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Author Topic: Anyone running C64 emulator with a front end?  (Read 13673 times)

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JayB

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Anyone running C64 emulator with a front end?
« on: July 06, 2012, 07:31:25 am »
Thinking about adding it to my machine (first computer I owned). Curious to see who's running what and if there were any issues that arrise.

I've got the Blast collection and also have Gamebase64 V8 games. 

vanrose72

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Re: Anyone running C64 emulator with a front end?
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2012, 08:44:57 am »
Thinking about adding it to my machine (first computer I owned). Curious to see who's running what and if there were any issues that arrise.

The C64 was my first computer as well, so it holds a special place for me.

I have no trouble at all running Maximus Arcade with a relatively recent version of VICE. The only annoying part is the menu options at the top of the screen in full screen mode, which I believe is a known issue.



JayB

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Re: Anyone running C64 emulator with a front end?
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2012, 11:23:54 am »
Same, used to spend hours as a kid with friends playing on the commodore. Had actually thought of picking one up, really just for nostalgia sakes but the reality is I'm going to hate the loading times  :lol  I wish I had never sold mine all those years ago as I had hundreds of games plus the printer and disc drive too   :banghead:

I think I'll either be running Hyperspin or Mala, undecided as yet. Can I ask, did you use one of the game packs I have downloaded or have you used something different on yours? Just trying to get my head around this as setting up mame, seems, more straight forward. Also, do you use a keyboard or you're finding it ok on a cab?


vanrose72

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Re: Anyone running C64 emulator with a front end?
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2012, 12:27:47 pm »
I think I'll either be running Hyperspin or Mala, undecided as yet. Can I ask, did you use one of the game packs I have downloaded or have you used something different on yours? Just trying to get my head around this as setting up mame, seems, more straight forward. Also, do you use a keyboard or you're finding it ok on a cab?

I don't imagine other frontends would have any trouble with C64 emulation either. However, I can't speak for Hyperspin or Mala because I don't have experience with them.

I haven't used games from the Blast Collection with my cab because I find it easier to use the individual d64 files. You can select the game from the game list and go directly to it without dealing with the Blast menu of five games. That's not to say you can't use Blast; you just have to either assign buttons to the 1-5 input or use the keyboard, that's all.

And speaking of assigning buttons, VICE is much like MAME in that you can edit the default keyset file. That way, you don't have to use a keyboard for F1 through F8 or any other keys. I can share my settings with you if you need it.

Vigo

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Re: Anyone running C64 emulator with a front end?
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2012, 05:17:07 pm »
I have c64 running in Mala on my SNES machine and I love it. It is by far one of the trickiest emulators to set up. It is a really long process, but I love C64 too much to give up on it. I recommend having no more than 50 games for c64 if you really want to work over each game to play seamlessly in the way that I did. Here are the barriers I had to work through:

1) load time: No more LOAD"*",8,1 for me. I do not load the disk files from mala. Even in emulators there is load time, and often a lot of crack intros that I don't want to look at. What I had to do is initially load the game, wait until I get to the game's title screen. Save a snapshot file in vice (not a quicksnapshot), and set mala to load the snapshot files instead of the disk files (In Mala, set game file type to ".VSF" instead of any .D64, .t64, etc.) . Make a snapshot file for each game. Then when i start the game in mala, it starts the snapshot file and I am instantly loaded on the main screen of my game.

2) Non-standardized controls. This is the big one. If you remember back in the day, half of the c64 games used control port 2 instead of 1, and most of them also utilized a keyboard. Some games only used keyboard. To work with this, most people simply have a keyboard docked in their cab, and used player 2 when needed. Since I didn't have a keyboard installed on my project, and didn't want to swap controller ports, I used joy2key to make custom controls for each game. For example, a game of Castle Wolfenstein uses the joystick for aim and move, then the keyboard for functions like search, fire, throw grenade, etc. I set up joy2key to translate button 2 to be fire(left arrow), button 3 to be search(space bar), button 4 to be grenade (Q). Then I instructed Mala to set-up that joy2key configuration on that specific game start. I had to create a configuration for almost every game, and had to create a batch file for mala to start each configuration up. It takes time, which is why I say no more than 50 games. Also, the downside to not having a keyboard is there are a some games that you need a ton of keyboard keys, and those games usually are not playable.

3) Disk swapping. Bigger games like Maniac mansion where you used both sides of the disk are a problem. I just didn't bother with disk swap games. You either need to have the ability to access the the menu to swap disk files, or create a hot swap. I don't remember how to do it, but it was basically setting the game boot to load both disks into Vice at once. Then you have a hotkey that flips between the two disk files. Then there are huge games with like 3 or 4 disk files (I want to say some of the last ninja games, TMNT), I don't know if a hot swap can be easily made for those. It might just be best to have a way to manually load in disk files if you want to have multi disk games.

tony.silveira

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Re: Anyone running C64 emulator with a front end?
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2012, 07:59:17 pm »
i have VICE running thru mamewah with no difficulties, i don't even have the menu bar up top if i'm not mistaken (i believe it's an option in the VICE ini to hide the menu bar).

one trick i did, i mapped the VICE option of (i believe) "warp" mode (ctrl+w).  that way for games that take a long time to load, i hit the key, the emu goes into turbo mode and the game is loaded FAST.

FYI, i believe i am running gamebase images, not sure of the version number though.

Jimbo

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Re: Anyone running C64 emulator with a front end?
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2012, 02:40:46 pm »
If you get GameBase installed on your cab (www,bu22.com), you can get over 20k pre-configured C64 games, all with screenshots/info/best-versions/etc. running seamlessly on your cab using MaLa/GameEx/etc. quite easily.

If you don't know what GameBase64 is, see here www.gb64.com

I have set my C64 collection up on my cab with MaLa and it works great :)

http://www.bu22.com/wiki/exporting_gamebases_to_other_frontends

GameEx also supports it by default.

Cheers


JayB

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Re: Anyone running C64 emulator with a front end?
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2012, 02:00:04 pm »
Firstly, thanks for all the detailed replies guys, much appreciated. I'm going to spend a couple of hours tonight trying these out as I had a quick go the other night and couldn't get a lot of the games to work. Probably did something wrong.

Also, I downloaded Gamebase but you have Mala with Gamebase running? I thought Gamebase was a front end to run an emulator?

Thanks again... I'll be firing some more questions I'm sure  :lol  :cheers:

Jimbo

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Re: Anyone running C64 emulator with a front end?
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2012, 03:54:11 pm »
GameBase is a frontend you are right, but one of the "databases" that GameBase runs is GB64 (20k+ C64 games fully configured for the emulators).

If you want to use the GB64 Database/Screenshots and game files to get your gamelists in MaLa, GameEx or other frontends, you'll need GameBase installed as it is a component of GameBase that runs the games in the other frontends (e.g. MaLa won't run VICE emulator, it will run GameBase via commandline which will then run VICE).

The easiest way to get it up and running is to use GameEx as that frontend has GameBase support built in (you'll still need to download GB64 games/database/screenshots etc which should be available on torrent somewhere (ask/look on gb64.com or lemon64.com forum).

I use MaLa for my cab, so I exported the data from GameBase as in the wiki link in my previous post.

I also have GameBase Amiga on my cab which totally rocks too :)

Good luck! :)

Vigo

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Re: Anyone running C64 emulator with a front end?
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2012, 04:51:23 pm »
Just wondering, what exactly do you mean by pre-configured? I will be adding more c64 games on my next cab and am wondering if there is a definite advantage for someone who does not want 20,000 c64 games on his cabinet. Maybe more like 200.

Does GB64 it set up disk-swaps for multi disk games? Does it set anything as far as game controls, either setting the in game used controls or doing a joystick swap for games that use joystick port 2? Using Mala, can I use snapshots to skip past crack/trainer intro screens?

Thanks!  :cheers:

Jimbo

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Re: Anyone running C64 emulator with a front end?
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2012, 03:29:06 am »
By pre-configured, I mean that each game has been tested in a variety of emulators to get the best possible settings (e.g. Pal/NTSC, joystick controls, true drive emulation, auto-disk-swapping, etc.).

GB64 has 20k+ games, but the way it works is you can initially load up the GameBase frontend so you can browse through all the C64 games... then you create a custom view with just the games you want on your cab (be it 20, 200, 2000, etc).  You can then export this list of games from GameBase and import it into MaLa or another arcade frontend.  For example, in my MaLa setup, I have lists for: All Games, Favourites, 2 Player Games, Shoot'em-Ups, Games by Mastertronic, etc.

GameBase also manages setting up disk-swapping, and the swap between port1 and port2 joysticks etc.  You can tweak/customise all of this with a single script if you want to (but there's really no need).

In terms of skipping past crack/trainer screens - I don't see why you couldn't do it (you could do it using GameBase's repack-after-playing feature), but personally I like them for nostalgia's sake (and I like to choose trainers for my little boy when he plays), and I have set a button up on my cab to toggle VICE's warp mode so I can skip loading times etc.

If you don't mind a small bit of initial setup then this really is the best way (imo) to get C64 games (and actually for quite a few other home computer systems) running perfectly on your cab.

