First arcade control panel

[Terr1]

Hello fellow arcade builders..

A few weeks ago I stumbled upon Virtual Pinball and MAME arcades.

I decided to start building a MAME cabinet (2 player up right). I have ZERO experience in this, and started reading up on different projects.

I want to start building a prototype wood control panel, to get a little experience doing this first, all the computer and software stuff I know how to do.

I wanted to run my buy list past this forum before I ordered, to make sure I didnt buy wrong parts. I decided to buy from Ultramarc (UK), a little more expensive maybe but they got what I want

Buy List:
1x Daisy-Chain harness
20x Goldleaf pushbuttons (6 per player? and some more to control different things like power and what not).
1x 1 Player button
1x 2 Player button
1x I-PAC 2 USB
2x Joystick mounting kits (for the final panal, to avoid top screws).
2x UltraStick 360 with USB - Oval type
 - 2x Extra Ball top (Round)
 - 2x Long handle Shaft for ball style
 - 2x Long handle shaft for oval style
 - 2x Ultrastick 360 hard springs
 - 2x Ultrastick button / encoder harness
 - 2x Ultrastick Front-Mounted Restrictor Kit (4way / 8 way?)
- 1x Wiring Kit

Do these parts fit okay? The Ultrastick 360 with all optional kits are expensive, but since I dont know what type I want, I figured I might as well buy ball + oval style.

Or do you recommend something different? I want good quality items.

[Nephasth]

If you're getting 2 U360s, you don't really need an I-PAC2. Each U360 can handle 8 button inputs.

[Terr1]

Yeah I thought so.

Each Ultrastick can manage 8 buttons. 6 Player buttons, 1 Start Player button and 1 extra?

I dont need more buttons or? Exit, Credits and stuff like that? (I have no idea thats why I ordered the IPAC 2, to be sure).

I was thinking of buying I-PAC 2, if it turned out I wanted more buttons, ie. later coin door or something similar. But if its a waste of money I might as well skip it..

Is the U360 overkill or?

[PL1]

Welcome aboard, Terr1.

One of the interesting ways to stir up heated comments and retorts around here is to ask "Which joystick is best?" or "How many admin buttons should I have?"

The short answer to both depends on what YOU like and what YOU want.

If you ask what kind of motor vehicle is best, a farmer will swear by his pickup truck, the soccer mom will say SUV, and the businessman will claim a 4-door sedan.  Each of them is right for what they need to do.

On joysticks, the question is what games do you want to play?  Classics like DK and Pac-Man that need a 4-way stick, fighters that need quick twitch response, etc.

On admin buttons, some people prefer shifted functions with directions on the monitor bezel, some prefer dedicated buttons.  Here are the ones I use for my portable/modular build.  You probably won't want or need the mouse buttons and curious kids can make the menu (tab) button on your final panel a real pain, but it can come in very handy on a test panel.



Also consider that you probably won't find everything you want from just one company unless you make some big compromises.  Most people end up buying from at least two vendors to get what they want.  Ultimarc, Groovy Game Gear, and Paradise Arcade Shop are the most commonly used vendors, but I've made purchases from more than 7 sources for just one particular build.

If you like the U360s and also want a less expensive keyboard-type encoder for pinball/admin functions, you should look at Degenatron's AVR encoder. (Resource page here.)

One of the things that makes it a good fit for your project is the pinball mode designed to work with Visual Pinball(VP) and Future Pinball. (FP)  This can save quite a bit of trouble with reconfiguring emulators and adding joy2key or xpadder software. (They take joystick button presses and map them to keyboard-type keypresses.)

Here are some starting placement suggestions for flipper buttons. 



If you run short on inputs for launcher and flippers, let me know.  There are several ways to work around it like combining upper flippers and Magnasaves (4 inputs) into 2 buttons.

From what I hear, those Goldleaf buttons will work well for flippers.  Just ordered some from Divemaster for an upcoming pin controller build.


Scott

[shponglefan]

PL1 is right; ask different people, get different answers.  Building a prototype controller is definitely the way to go.  Chances are your first design isn't going to be 100% ideal, so you can then learn from that.

FWIW, what I found worked for me is the following:

7 action buttons per player in the Neo-Geo/Capcom hybrid layout.  Technically it's 6 buttons with a duplicate button wired up (you can see many examples on the forum).
1 coin and 1 start button per player as well.

For admin buttons, I used pause, enter, esc and tab.  I found I liked having admin buttons readily accessible.  Only thing is to make sure the Esc button isn't in a place that will be hit accidently.

