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Author Topic: Fuzzy image on many games with CRT EmuDriver and 15kHz monitor  (Read 3092 times)

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tiobolinha

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Hi folks.

My project is developing. I'm now facing some issues with the majority of my games.

I'm running winXP with CRTEmu driver and Soft15Khz and regular MAME. My monitor is an arcade 15 Khz (CGA..?).

Everything goes fine with Windows and MAME Menu. Although the majority of games gets a Fuzzy, out of vertical and horizontal sync, image when I run. A few run fine like Tekken 2 and 3 (both 640x480 60hz).

It looks like my monitor isn't handling the resolutions. I tested my JAMMA cabinet with a KOF97 PCB and it's fine. The image is great so I'm pretty sure it's a software issue.

PLEASE HELP!
Regards.

krick

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Re: Fuzzy image on many games with CRT EmuDriver and 15kHz monitor
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2012, 12:16:56 am »
The first thing I see is that you shouldn't be using CRT_EmuDriver and Soft15KHz together.  They both do the same thing in different ways.

Try uninstalling Soft15KHz, then uninstall and re-install CRT_EmuDriver to see if that makes any difference.

Are you using GroovyMAME?  I assume the answer is yes, but I had to check.  If so, which version?

What video card are you using?

Can you look at your monitor chassis and find a model number?

If you have specific games that are giving you problems, grab a log file and attach it to your reply.  Here's the command line to generate a log...

groovymame.exe romname -v -md 4 > romname.txt

...where "groovymame.exe" is the actual name of your groovymame executable and "romname" is replaced with the name of the game ROM you want to log.
Hantarex Polo 15KHz
Sapphire Radeon HD 7750 2GB (GCN)
GroovyMAME 0.197.017h_d3d9ex
CRT Emudriver & CRT Tools 2.0 beta 13 (Crimson 16.2.1 for GCN cards)
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
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ASUS Z87M-PLUS Motherboard

tiobolinha

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Re: Fuzzy image on many games with CRT EmuDriver and 15kHz monitor
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2012, 08:18:25 am »
Thank you.

I'm using GrooveMame version 0.145u4 which is the most suitable for my rom collection.

my video card is an ATI X550. I installed CRTEmu Driver over Soft15kHz and they both show the same issues.

I can't find any monitor model number because it's an old used 29" arcade monitor that came with the JAMMA Cabinet I bought for $200. lol. I'm pretty sure it's the most generic CGA 15 Khz monitor possible.

90% of my games are showing the fuzzy image (like they are out of sync in vertical and horizontal ways). It's like mame is generating video modes my monitor can't handle.

my CRT Emu driver is set to "GENERIC".

Last thing I'd like to mention is that my video in attached to the VGA output of my video board as the DVI output shows nothing.

Thank you again... very much!

krick

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Re: Fuzzy image on many games with CRT EmuDriver and 15kHz monitor
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2012, 10:07:54 am »

I can't find any monitor model number because it's an old used 29" arcade monitor that came with the JAMMA Cabinet I bought for $200. lol. I'm pretty sure it's the most generic CGA 15 Khz monitor possible.


It's possible that you have a 31KHz arcade monitor, especially given the size of it.  That would probably explain all the low resolutions being blurry.  It's simply impossible to configure things properly if you aren't sure what you have.

Could you take some digital pictures of your monitor inside the cabinet and post them in the "monitor/video" forum.  Title the post something like "help identify my monitor".  Make sure you get pictures from every angle, and get close-ups of the circuit boards as best you can.  You might want to also post a picture of your full cabinet from the outside, in case it gives anyone a clue.
Hantarex Polo 15KHz
Sapphire Radeon HD 7750 2GB (GCN)
GroovyMAME 0.197.017h_d3d9ex
CRT Emudriver & CRT Tools 2.0 beta 13 (Crimson 16.2.1 for GCN cards)
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Intel Core i7-4790K @ 4.8GHz
ASUS Z87M-PLUS Motherboard

tiobolinha

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Re: Fuzzy image on many games with CRT EmuDriver and 15kHz monitor
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2012, 03:04:31 pm »
Hi Krick,

Yes, I think we are in the right track here.

