probably stick with revolving metal for some time.  This isn't to say they won't ALSO have an SSD, but I think it will be quite some time (if ever) before SSDs as we currently know them will overtake revolving metal and other magnetic storage means in terms of bytes per dollar.  Advances are still being made in the magnetic arena, and there are currently some problems preventing huge density gains in Flash technology (but I'm sure they'll be eventually resolved, as these things usually are when it comes to semiconductors).

What may happen is that these users with "large" storage needs may not see their needs grow at the same rate as the storage technology does, so they may slide along the curve until SSD or other non-magnetic means make sense for them i.e. their previously "large" needs will become technologically "modest".  However, I think users who are continually pushing the envelope in terms of volume data to store and who don't have large performance concerns (which, incidentally, describes a "cloud storage" provider pretty well) will stick with revolving magnetic metal for quite some time.  Current SSD technology has almost two orders of magnitude to make up to match revolving metal HDD technology in terms of bytes/dollar, and like I mentioned, HDDs are not stagnant.

Economy of scale in the SSD market will surely help, but it's going to be several years (again, if ever - several years is more than long enough for major technological advances to totally obsolete a storage mechanism so we could have e.g. holographic optical memory by then) before Flash SSD technology will be able to completely replace revolving metal hard drives in nearly all applications.

The biggest thing happening now is simply that most users don't need to store 3TB+ of data.  If you've only got 120GB of data, there's little reason to NOT buy an SSD at this point because they don't even make hard drives that small anymore, but if you've got 100TB, there's little reason not to put it on revolving metal hard drives unless you REALLY need absurdly fast access to it.  Consider that 100TB is a relatively modest amount of storage for an enterprise in some market segments.

[mytymaus007]

Drives are going back down in price. I just watch Slickdeals. Yesterday I bought a 2tb external 7200 drive with usb 3.0 for $75 at staples. Sure, it is a dealhunt, but it seems to be comparable to prices before the spike hit.

http://slickdeals.net/f/5151856-Seagate-Expansion-2TB-USB-3-0-Black-Desktop-Hard-Drive-78-74-AC-Staples

Good Looking but missed it to late! ended 8/28/12 but yes that was a good deal

I dont see $104 at Amazon i see $118 heres the link if your getting $104 point me in the right direction

http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Expansion-Desktop-External-STBV2000100/dp/B00834SJS0/ref=sr_1_1?t=slickdeals&tag=slickdeals&s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1346876954&sr=1-1&keywords=seagate+expansion+2tb
That's what it says, but there are numbers that still activate. Or at least I managed to find a number that worked, just now. The only issue is that Amazon is no longer pricing them at $99, so you can't get a further discount. Still, $104 ain't bad. I don't have any USB 3 devices, so will in the mean time de-case it and use it in my main PC.

[Peja]

Newegg is having a "sale" on Seagate HDDs right now.  I know it isn't a screaming deal like we have seen in the past but its $110 for 2tb and free shipping or $150 and $7.28 shipping on 3tb. 

EDIT:  the above pricing is before the 15% off.  3TB is now down to $134.77 including shipping and the 2TB is $93.49.  Use promo code: EMCNANC33


Just got the newsletter in the inbox this morning.  http://promotions.newegg.com/NEemail/Sep-0-2012/coupon07/index-landing.html?nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL090712&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL090712-_-EMC-090712-Index-_-E0D-_-HDD#HDD


Peja

[wbassett]

I'm skipping the 3TB drives and concentrating on filling the last remaining empty bays in my server with 2TB drives.  I'll stay there (40TB total) until the 4TB drives come out and their price comes down as well as the kinks worked out so I know they are reliable and then I'll start upgrading my 2TB drives to 4TB drives.  I did the same with the 1.5TB drives-  I got a couple and then thought why?  Just wait on the 2TB drives, which I did.

Hopefully they will come back down to where they were, but I doubt it.  It's kinda like gas prices, now that they are up from last year and people are still buying them, they pretty much will stay higher than before the flood.  Of course when the 4TB and larger drives are here and at a good price, then the 2TB drives will drop, but only because they will be on their way out.  By then it will be hard to even find a 1TB or smaller drive.  Just think how insane it sounds saying that!  I remember paying $200 for a 20MB drive for my Amiga 1000!

[ark_ader]

Seagate drives run very hot, avoid them like the plague.

Buy a Western Digital instead.  Your PC will love you for it.