Star wars yoke Anyone

[mytymaus007]

Hey i know RAMCONTROLS  is a  piece of muffin but, ahh i wish i can find a yoke! Anyone have one for sale JUst wondering if anyone who has one is it possible to play SPY Hunter correctly

[alfonzotan]

Hey i know RAMCONTROLS  is a  piece of muffin but, ahh i wish i can find a yoke! Anyone have one for sale JUst wondering if anyone who has one is it possible to play SPY Hunter correctly

There are several original yokes (in various states) on eBay right now.  That's how I got mine a while back...

[mytymaus007]

Hey i know RAMCONTROLS  is a  piece of muffin but, ahh i wish i can find a yoke! Anyone have one for sale JUst wondering if anyone who has one is it possible to play SPY Hunter correctly

There are several original yokes (in various states) on eBay right now.  That's how I got mine a while back...

did you ever try to play spy hunter with it! Just curious to see how it plays because it should have enough buttons for all the weapons minus the weapons truck which can be used on the CP

[Xiaou2]

For SH, It would steer just fine.  However, you wont be able to control the gas with the forwards / backwards motion easily.

 The best way, would be to rewire the vertical axis, so that it can either use the yokes y-axis for starwars, or an external pedal set for the gas.   Its an easy thing to wire up, and could be done with a sinlge switch.  (and maybe even switchless if you dont mind both working at the same time)

 The VAN button isnt used for anything except to start the game.  It actually does not call the van, nor make the van come any faster.  It just lights up to let you know the van is coming.

 Far more important, is the use of a real 2way arcade shifter for SH.  If you cant hook that up, then its pointless to play SH at all.

[wp34]

They come up for sale on the KLOV forum somewhat regularly.

Here is one that needs a little work but is a good price -

http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=237247

[Gray_Area]

For SH, It would steer just fine.  However, you wont be able to control the gas with the forwards / backwards motion easily.

Works just fine for me in MAME. Same in Outrun.

[mytymaus007]

Nice I already have a dedicated pedal what 2way shifter do recommend

[Xiaou2]

Works just fine for me in MAME. Same in Outrun.

 What works, and what plays / controls good, are two very different things.

 Outrun is a fairly simply leisurely game.  Spyhunter is Not.  Its cut-throat brutal.  Theres
no room for even the tinyest variant mistake or delay.

 Even with perfect controls, on my actual machine, Spy Hunter whoops me pretty darn good... and Im no slouch on the thing.   Sadly I have the standup.  My Buddie has the Sitdown, and it helps even more, because you dont the issue of standing on one leg while playing.


 Sadly, mame does not currently support true 2way arcade shifters.  You have to use some sort of hardware modification and or hack to get them to work. Too sad.

 Games like Outrun, you dont need to shift too often... but with SH, you have to shift like a madman, to escape issue constantly.  Using buttons to shift just isnt a viable option.  Theres way too many buttons as it is.. and, buttons just dont feel right either.

[mytymaus007]

Works just fine for me in MAME. Same in Outrun.

 What works, and what plays / controls good, are two very different things.

 Outrun is a fairly simply leisurely game.  Spyhunter is Not.  Its cut-throat brutal.  Theres
no room for even the tinyest variant mistake or delay.

 Even with perfect controls, on my actual machine, Spy Hunter whoops me pretty darn good... and Im no slouch on the thing.   Sadly I have the standup.  My Buddie has the Sitdown, and it helps even more, because you dont the issue of standing on one leg while playing.



 Sadly, mame does not currently support true 2way arcade shifters.  You have to use some sort of hardware modification and or hack to get them to work. Too sad.

 Games like Outrun, you dont need to shift too often... but with SH, you have to shift like a madman, to escape issue constantly.  Using buttons to shift just isnt a viable option.  Theres way too many buttons as it is.. and, buttons just dont feel right either.

so as of right now there is no solution until mame supports true 2 way arcade shifter if ever! doesnt the HAPP shifter the one that goes back to the middle after pushing it up or down act as 2 buttons im not sure but i thought it did

[Xiaou2]

There are ways around the issue.. but IMO, it still sucks that proper out of the box support does not work.

 As for the return to center shifters... they stink.  They feel horrible, many look horrible, and they just dont feel or control the same way.
 

[BadMouth]

so as of right now there is no solution until mame supports true 2 way arcade shifter if ever! doesnt the HAPP shifter the one that goes back to the middle after pushing it up or down act as 2 buttons im not sure but i thought it did

The shifter issue and fixes are in the first post of the driving cab thread that you posted in.
I had a modified version of MAME v.144 with the shifter fixed (applying Dmod's diff file by hand), but it was stored on Megaupload so it's gone.

Spy Hunter requires one of the old Hi/Lo shifters that stayed in place.
Most of them only had one switch in them.  If that switch wasn't closed, the game defaulted to low speed.