I just started messing up with mame.ini in the part where I identify my monitor type. (changeres options or something).

Here's what I got:

My monitor was identified as CGA and Robocop ran all messed up. I switched my monitor to VGA and Robocop showed perfect image but with that split screen. I tried EGA and everything messed up including MAME's menu.

Another comment: I was uninstalling Soft15Khz and my monitor showed image in a split screen when my computer was sending the 30 Hz signal before I switched back to 15kHz.

If my monitor IS a 31 kHz how should I set it in mame.ini?

I`ll take the pictures ASAP

I'm in a trial and error basis right now but I think I'm getting somewhere.

Thank you very very much!!

tiobolinha

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Re: Fuzzy image on many games with CRT EmuDriver and 15kHz monitor
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2012, 04:18:59 pm »
Hi Krick,

I posted the pictures as advised.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,121726.0.html

Please take a look.

Thank you

mamenewb100

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Re: Fuzzy image on many games with CRT EmuDriver and 15kHz monitor
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2012, 04:57:08 pm »
It would be pretty rare to find an old used 31 Khz arcade monitor. They were just about all 15 Khz years ago. I would think those would be fairly new. The fact that you have it plugged into VGA port and plugging in DVI won't display also makes it likely you have a 15 Khz. Could be wrong though.

Doesn't your monitor have some kind of external control board for adjusting settings? If it does and has an on-screen menu, it should display the Khz and Hz that your monitor is at.
Life is a Game and we are all being Played.

Calamity

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Re: Fuzzy image on many games with CRT EmuDriver and 15kHz monitor
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2012, 06:08:18 pm »
Hi tiobolinha,

You probably need to adjust your monitor's H-freq potentiomenter.

I'll have more tome to help you tomorrow, hopefully.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

tiobolinha

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Re: Fuzzy image on many games with CRT EmuDriver and 15kHz monitor
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2012, 07:19:43 pm »
It would be pretty rare to find an old used 31 Khz arcade monitor. They were just about all 15 Khz years ago. I would think those would be fairly new. The fact that you have it plugged into VGA port and plugging in DVI won't display also makes it likely you have a 15 Khz. Could be wrong though.

Doesn't your monitor have some kind of external control board for adjusting settings? If it does and has an on-screen menu, it should display the Khz and Hz that your monitor is at.

Thank you for your reply. No it doesn't has an on screen menu. It's ALL analog I think. I do have potentiometers for adjusting RGB and Vertical and Horizontal (phase, sync, alignement) settings as well as bright, but they are in the back at the monitor's board. That's it.

I do think it's 15 Khz as I saw it running a KOF96 PCB.

Thank you again!

tiobolinha

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Re: Fuzzy image on many games with CRT EmuDriver and 15kHz monitor
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2012, 07:25:10 pm »
Hi tiobolinha,

You probably need to adjust your monitor's H-freq potentiomenter.

I'll have more tome to help you tomorrow, hopefully.

I did that (adjust the H and V-Freq potentiometers) for the first time I ran the windows desktop and it went ok. I tried for the fuzzy games but it simply doesn't stabilize.

Updating: I got good results setting mame.ini to "PC" in Groovymame. Almost all games went through but with a foggy image...

That's odd isn't it?

Thank you.

Calamity

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Re: Fuzzy image on many games with CRT EmuDriver and 15kHz monitor
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2012, 02:36:13 pm »
Hi tiobolinha,

In order to find out what's happening, please try the following:

1) Download the latest VMMaker/Arcade_OSD versions, from Krick's mirror site: http://mame.3feetunder.com/windows-ati-crt-emudriver/

2) Edit vmmaker.ini, set MonitorType = "CUSTOM" and the following line: monitor_specs_0  15625-15800, 49.50-65.00, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.160, 1.056, 0, 0, 200, 448

3) Still in vmmaker.ini, set your GroovyMAME's path

4) Run VMMaker, restart (make sure your desktop is set to 640x480@60 before restarting)

5) Once in Windows, adjust your monitor if necessary to get a proper picture at 640x480. Notice it will be interlaced (flicker), that's fine.