[mamenewb100]

One thing you should consider is how the control buttons are placed to comfortably fit your fingers. I regret getting 6 buttons that are flat across because my middle finger is considerably longer than my pointer and pinky that I use for a row of buttons. If I had to do it over again I would of had the middle button a little higher than the other two. Some people still prefer an even row of six buttons but that's up to you.

[PL1]

Visit http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/layout.html for printable button layouts and other info.


Scott

[Terr1]

Thanks for your great responses..

Yeah I know its objective what people recommend, I guess I was looking for some inspiration and to make sure that the parts I was thinking of ordering matched.

 I will be ordering from other shops as well, thanks for your links ill bookmark them. I just need a starting point, since when you first start out, all the information you find is kinda overwhelming imo.

I think I will mostly play the classics (DK, PAC-MAN) non-fighter games.

Are there any advantages for Degenatron's AVR encoder over the IPAC - 2, for support / admin functions (MAME wise)? Other than the lower price of cause?
Degenatron's AVR encoder needs soldering and I'm not very skilled in that.. never tried anything so small, would rock if you could buy them with screw terminals attached

So I think for now Ill put up the extra cash to avoid soldering, even thou that encoder looks really nice and easy, wished I had soldering experience.

The Virtual Pinball project will come later, I will make a dedicated cabinet for this. Seems like you need better woodcutting skills and of cause more money for the large screens.

I will try to search the forum for the different play buttons layouts (ie. Neo-Geo/Capcom hybrids and the like). Thanks for the button layout link!

[PL1]

Are there any advantages for Degenatron's AVR encoder over the IPAC - 2, for support / admin functions (MAME wise)? Other than the lower price of cause?
Degenatron's AVR encoder needs soldering and I'm not very skilled in that.. never tried anything so small, would rock if you could buy them with screw terminals attached

Both encoders will work perfectly well for MAME and/or VP/FP.

The I-Pac is user programmable and has more inputs.

1.)  The single-AVR wiring for using 2 player 6 button MAME AVR extended mode (Group D, Mode 1) is a little more complicated (Extended Mode Wiring Diagram here),

2.)  or you can use 2 AVRs - 1 for player 1 (Group C, Mode 1) and another for player 2 (Group A, Mode 2),

3.)  or you can use 2 AVRs - 1 for player 1/2 (Group D, Mode 1) and another for pinball functions and admin buttons (Group A, Mode 5)-- no extended mode fancy wiring required.

For options 1 and 2 above, if you want to switch the AVR from MAME mode to Pinball and back, you'll need to have one dedicated button that Degenatron calls the Hardware Button (HWB).  Option 3 does not require switching modes to do MAME and Pinball.

As far as screw terminals go, this is how Degenatron sells them. (See here for BYOAC pricing.)  I can relay a message if you want to contact him, since you need 10-15 posts before PMs are active IIRC.


Bryan at Paradise has also added color wires with .187" crimps  that will make wiring easy for either encoder.  If you wait until Monday, he should also have .187" daisy chain grounds back in stock.

The Virtual Pinball project will come later, I will make a dedicated cabinet for this. Seems like you need better woodcutting skills and of cause more money for the large screens.

You can get VP tables in 4:3/widescreen(16:9) or fullscreen. (FP renders tables either way, based on configuration.)

The 4:3/widescreen versions of tables work just fine with a typical MAME setup.
 
 
NOTE: VP and FP use a lot more GPU than MAME and other emulators.  For high resolution tables, onboard video may not be able to keep up.  I had to upgrade from onboard video to an Evga GeForce GT 430 card to run full speed HD rendering on high-resolution tables.


Scott

[Nephasth]

Yeah I know its objective what people recommend, I guess I was looking for some inspiration and to make sure that the parts I was thinking of ordering matched.

I love my U360s. I don't use them to handle button inputs though. My button inputs (and P3 and P4 joy inputs) are handled by a Lono². Don't go overboard on the U360 add ons. Figure out what you like first so you don't waste any money on extra parts you won't use. My U360s are mounted in metal panels, so I have never used the long shafts, but I have heard some people don't really care for the throw the long shafts produce. If you go with the U360s, I would recommend top mounting them and going with the standard length shafts. I went with balltops, stiff springs, and octagonal restrictors; love them set up this way. I've only had one issue with one of my U360s. It got very stiff and difficult to use, based on Andy's advice I opened it up cleaned the pivot and lubed it with some plumber's silicone grease (did the other one while I was at it), and haven't had a problem since.