If you're focused on Spy Hunter, it might not be a bad idea to get one that had a button in the shift handle.

The shifter you have will work, but it will just flip back and forth between the gears whenever it's pushed in either direction.
Whether you're moving the shifter up or down will make no difference, it willl just toggle to whatever gear is opposite of the one you're in.
I found that I enjoyed the games much more and made it farther in them with the shifter working correctly though.

[mytymaus007]

so as of right now there is no solution until mame supports true 2 way arcade shifter if ever! doesnt the HAPP shifter the one that goes back to the middle after pushing it up or down act as 2 buttons im not sure but i thought it did

The shifter issue and fixes are in the first post of the driving cab thread that you posted in.
I had a modified version of MAME v.144 with the shifter fixed (applying Dmod's diff file by hand), but it was stored on Megaupload so it's gone.

Spy Hunter requires one of the old Hi/Lo shifters that stayed in place.
Most of them only had one switch in them.  If that switch wasn't closed, the game defaulted to low speed.

If you're focused on Spy Hunter, it might not be a bad idea to get one that had a button in the shift handle.

The shifter you have will work, but it will just flip back and forth between the gears whenever it's pushed in either direction.
Whether you're moving the shifter up or down will make no difference, it willl just toggle to whatever gear is opposite of the one you're in.
I found that I enjoyed the games much more and made it farther in them with the shifter working correctly though.

What about a 4 speed shifter if you just use 1st and second gear would that solve the problem or is that  an issue also?

[BadMouth]

What about a 4 speed shifter if you just use 1st and second gear would that solve the problem or is that  an issue also?

That's what I use and I like it.  However, the fact that the shifter is set up as a toggle in MAME must still be addressed.

[mytymaus007]

What about a 4 speed shifter if you just use 1st and second gear would that solve the problem or is that  an issue also?

That's what I use and I like it.  However, the fact that the shifter is set up as a toggle in MAME must still be addressed.

so would a 4 speed shifter and a few buttons next to the shifter work with all analog driving games if i use the yoke for a steering wheel, so for spy hunter i would just use a button on CP for shifting purposes. just thinking of the best alll around situation for Analog driving games and shifting.

[Gray_Area]

Works just fine for me in MAME. Same in Outrun.

 What works, and what plays / controls good, are two very different things.

 Outrun is a fairly simply leisurely game.  Spyhunter is Not.  Its cut-throat brutal.  Theres
no room for even the tinyest variant mistake or delay.

 Even with perfect controls, on my actual machine, Spy Hunter whoops me pretty darn good... and Im no slouch on the thing.   Sadly I have the standup.  My Buddie has the Sitdown, and it helps even more, because you dont the issue of standing on one leg while playing.


 Sadly, mame does not currently support true 2way arcade shifters.  You have to use some sort of hardware modification and or hack to get them to work. Too sad.

 Games like Outrun, you dont need to shift too often... but with SH, you have to shift like a madman, to escape issue constantly.  Using buttons to shift just isnt a viable option.  Theres way too many buttons as it is.. and, buttons just dont feel right either.

Shifting with a button works great, and I guarantee is faster than shifting with your hand.  As even less buttons than you mentioned are necessary - you can only have one weapon at a time, hence a dedicated button for each weapon is cosmetic - you need only three: machine gun, weapon, and shift. A yoke has four.

As for throttle, I think using the Y-axis works great for throttle. (You don't have a throttle problem, you have a lack of stool problem.) The only reason I haven't scored above 35k is because there's a slop/dead zone in the center of my X-axis. I haven't bothered to take it apart....

[Xiaou2]

Shifting with a button works great, and I guarantee is faster than shifting with your hand.

 Sorry, but it does not work as well as you think.  I have a dedicated machine, and I have Tried to use other methods with the pc.. and they dont compare.

 Its not merely about speed.  Its about the fact that you already have your hands full of things happening.. and have to reach out to accurately shift.  The lever makes that easy, comfortable, and superior.  You also dont have to memorize more button locations.  Memory fails often under stress.


 

As even less buttons than you mentioned are necessary - you can only have one weapon at a time, hence a dedicated button for each weapon is cosmetic - you need only three: machine gun, weapon, and shift. A yoke has four.

WRONG!!!

 YOU can have ALL the weapons at the same time.  Its just that Obviously you are not good enough to keep them all long enough to attain them all.

 Machine Guns
 Smoke Screen
 Oil
 Missiles  (I guess you never shot down the helicopter either?)

As for throttle, I think using the Y-axis works great for throttle. (You don't have a throttle problem, you have a lack of stool problem.) The only reason I haven't scored above 35k is because there's a slop/dead zone in the center of my X-axis. I haven't bothered to take it apart....