6) Launch Arcade_OSD. Now, start testing resolutions, from the lower to the higher ones. ONLY test the ones marked as CUSTOM!! Notice which ones work, which ones don't. Try to find a logic. Probably the lower ones don't work, but the higher ones do. That would be a problem with low dotclocks. Report back.

7) If you can't find any logic, post your Modeline.txt file (inside your VMMaker folder) and mark a few of them that work, a few that don't (don't need to test them all).
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

krick

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Re: Fuzzy image on many games with CRT EmuDriver and 15kHz monitor
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2012, 02:44:51 pm »
I just wanted to note that when testing resolutions with Arcade_OSD, you may find that some resolutions cause the screen to "roll".  This is normal and may require you to fiddle with the vertical hold or other monitor setting to get a stable non-rolling image.  I have a 15KHz Hantarex Polo 25 monitor and it took me a while to find the "sweet spot" on my montor adjustments so that certain resolutions didn't roll.  Also, some monitors are more harder to stabilize than others.  It may have something to do with the age of the capacitors.
Hantarex Polo 15KHz
Sapphire Radeon HD 7750 2GB (GCN)
GroovyMAME 0.197.017h_d3d9ex
CRT Emudriver & CRT Tools 2.0 beta 13 (Crimson 16.2.1 for GCN cards)
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Intel Core i7-4790K @ 4.8GHz
ASUS Z87M-PLUS Motherboard

tiobolinha

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Re: Fuzzy image on many games with CRT EmuDriver and 15kHz monitor
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2012, 03:12:22 pm »
I called the guy who sold me the cabinet and he said the monitor is a "Barawood, MC220 / PV 2020". Does this ring any bells?

I googled it and found absolutely nothing.

I'll make the tests tonight and report back right away. Thank you guys!

tiobolinha

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Re: Fuzzy image on many games with CRT EmuDriver and 15kHz monitor
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2012, 08:19:45 pm »
Hi tiobolinha,

In order to find out what's happening, please try the following:

1) Download the latest VMMaker/Arcade_OSD versions, from Krick's mirror site: http://mame.3feetunder.com/windows-ati-crt-emudriver/

2) Edit vmmaker.ini, set MonitorType = "CUSTOM" and the following line: monitor_specs_0  15625-15800, 49.50-65.00, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.160, 1.056, 0, 0, 200, 448

3) Still in vmmaker.ini, set your GroovyMAME's path

4) Run VMMaker, restart (make sure your desktop is set to 640x480@60 before restarting)

5) Once in Windows, adjust your monitor if necessary to get a proper picture at 640x480. Notice it will be interlaced (flicker), that's fine.

6) Launch Arcade_OSD. Now, start testing resolutions, from the lower to the higher ones. ONLY test the ones marked as CUSTOM!! Notice which ones work, which ones don't. Try to find a logic. Probably the lower ones don't work, but the higher ones do. That would be a problem with low dotclocks. Report back.

7) If you can't find any logic, post your Modeline.txt file (inside your VMMaker folder) and mark a few of them that work, a few that don't (don't need to test them all).

Hi,

I did the testing as advised and found out that:

With the specs you gave me Vmaker created only 32 resolutions from 574 found in total.

The monitor supports vertical resolutions from 432 until 704 pixels and flickering starts to show as i go up.

It likes Frequency arround 60Hz. Slightly lower frequencies do show image but starts to go out of vertical sync and it gets worse as I go far from 60Hz. For instance in 51 Hz I can't stabilize even messing with the monitor potentiometers.

That's. I'm excited to know what the next step is! lol

Thank you!
« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 08:30:51 am by tiobolinha »

Calamity

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Re: Fuzzy image on many games with CRT EmuDriver and 15kHz monitor
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2012, 03:52:03 pm »
Hi tiobolinha,

32 resolutions seems too few to me, did you point to the GroovyMAME's patch in vmmaker.ini?

Make sure the ModeTableMethod_XML value is set to 1.

Could you attach here your modeline.txt file?

It sounds odd that only resolutions above 432 lines work. Those are interlaced resolutions, it could be just a coincidence. No progressive resolution works ??!!
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi