Using Smash TV cabinet for a MAME system

[boerbiet]

Good day,

My vacation period is coming up and I decided I wanted to make myself an arcade cabinet. I've been drawing panels and have been thinking about how to construct it all, but then I came across a working Smash TV cabinet being sold for cheap (very rare to find something like that in my country as arcade machines are hard to find over here).

Up until now the idea was to construct my own control panel, wire two joysticks and six action buttons per stick to an I-PAC and connect this to a PC. Add a computer screen or television and voila.

However, if I were to purchase the Smash TV cabinet, I'd have a genuine arcade monitor and speakers. The system apparently runs on a JAMMA board and I could add a J-PAC and connect the controls, display and speakers via the J-PAC to the PC. This seems like an ideal situation. But now for the 'however' which made me join the forums and write this post.

When reading through the manual I saw the board supports four buttons per player. Can anyone confirm that a six button setup is not possible when using the Smash TV board with a J-PAC? I do realise I need to modify the control panel since it has four joysticks and two buttons on it now.

If the six button setup cannot be realised this way, I will have to go back to the I-PAC method of wiring the controls. However, can I still use the original display and speakers? Should I use an I-PAC for the controls and a J-PAC for the video and audio, or just an I-PAC and use some other method of connection video and audio?

So the gist of it all: Which connection methods should I use for controls, video and audio? Any help is appreciated.

Oh, and a side note, I wish to add a trackball too and eventually perhaps some guns. No idea of that matters for the above question, but I thought I'd mention it.

[MaxVolume]

I'm confused... if you're MAMEing the cabinet, wouldn't you be removing the SMASH T.V. board?

[CheffoJeffo]

The JPac can handle 8 buttons per player -- connections for buttons 4-8 connect directly to the JPac just like they would on the IPac.

Terrible thing to kill a working SmashTV.

 

[MaxVolume]

The JPac can handle 8 buttons per player -- connections for buttons 4-8 connect directly to the JPac just like they would on the IPac.

Terrible thing to kill a working SmashTV.

 

I agree, but the "board" he was referring to wasn't the J-Pac, it was the SMASH T.V. board, since the "manual" he referred to was the SMASH T.V. Operations Manual.

Again, the limitations of the original JAMMA board are irrelevant if you're replacing it with a PC.

[CheffoJeffo]

Yes, the board would come out (to the OP: The JPac and your computer replace the SmashTV board), but the four existing buttons would be supported by the JPac through the JAMMA harness.

Any more buttons would have to be installed and then wired directly to the screw terminals on the JPac.



EDIT:Note that when I talk about the existing four buttons, on SmashTV they are wired to switches on the second joystick. You will have to remove the joystick and install buttons, then simply connect the existing wires to the buttons.

[boerbiet]

I was under the assumption I had to connect the JAMMA board to the JPAC, but I missed out on a page on the information page and it's obvious to me now. The JPAC does seem to suit my needs. I still have to check out the Smash TV cabinet. The seller says video and audio are still working, but the price is quite low so I suspect there will be some flaws. However, the costs are still way lower than what I would need to spend on materials when building a full cabinet. The wood alone costs more than the price the seller listed (although the list price is for an opening bid).

I would have to replace the controls though. I'd like to keep the cabinet as authentic as possible, but "destroying" the control part is inevitable. The cabinet doesn't seem to be rare though, so I don't feel any remorse (yet) . Another reason to try an existing cabinet is the lacking of tools and woodcutting skills on my part; I'd need to ask a lot of help. I also don't have a garage or something to work in.

Anyway, I attached a picture of the cabinet for fun. I'll be checking it out this saturday. If for any reason I cannot use it, I guess I'll have to bother some friends who have tools and garages

[MaxVolume]

Nice... I assume you're keeping it a 2-player machine, right?  Even though it might be tempting to just add buttons and call it a 4-player panel, it wasn't really designed to be.  The hole for the second joystick will make a great anchor point for buttons, though.