[Terr1]

Nice I have PM'ed him (apparently no restriction).
I will buy a few to play with. I will buy an IPAC 2 as well (more user friendly for the newbie).. I want to have a few different things to play with, his ones are cheap anyway.

I have 4:3 desktop versions of VP Tables atm, I havent tried FP yet. But yeah maybee I should setup a desktop version of VP/FP, I got a GT430 laying around as well I could use.
You dont have any dedicated buttons for pinball then? (other than the HWB), you just use the default button layout?

Yeah I know its objective what people recommend, I guess I was looking for some inspiration and to make sure that the parts I was thinking of ordering matched.

I love my U360s. I don't use them to handle button inputs though. My button inputs (and P3 and P4 joy inputs) are handled by a Lono². Don't go overboard on the U360 add ons. Figure out what you like first so you don't waste any money on extra parts you won't use. My U360s are mounted in metal panels, so I have never used the long shafts, but I have heard some people don't really care for the throw the long shafts produce. If you go with the U360s, I would recommend top mounting them and going with the standard length shafts. I went with balltops, stiff springs, and octagonal restrictors; love them set up this way. I've only had one issue with one of my U360s. It got very stiff and difficult to use, based on Andy's advice I opened it up cleaned the pivot and lubed it with some plumber's silicone grease (did the other one while I was at it), and haven't had a problem since.

Whats the difference between the Front Restrictor Kit and the Octagonal restrictor? The front version you can switch on the fly between 4/8 way, the octagonal allows 4 and 8 way usage while still providing some restriction "feel" ?

[Nephasth]

The front mount restrictor provideds a mechanical 4-way restriction feel, the octagonal restrictor does not provide that feel. I didn't need to have that 4-way feel, but I did want to feel the cardinals and diaganols, that's why I went with the octagonal restrictors.

[Terr1]

Yeah okay.. I guess the Front restrictor kit is overkill for me anyway.. I think ill try an octagonal restrictor.

Kinda hard to know what you want when you never tried anything hehe

[Nephasth]

Yeah okay.. I guess the Front restrictor kit is overkill for me anyway.. I think ill try an octagonal restrictor.

Kinda hard to know what you want when you never tried anything hehe

If you want the mechanical restriction, you might try Ultimarc's new ServoStik. Two (plus the required control board) are about the same price as 2 U360s without any extras (I would still put Ultimarc's stiff springs in the ServoStiks), but you would need an IPAC or other encoder to handle your inputs then.

[PL1]

his ones are cheap anyway.

If by "cheap" you mean inexpensive, then I agree.   

You dont have any dedicated buttons for pinball then? (other than the HWB), you just use the default button layout?

In my case I'm using portable/modular/standalone controllers instead of a full cab.  I have one dedicated pinball controller and will build a second one soon. (Most of the parts are already on order.)

Several people have built flipper, nudge, and launch buttons onto the side/front of their cab.  The following assumes 8 buttons - 2 flippers on each side (4 total), 3 nudge buttons (L/R/front), and 1 ball launcher.  This setup will allow you to play 99.9% of all VP/FP tables with full controls and nudging.

Several of the pinball button functions overlap keystrokes with MAME.

One single button can be wired in parallel with another button.  Press either and the encoder will output one keystroke.

Some tables use upper flippers, some use Magnasave, but none use both so you can wire both encoder inputs to one button as shown in the attached JPG.  One flipper button press will give you two keystrokes.  VP/FP will ignore the extra keystroke.

NOTE: Depending on the encoder(s) you decide to use, there may be other buttons to wire together, or if you use option 3 from my earlier post in this thread, you can direct wire these functions to the encoder you use for Pinball Mode without hooking into the player buttons.

Ball launch = Enter - Wire in parallel with the admin button

Left Flipper = Left Shift - Wire in parallel with P1 Button 4

Left Magnasave/upper flipper = Left-Ctrl and A - Wire in parallel with both P1 Button 1 and P2 Button 1 as shown in the attached JPG.

Right Magnasave/upper flipper = Right-Ctrl and Apostrophe - Wire both inputs in parallel to the encoder. (If you aren't using the inputs for anything else, you can wire both directly to the switch input, if you are using these inputs elsewhere, connect them as shown in the attached JPG.)

Forward nudge = space - Wire in parallel with Player 1, Button 3

Let me know if you have any questions.


Scott