cab: frame or not?

[papaschtroumpf]

I'm satrting research on building my own cabinet and some designs seem to have a frame (out of 2x4) onto which to attach the side and frint panels, whereas some other don't use a frame, the sides and front and back are what give the structure rigidity (with possibly a few angle brackets or sone 1x1 or 2x2 glued in the corners for re-inforcement).
What's the "best" way to go about it?

[hyiu]

I'd say... there's no best way...

depends on what you prefer....

both ways will be strong enough.....
but when you're putting the cab together.. make sure you don't just use screws.... but use GLUE also....
that will make the cab MUCH stronger....

[Jakobud]

I did a full 2x4 internal frame and it made my cabinet super strong....but super heavy too.  But if you look around at examples there are tons of people who don't use any frame.  I'd be scared too....but look at that SlikStik Retroblast video review.  That thing has no frame and appears sturdy.  And it goes together like something from Ikea

[pathdoc2]

I've built 8 cabs with no frame but I do use 2x2's at critical joints so in the end it kind of looks like a frame.  2x2's are actually 1 1/2x1 1/2 inch.  You can use 2 inch sheet rock screws and secure all of you joints internally so the no screw holes are evident from the outside of the cab.  I hope this helps.  Good luck.

[Dartful Dodger]

How far apart do you place the screws?
What thickness should the board be, if I'm not using a frame?

[paigeoliver]

Real cabinets don't have frames.

[hyiu]

I don't think you need too many screws... but you'll need to GLUE it tight.... that is much more important than screwing....

you could use 3/4 in (or 5/8 in) MDF or plywood....

just stay away from particle board and you'll be fine....

[soslo]

Is the glue really more important than screws? Why? Not arguing here...just in need of some edumacation.

[Ghoul]

Is the glue really more important than screws? Why? Not arguing here...just in need of some edumacation.

Glue is frickin strong. In diy speaker projects you often screw the cabinet together while the glue sets and then remove the screws because you just don't need them once that glue sets.

[jcoleman]

In diy speaker projects you often screw the cabinet together while the glue sets and then remove the screws because you just don't need them once that glue sets.

I know this is off-topic, but when you remove the screws in a speaker cabinet you have an extra resonating chamber.  Or a bigger enclosure if the hole is exposed inside the cabinet.  Unless you fill it, that is.

John, who couldn't resist a little audiophile conversation on the DIY arcade boards

[hyiu]

GLUE is definitely MORE important than screws...

screws is like temporary hold it together....
and for example... if you screw 2 pieces of wood together... well... you use... 3-4 screws... right ??... you're not going to screw 20 screws and ruin the wood..... (also... too many holes all oevr the place will make the wood weaker....)

but if you spread glue on both sides, and glue them together... you have support ALL OVER the attached area...

but 1 thing... don't use the cheapy white elmer's glue....
use something stronger....

most times, I use contact cement.... (cos I bought a can when I was doing some laminate before....)

I donno exactly which kind of glue is the best... but I remember someone ementioned it before in some other thread here....

hope it helps....

[RandyT]

but 1 thing... don't use the cheapy white elmer's glue....
use something stronger....

most times, I use contact cement.... (cos I bought a can when I was doing some laminate before....)

Careful there.  Contact cement is pretty strong stuff, but not necessarily better for wood.  The best glue for wood is, you guessed it, wood glue .

Wood glue is specially formulated to soak into the wood fibers and will create a bond between the two pieces (when properly clamped at dry time) that will be stronger than the wood itself.

There's a real easy way to see this for yourself....grab a couple of scraps, then glue and clamp them together for about a half hour.  Then take whatever measures that might be necessary to separate them (hammer, etc).  Most of the time, the seam will remain and the wood surrounding it will have broken away.

RandyT

[hyiu]

wood glue.... haaa haa haa... stupid me.... never thought of that....

anyway.... since I have a good size can on contact cement lying around.... (and I have used it before between wood and laminate...)

I figure although it might not be the best stuff to use... but its right here and free and should be strong enough....
that is good enough for me for now....

(if anyone knows of any pblm in the long run... plz let me know...)

otherwise, I'll save up on 2 light guns for XP and analog+ !!!! haa haaa haaa haaa.....

ps: when playing light gun games... I like to use 2 guns.... all by myself... haa haaa haa... like those hero movies... hold each gun in each hand... and shoot like a maniac.... (shooting all moving / non-moving items on screen....) I like that !!!!  

used to borrow my friend's virtual cop and shoot with 2 guns... LOTS of fun !!!.... haaa haaa haa haaa....

sorry.... sort of carried away.....  

[Wade]

Glue only attaches parts at the surface, this isn't enough to make a strong cabinet particularly with something like MDF that can be "peeled" quite easily.  A strong cabinet needs glue for the surface, plus screws or staples to penetrate more deeply.  A speaker box isn't exposed to the same loads as a game cabinet with a 90 lb monitor hanging in it.

It's arguable which is more important, screws vs glue, personally I'd go with screws and skip the glue if I could do only one, as I'm absolutely sure the end result would be stronger using typical build styles I see here and on other arcade cabs.  But the buttom line is BOTH should be used.

Wade

[RedSquirrel]

ive fully completed one side of my cab, but i didnt use glue. I cant use glue now either because its too late (ie the screws are in, with wood filler over the top of 'em). Anyway it feels very sturdy so it should be okay and plus i used a bunch more screws at the last min mainly on monitor shelf so should be fine. I however, will try and use the glue on the rest of the frame.

Plus i used L brackets on most of the frame as well, just incase. One part of the cab (the top part by the marquee) i didnt use screws i just used the L brackets. I dont know why i did this, but it should be fine.

I would use a frame and in stead of skrews I would use carriage bolts.  I have had to disassemble mine in the past.  So I would not use glue.  Its always nice to have the option to disassemble the thing.

[vitaflo]

I'm satrting research on building my own cabinet and some designs seem to have a frame (out of 2x4) onto which to attach the side and frint panels, whereas some other don't use a frame, the sides and front and back are what give the structure rigidity (with possibly a few angle brackets or sone 1x1 or 2x2 glued in the corners for re-inforcement).
What's the "best" way to go about it?

Depends what you want.  I have no internal frame in my cab, I just use screws and everything is glued w/ wood glue.  Once you use wood glue on everything, that thing is not coming apart.  Wood glue is STRONG.

[RedSquirrel]

[quote author=

[Brax]

since I have a good size can on contact cement lying around.... I figure although it might not be the best stuff to use... but its right here and free and should be strong enough....
that is good enough for me for now....

(if anyone knows of any pblm in the long run... plz let me know...)

The problem is: Contact cement is designed to coat both sides of the wood and then wait for it to dry BEFORE you attach the pieces together. This would take forever if you have to wait for every single joint to dry before you even put them together. Even if you do take all that time to do it properly it's no where near as strong as wood glue. Pop a screwdriver under a corner of that laminate you glued down.... It'll peel up without much trouble. Now try that with two pieces of wood glued together with wood glue. You'll bust the screwdriver before you ever peel those puppies apart.

My opinion: Use wood glue or nothing. You're not getting much benefit from contact cement; It's not worth the time and trouble... or solvent headaches for that matter. Isn't the whole point of this excercise to build something authentic? Why would you cut corners on the most substantial component? That's NEVER made sense to me.

[Hammerbot]

A couple rules of thumb that I use:
With MDF use yellow wood glue and biscuits. If you put glue only on the smooth surface of the MDF it will not be nearly as strong as if on the ends. (has to do with the way MDF is made) The biscuits bond to the inner layers of that "cake mix" product.

With Plywood the same goes, but the plywood is much stronger in that direction.

Other glues could include PVa (like Gorilla glue) which is much more water resistant (not proof) but more expensive.

With contact cement you are asking for trouble. So many more glues that are much easier to work with and so much stronger.

Screws hold things together for a while but I agree that glue iw what holds for the long term.

Or you could whittle it out of a big ass tree trunk and not woryy about the glue or screws or ever completing anything...

[hyiu]

since I have a good size can on contact cement lying around.... I figure although it might not be the best stuff to use... but its right here and free and should be strong enough....
that is good enough for me for now....

(if anyone knows of any pblm in the long run... plz let me know...)

The problem is: Contact cement is designed to coat both sides of the wood and then wait for it to dry BEFORE you attach the pieces together. This would take forever if you have to wait for every single joint to dry before you even put them together. Even if you do take all that time to do it properly it's no where near as strong as wood glue. Pop a screwdriver under a corner of that laminate you glued down.... It'll peel up without much trouble. Now try that with two pieces of wood glued together with wood glue. You'll bust the screwdriver before you ever peel those puppies apart.

My opinion: Use wood glue or nothing. You're not getting much benefit from contact cement; It's not worth the time and trouble... or solvent headaches for that matter. Isn't the whole point of this excercise to build something authentic? Why would you cut corners on the most substantial component? That's NEVER made sense to me.

point taken.... I'm going to HD to get some wood glue......