[boerbiet]

Nice... I assume you're keeping it a 2-player machine, right?  Even though it might be tempting to just add buttons and call it a 4-player panel, it wasn't really designed to be.  The hole for the second joystick will make a great anchor point for buttons, though.

A 2-player machine is the idea, yea, with 6 buttons for each player. Eventually I want to add guns too and I'm thinking of adding a trackball and / or spinner for arkanoid and such. Haven't made up my mind about those though.

[dgame]

Nice cabinet. I have one of those. I tried to MAME it but the Arcade Gods wouldn't let me do it. Every time I went to MAME it I ended up playing the game all night. So mine is still a dedicated SMASH TV.  Great game.

My advice would be to build a completely new control panel and leave the original guts intact so you can switch it back.

[Well Fed Games]

I'm reworking a Smash TV right now for a project (actually stripping paint after a major painting fail on my part), really is a great cabinet- well built, from real wood, and lots of real estate.

[paigeoliver]

If you are maming then the only thing that needs to work right is the screen.

I would normally get on my soapbox about not ripping up dedicated games, but if you aren't in America then it is the arcade history of your country you are destroying, not mine. 

[Nephasth]

...but if you aren't in America then it is the arcade history of your country you are destroying, not mine. 

Oh boy. It's not "yours", Mr. There's A Million Pole Positions Waiting To Be MAMEd. Guess it depends on what side of the bed you wake up from...

[MaxVolume]

A 2-player machine is the idea, yea, with 6 buttons for each player. Eventually I want to add guns too and I'm thinking of adding a trackball and / or spinner for arkanoid and such. Haven't made up my mind about those though.

If you can find the space for them, go for it.  A trackball can serve the same function as a spinner, but if it's too small it might not have sufficient "travel" for comfortable and precise control.  Even something like a MiniPAC will let you use both, so have at it.

[Mat]

My advice would be to build a completely new control panel and leave the original guts intact so you can switch it back.

Exactly.  If you absolutely have to use this cab, remove the old control panel and put it in your closet.  Build a new one that's the same shape.  Mount it to the cabinet using the factory hardware.  Try not to drill any new holes or make any new cuts to the cab in the process.

[Well Fed Games]

My advice would be to build a completely new control panel and leave the original guts intact so you can switch it back.

Exactly.  If you absolutely have to use this cab, remove the old control panel and put it in your closet.  Build a new one that's the same shape.  Mount it to the cabinet using the factory hardware.  Try not to drill any new holes or make any new cuts to the cab in the process.

This is true, as you already will have a kick ass twin stick shooter control panel. The good news is the Smash TV panel (if it is the same as mine) is one flat peice of wood/metal... easy to duplicate with a router.... hmm that gives me ideas...

[paigeoliver]

General rules have exceptions. The "don't rip up dedicated cabinets" rule has a two main ones I can think of.

Rule 1. Pole Position.

This is the most unreliable widely released game ever made. It took 8 sets of Pole Position boards to piece together one solid reliable set for my Pole Position cockpit. I have a second Pole Position in my shed. Just turned down a bulk buy of 5 more of them for $200 total. There just aren't enough working boards to go around and oftentimes warehouse pull and bulk buy poles won't have any boards in them as they already got pulled years ago.

Rule 2. Vector games missing the monitor.

There aren't any spare vector monitors out there. Not sitting on warehouse shelves, not anywhere. 90 percent of the time when a color vector monitor comes up for sale the seller also happens to be selling the rest of the Space Duel he pulled it out of (except for the cabinet, it seems like they just burn those). If it is a black and white one then the seller usually seems to have the rest of a Battlezone or Star Castle available.

...but if you aren't in America then it is the arcade history of your country you are destroying, not mine. 

Oh boy. It's not "yours", Mr. There's A Million Pole Positions Waiting To Be MAMEd. Guess it depends on what side of the bed you wake up from...

[boerbiet]

My advice would be to build a completely new control panel and leave the original guts intact so you can switch it back.

Exactly.  If you absolutely have to use this cab, remove the old control panel and put it in your closet.  Build a new one that's the same shape.  Mount it to the cabinet using the factory hardware.  Try not to drill any new holes or make any new cuts to the cab in the process.