It's explained in detail here: http://www.bu22.com/wiki/exporting_gamebases_to_other_frontends
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 03:32:30 am by Jimbo »

JayB

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Re: Anyone running C64 emulator with a front end?
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2012, 05:15:04 am »
Jimbo, I set up Gamebase last night running WinVice and everything is showing correctly including the "play game" tab being clickable. My problem is that I get a pop up saying "this game type is not supported by this emulator (.zip)" and then shows a list of working ones such as D64, TAP etc when I do click to play. Do I need to unpack all the game zips?  

Fixed. I had written .ZIP in native file types, removed it and all seems to be now working  :)

Can't get the joystick working. Works fine in winvice and have the settings saved but, if I start a game from gamebase with winvice it changes the setting to none. Can't see what to change in the .ini file to rectify this. Any help would be appreciated.

Also, my gamebase v8 games have two folders gb64v08o & gb64v08g. I have Gamebase pointing to the G folder which I think is correct but, the O folder seems to be laid out more methodically into Disk or Tapes etc. Anyone shed some light on what the differences between the two are?  
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 06:12:12 am by JayB »

Jimbo

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Re: Anyone running C64 emulator with a front end?
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2012, 06:59:02 am »
Sounds to me like the O folder might be the disk/tape "originals"... so you might need to set that as your "Extras" path.

GameBase sets the joysticks up every time a game runs according to the rules in the emulator script.  You can edit the script for VICE from the "GEMUS" menu in GameBase and comment out the stuff that sets joysticks up - or change it to how you like it.  If you follow the comments in the script it should give some instructions.

I'm at work at the mo so can't look at the script to tell you exactly where to change it, but if you have probs I can look tonight.

This might help you tho: -
http://gb64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=783


Cheers

JayB

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Re: Anyone running C64 emulator with a front end?
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2012, 07:40:34 am »
That's what they seem to be. When I scanned games using that as the main folder it didn't work and said all not found but the G folder does. I have added O as my extras folder now.

Thanks for your help, I've changed the file details and the joystick is working.  :cheers:

Is there anywhere I can get a bulk load of original cover scans from? I've found individual ones on a few a sites which I don't mind taking my time with but, obviously if they're available in one bundle that'd be much better.

gamer2112

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Re: Anyone running C64 emulator with a front end?
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2012, 07:53:58 am »
I do C64 emulation on my Xbox with Coinops 4. It does disk swapping and works well for the few games I've tried.


Vigo

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Re: Anyone running C64 emulator with a front end?
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2012, 11:01:07 am »
By pre-configured, I mean that each game has been tested in a variety of emulators to get the best possible settings (e.g. Pal/NTSC, joystick controls, true drive emulation, auto-disk-swapping, etc.).

GB64 has 20k+ games, but the way it works is you can initially load up the GameBase frontend so you can browse through all the C64 games... then you create a custom view with just the games you want on your cab (be it 20, 200, 2000, etc).  You can then export this list of games from GameBase and import it into MaLa or another arcade frontend.  For example, in my MaLa setup, I have lists for: All Games, Favourites, 2 Player Games, Shoot'em-Ups, Games by Mastertronic, etc.

GameBase also manages setting up disk-swapping, and the swap between port1 and port2 joysticks etc.  You can tweak/customise all of this with a single script if you want to (but there's really no need).

In terms of skipping past crack/trainer screens - I don't see why you couldn't do it (you could do it using GameBase's repack-after-playing feature), but personally I like them for nostalgia's sake (and I like to choose trainers for my little boy when he plays), and I have set a button up on my cab to toggle VICE's warp mode so I can skip loading times etc.

If you don't mind a small bit of initial setup then this really is the best way (imo) to get C64 games (and actually for quite a few other home computer systems) running perfectly on your cab.

It's explained in detail here: http://www.bu22.com/wiki/exporting_gamebases_to_other_frontends

Thanks for the info, Jimbo. I read through the link as well. Some interesting functions in there. I will have to check out how smoothly the disk swap functions, since that piece seems to be the biggest PITA when doing C64. I don't know if I have any interest in making lists for c64 games based on publisher, but it is definitely good that sort of work is getting done. 10 years ago the commodore achieve was a sloppy mess. 

The big reason why I use snapshots to start past the crack loader screen is because I don't use the keyboard when I am playing games on my cabinet. Most games use a handful of keyboard commands that I map to the joystick controls, and I don't want to have to map additional joystick commands to navigate the crack screen. A lot of crack screens use the Y key, N key, Run/Stop, F keys, and number keys simply to get through to move on to the game. Plus, even with warp loading, it still takes time, maybe 15 seconds to get to the crack screen, shuffle through the hoops to skip onward, and 15-30 seconds to get to the title of the game. I know it beats the 5-10 minutes some c64 games used to take to load, but it is still nice to have the game play instantaneously.