This is true, as you already will have a kick ass twin stick shooter control panel. The good news is the Smash TV panel (if it is the same as mine) is one flat peice of wood/metal... easy to duplicate with a router.... hmm that gives me ideas...

This is what I wanted to hear. I have yet to see the cabinet but was hoping for an easy way to take off the current control panel and place a new, custom one myself, storing the original in some closet.

But that raises a new question: will only the JPAC suffice or must I combine it with an IPAC? If I read correctly, the JPAC offers 5 connections for custom buttons and 3 for the built-in ones (per player). Can I also connect 8 custom buttons, or is this where an IPAC would come in, leaving the JPAC there for the video and audio to be connected to?

I also noticed the cabinet has only one speaker. I'll have to hear how it sounds, but I may add a second one / replace the single speaker with two new ones.

Thanks for all replies thus far, some were quite helpful

[Well Fed Games]

I also noticed the cabinet has only one speaker. I'll have to hear how it sounds, but I may add a second one / replace the single speaker with two new ones.

If it is like mine it will have two behind the Williams logo/speaker grill, one larger and one smaller, possibly a full-range and a tweeter, I believe. Would be easy to replace with your own, the speaker area is very modify-able.

[CheffoJeffo]

That raises a couple of good points:

1) JAMMA is mono (which may or may not bother you)
2) JAMMA includes amplified sound, so you will have to amplify the output from your soundcard (I use a cheap amplifier kit for this)

[MaxVolume]

Damn... just wrote a long post about this and lost it. 

The gist of it was that this isn't our cabinet, nor is any dedicated cab, working or not, that someone wants to MAME.  Sure, it sucks when they just get bored with it later and you see Franken-cabs for sale on Craigslist that you know will just go to the dump or be a giant headache for anyone who is brave/foolish enough to think they can still be restored, but unless someone is prepared to not only step up and buy the cab but also provide an alternative that suits the needs of the builder as well or better than the intended victim, then we should just all shut up about it.

 

[HaRuMaN]

[CheffoJeffo]

Damn... just wrote a long post about this and lost it. 

The gist of it was that this isn't our cabinet, nor is any dedicated cab, working or not, that someone wants to MAME.  Sure, it sucks when they just get bored with it later and you see Franken-cabs for sale on Craigslist that you know will just go to the dump or be a giant headache for anyone who is brave/foolish enough to think they can still be restored, but unless someone is prepared to not only step up and buy the cab but also provide an alternative that suits the needs of the builder as well or better than the intended victim, then we should just all shut up about it.

 

WTF are you on about ?

Nobody has beaten him up about his choice to MAME a perfectly good working cabinet. You should have seen what happened to the last guy who wanted to MAME a nice Smash TV -- now he got a beating. 

Please do be mindful that we don't destroy what we're trying to re-create.  Many classic arcade machines are rare and worth a heck of a lot more intact than altered.  Ideal candidates for this type of project are machines that have already been abused by previous owners - artwork destroyed, poorly converted, etc...  If you have a classic cabinet in good shape, you can probably sell it to a collector and get a trashed but usable cabinet in the bargain.

For somebody who is all too happy to give people his opinion, you certainly aren't particularly tolerant of the opinions of others. 

FWIW, I agree with Paige on his exceptions -- there are WAY, WAY more PP cabs than boardsets and more vectors cabs than vector monitors.

[boerbiet]

The part where you sell a complete and original cabinet to a collector to get a "junk" one in return may roll in the US, but not over here. We have no arcade culture and I know plenty of people who have never even seen a video arcade cabinet. Heck, this thing has been on the country's most popular auction site for a week and only 90 people have clicked on it (10 being myself probably), and the initial bidding price hasn't even been offered yet.

Besides, I do not intend on destroying anything. I'll keep the original controls intact and if I would want to add two custom speakers with an additional speaker hole, I'd replace the current wooden board with the single hole so I'd still have the original. If I were to install some guns I'd have to think about how to put in the receiver but that's somewhere in the future anyway.

[CheffoJeffo]

We have no arcade culture and I know plenty of people who have never even seen a video arcade cabinet.

Actually, your countrymen (including prolific BYOACer Level42) are amongst the most vocal of objectors, mostly because of the rarity of cabinets over there.

In any event, it is your cabinet and I think it gives you plenty of options for MAME ... just don't expect everybody to like your decision.

[boerbiet]

  I wonder why people have a problem in general with this. The cabinet can be restored to its original state if I ever were to resell it, so nothing lost there. Is it just the mere mentioning of someone not using an original cabinet for its original purpose, to play this single game it came with, a reason for people to get ticked off? Because that'd be something I could never hope to understand.

[CheffoJeffo]

For some, yes.

FWIW, I am not ticked off with you at all.

I was ticked off with Max for his rant about people who do hate to see classics MAMEd -- their opinions are every bit as valid as yours and his.

 

[TopJimmyCooks]

Boer:
You're in good shape.  For whatever reason, there's a ton of Robotron/Smash TV love on this board and Klov.  So you're dealing with a desirable game, which gets peoples blood pressure up a little. 

You've chosen what I think is the best course for this situation - Make new parts to suit your needs, while keeping the original CP/speaker panel for possible future restoration.  Best of both worlds. 

I would ask the gents of the forum to redirect their energy towards replying to the technical questions here.  I'm no Jpac expert or I would chime in.  I will say that interfacing with the existing jamma harness is a solid move towards restorability and originality if it was originally a jamma cab.  Wrap the original board in tin foil or an antistatic bag and it should keep for a long time. 

[boerbiet]

Thanks, Jimmy

I added up the number of buttons I want to use and came to the conclusion I will need a JPAC + IPAC to get the desired amount working as well as utilise the cabinet parts. I'll see how large the original board is and make sure to keep it in a safe place

[Vigo]

Hi boerbiet,

I wanted to weigh in on this one. First Congrats on your Smash TV. I've always really liked the cab and the game.

I have a cabinet called Trog. When I bought it, it was a Street Fighter II and painted black. My intention was to Mame it, but when I removed the paint to see what was intact, I found that there was a beautiful cab underneath. Anyway, long story short is that I still decided to Mame it but keep everything intact, and even convert it back into a working Trog so I could switch between playing Trog and my mame machine.

Now the nice thing about a cabinet like Trog or your smash TV (They have a similar base) is that it has a lot of space inside the cabinet is large enough to store a spare control panel right inside the body. I just made a bungee strap to keep it from flopping all over. I made a setup where I could just swap out the JAMMA plug and control panel at any given time to choose between MAME and dedicated Trog.

It turned out I loved the setup. Over the years, I grew more and more fond of Trog as a machine. Friends often opted to want to play Trog over all the MAME games I had. My interest of having a Mame machine had expanded into an interest in arcade machines. I De-Mamed Trog and have been working slowly restoring it.

I'm only pointing this out because I think it would be smart to think over the possibility of keeping Smash TV working in dedicated form. You of course are free to follow your own path on this, but I wanted to briefly go over my method to keep both the Dedicated game alive and kicking, as well as have fully working MAME.

1) I bought an IPAC and an ArcadeVGA video card. from ultimarc.
2) I built a new control panel out of wood that fit in place of the main control panel.
3) Wired only the monitor controls to a JAMMA fingerboard. It was like 4 wires.
4) Connected my new Mame control Panel controls to the Ipac.

So to play Trog, here is what I did:
Plugged the JAMMA Harness into the real Trog PCB
Clamped on the Trog Control Panel I had stashed inside the Cabinet.
Turned it on like a regular Arcade cabinet and Played.

To swap it back into Mame, I just did this:
Unplug the JAMMA Harness from the Trog PCB and plugged it into the JAMMA fingerboard I had mounted inside the cabinet.
Unclamp the original Control Panel and pop in my Mame Control Panel.
Turned on the computer and the cabinet power.