I guess I don't quite have nostalgia over crack screens either, back in the day most my games were legit copies. My copied games were usually copies made between friends, so we didn't have many crack screens to look at. I can see where you are coming from though. Some of the coolest c64 music was from those crack screens.  8)

I think I will at least give GB64 for PC use. I'm not quite sure if it would make things easier for cabinet use in my case, since I would still need to configure controls and snapshots, but standalone it looks very helpful.  :cheers:

Jimbo

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Re: Anyone running C64 emulator with a front end?
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2012, 01:46:21 pm »
Thanks for the info, Jimbo. I read through the link as well. Some interesting functions in there. I will have to check out how smoothly the disk swap functions, since that piece seems to be the biggest PITA when doing C64. I don't know if I have any interest in making lists for c64 games based on publisher, but it is definitely good that sort of work is getting done. 10 years ago the commodore achieve was a sloppy mess. 

The big reason why I use snapshots to start past the crack loader screen is because I don't use the keyboard when I am playing games on my cabinet. Most games use a handful of keyboard commands that I map to the joystick controls, and I don't want to have to map additional joystick commands to navigate the crack screen. A lot of crack screens use the Y key, N key, Run/Stop, F keys, and number keys simply to get through to move on to the game. Plus, even with warp loading, it still takes time, maybe 15 seconds to get to the crack screen, shuffle through the hoops to skip onward, and 15-30 seconds to get to the title of the game. I know it beats the 5-10 minutes some c64 games used to take to load, but it is still nice to have the game play instantaneously.

I guess I don't quite have nostalgia over crack screens either, back in the day most my games were legit copies. My copied games were usually copies made between friends, so we didn't have many crack screens to look at. I can see where you are coming from though. Some of the coolest c64 music was from those crack screens.  8)

I think I will at least give GB64 for PC use. I'm not quite sure if it would make things easier for cabinet use in my case, since I would still need to configure controls and snapshots, but standalone it looks very helpful.  :cheers:

Heh, that's the trouble with those old computers: they had keyboards :)

For me its not a problem - I have a tiny bluetooth keyboard that I bring out when playing old computer games on the cab.  Works a charm and its so small it sits tucked away when not in use. Means I can play those old text-adventures too, and I don't have to worry about too much keyboard/joystick mapping apart from the standard joyport1/2, which is automatically taken care of.

Like you say, if you want to play the C64 games on the cab immediately - then the GB64 route is probably not for you, but I'm glad you're considering it for your PC - and you can probably use the game files to create your snapshots from if you already have it installed.

You might be able to use it for some other old systems tho - there are some good GameBase databases for VIC20, ZXSpectrum, ST, Amiga, etc.

Cheers

Jimbo

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Re: Anyone running C64 emulator with a front end?
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2012, 01:47:40 pm »
That's what they seem to be. When I scanned games using that as the main folder it didn't work and said all not found but the G folder does. I have added O as my extras folder now.

Thanks for your help, I've changed the file details and the joystick is working.  :cheers:

Is there anywhere I can get a bulk load of original cover scans from? I've found individual ones on a few a sites which I don't mind taking my time with but, obviously if they're available in one bundle that'd be much better.

Glad you got it working!

If you look on the gb64.com forum, or even the lemon64.com forum there should be some links to torrents for all the extras etc.

such as this one: http://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39391
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 01:51:09 pm by Jimbo »

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Re: Anyone running C64 emulator with a front end?
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2012, 02:06:31 pm »
Heh, that's the trouble with those old computers: they had keyboards :)

For me its not a problem - I have a tiny bluetooth keyboard that I bring out when playing old computer games on the cab.  Works a charm and its so small it sits tucked away when not in use. Means I can play those old text-adventures too, and I don't have to worry about too much keyboard/joystick mapping apart from the standard joyport1/2, which is automatically taken care of.

Like you say, if you want to play the C64 games on the cab immediately - then the GB64 route is probably not for you, but I'm glad you're considering it for your PC - and you can probably use the game files to create your snapshots from if you already have it installed.

You might be able to use it for some other old systems tho - there are some good GameBase databases for VIC20, ZXSpectrum, ST, Amiga, etc.

Cheers

Haha, yep, exactly. C64 is a keyboard system, and works easier on cabinets with keyboards. Thanks again for the info man. I'll put it to good use.  :cheers:

JayB

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Re: Anyone running C64 emulator with a front end?
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2012, 05:45:09 pm »
Thanks Vigo, will check those out.

I added the originals folder to the extras but, seems they are greyed out. Did a quick check on gb64 and they can't be used? Strange.