Now you may notice I failed to mention sound. I did not wire the sound up though the JAMMA fingerboard, but I probably could if I bought an amp for the arcade speaker. What I did personally was wired the audio out to to computer speakers I had mounted on the back wall. Later, when I had more space, I just wired the audio out to my music system for glorious surround sound arcade gaming.

Anyway, I am hoping that gives you an option to think over. I personally thought it was an easy solution and it saved my cab. Since this sounds like it will be a 2 player Mame cab, I doubt you really want a Smash TV Mame cab that can't play 2 player smash TV. (Since you would need 4 joysticks)

Good luck with your project! 

[boerbiet]

Hi Vigo,

Thanks a lot for your post. I was wondering if skipping JPAC alltogether was an option, and apparently it is. I'll look into this fingerboard thing! If it's something you have to build yourself, a friend of mine is quite capable in that division so I'll call for help from him

[Troyus]

Thanks, Jimmy

I added up the number of buttons I want to use and came to the conclusion I will need a JPAC + IPAC to get the desired amount working as well as utilise the cabinet parts. I'll see how large the original board is and make sure to keep it in a safe place

o you realize the cab has no buttons? Smash tv uses two joysticks for each player. The 4 'buttons' are left, right, up, down on the fire joystick. You will have to drill holes and damage the CP to install typical arcade buttons.
http://www.google.com.au/imgres?q=smash+tv+CP&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1366&bih=604&tbm=isch&tbnid=C5Y-T75bxFxO3M:&imgrefurl=http://www.gamesdbase.com/game.aspx%3Fmame%3Dsmashtv&docid=PyWQzCnqIi2lLM&imgurl=http://www.gamesdbase.com/Media/SYSTEM/Arcade/CP/big/Smash_T.V._-_1990_-_Williams,_Inc..jpg&w=1440&h=599&ei=sbM3UI7TJO-gmQW16oDwCw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=738&vpy=176&dur=752&hovh=69&hovw=165&tx=162&ty=60&sig=104003016691487564866&page=1&tbnh=69&tbnw=165&start=0&ndsp=21&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:0,i:83

[Well Fed Games]

I think he means if he made a replacement CP- as I mentioned previously, copying a Smash TV CP could easily be done in a half hour- just a flat peice of wood, with metal on top, the metal being unnecessary on a home use cabinet. Route with the original as a template, and there you go.

  Everybody be cool.

Thanks, Jimmy

I added up the number of buttons I want to use and came to the conclusion I will need a JPAC + IPAC to get the desired amount working as well as utilise the cabinet parts. I'll see how large the original board is and make sure to keep it in a safe place

o you realize the cab has no buttons? Smash tv uses two joysticks for each player. The 4 'buttons' are left, right, up, down on the fire joystick. You will have to drill holes and damage the CP to install typical arcade buttons.
http://www.google.com.au/imgres?q=smash+tv+CP&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1366&bih=604&tbm=isch&tbnid=C5Y-T75bxFxO3M:&imgrefurl=http://www.gamesdbase.com/game.aspx%3Fmame%3Dsmashtv&docid=PyWQzCnqIi2lLM&imgurl=http://www.gamesdbase.com/Media/SYSTEM/Arcade/CP/big/Smash_T.V._-_1990_-_Williams,_Inc..jpg&w=1440&h=599&ei=sbM3UI7TJO-gmQW16oDwCw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=738&vpy=176&dur=752&hovh=69&hovw=165&tx=162&ty=60&sig=104003016691487564866&page=1&tbnh=69&tbnw=165&start=0&ndsp=21&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:0,i:83

[MaxVolume]

For some, yes.

FWIW, I am not ticked off with you at all.

I was ticked off with Max for his rant about people who do hate to see classics MAMEd -- their opinions are every bit as valid as yours and his.

 

Well obviously mine's the only one that's NOT valid, because no matter what I post, people keep telling me to shut up.

Sure, nobody has threatened to come to his house and kick his ass, but there have been comments along the lines of "do this, that and the other thing to make sure you can put it back as it was" and I say bollocks... let him "ruin" it however he pleases.

Simple as that, so go f k yourself.

[CheffoJeffo]

Simple as that, so go f k yourself.