 You obviously have a problem playing, considering you cant hold more than one special weapon, have not had / used missiles,  etc.  

Did you even know theres a Boat stage?
Icy Roads?  

Did you know that the Van has an icon on top of it, so you know what weapon it carries?  

Did you know that you can bump a switchblade car off the road - even if he is mostly behind you, by clipping the very front of his car, and not getting killed by his blades?

Did you know that The Oil slick isnt limited by a number of presses... that it actually runs out based on volume.  If you only press it quickly and release it immediately, you can make it last a Lot longer.  Oil also turns into a wall of fire out in the boat stage.

Did you know that the game tracks how fast you turn the wheel.. and that speed is calculated into how hard you BUMP another car?  So if you slam the wheel hard and fast as possible, the other cars will be pushed away further.   And if you barely bump them at all, the enemy cars slam will overpower your bump, and you will be the one moving.

Did you know that if you keep under a certain speed... that you will bump off pedestrians rather than die from a wreck?

Have you ever shot a pedestrian to use as a projectile against the trailing enemy cars?

Did you know that if you shoot the Van as you are entering it... it will still give you a weapon... them will blow up after you exit?



 A real pedal is needed to actually play the game Well.

 Hook up a set, and find out for real, rather than making up baseless opinions.

[BadMouth]

My problem with the shifter being a toggle is that I lose track of what gear I'm in, even with the added onscreen display.
I lose time by accidentally downshifting when I'm already in high gear and starting out in high gear without knowing it.
I'm sure the toggle works better for those with gamepads, but I do better when I have a real shifter.

The shifter makes no differnece for me on Spy Hunter.  I suck at it either way.
(you definitely know when you're in high gear on that game!)

[mytymaus007]

Shifting with a button works great, and I guarantee is faster than shifting with your hand.

 Sorry, but it does not work as well as you think.  I have a dedicated machine, and I have Tried to use other methods with the pc.. and they dont compare.

 Its not merely about speed.  Its about the fact that you already have your hands full of things happening.. and have to reach out to accurately shift.  The lever makes that easy, comfortable, and superior.  You also dont have to memorize more button locations.  Memory fails often under stress.


 

As even less buttons than you mentioned are necessary - you can only have one weapon at a time, hence a dedicated button for each weapon is cosmetic - you need only three: machine gun, weapon, and shift. A yoke has four.

WRONG!!!

 YOU can have ALL the weapons at the same time.  Its just that Obviously you are not good enough to keep them all long enough to attain them all.

 Machine Guns
 Smoke Screen
 Oil
 Missiles  (I guess you never shot down the helicopter either?)

As for throttle, I think using the Y-axis works great for throttle. (You don't have a throttle problem, you have a lack of stool problem.) The only reason I haven't scored above 35k is because there's a slop/dead zone in the center of my X-axis. I haven't bothered to take it apart....

 You obviously have a problem playing, considering you cant hold more than one special weapon, have not had / used missiles,  etc.  

Did you even know theres a Boat stage?
Icy Roads?  

Did you know that the Van has an icon on top of it, so you know what weapon it carries?  

Did you know that you can bump a switchblade car off the road - even if he is mostly behind you, by clipping the very front of his car, and not getting killed by his blades?

Did you know that The Oil slick isnt limited by a number of presses... that it actually runs out based on volume.  If you only press it quickly and release it immediately, you can make it last a Lot longer.  Oil also turns into a wall of fire out in the boat stage.

Did you know that the game tracks how fast you turn the wheel.. and that speed is calculated into how hard you BUMP another car?  So if you slam the wheel hard and fast as possible, the other cars will be pushed away further.   And if you barely bump them at all, the enemy cars slam will overpower your bump, and you will be the one moving.

Did you know that if you keep under a certain speed... that you will bump off pedestrians rather than die from a wreck?

Have you ever shot a pedestrian to use as a projectile against the trailing enemy cars?

Did you know that if you shoot the Van as you are entering it... it will still give you a weapon... them will blow up after you exit?



 A real pedal is needed to actually play the game Well.

 Hook up a set, and find out for real, rather than making up baseless opinions.

Exxcellent write up love all those weapons this is a great game!So back to the shifter IF i get star wars yoke and analog pedal the only thing left is the shifter. Will a 4 speed shifter work only using 1st and 2nd gear or should i just use a button in its place

[Xiaou2]

My problem with the shifter being a toggle is that I lose track of what gear I'm in, even with the added onscreen display.
I lose time by accidentally downshifting when I'm already in high gear and starting out in high gear without knowing it.
I'm sure the toggle works better for those with gamepads, but I do better when I have a real shifter.

 I agree with everything said here.  The toggle mode is Stupid and Useless... especially for this game.  There should be a real shifter mode hands down.  Its a disgrace.

The shifter makes no differnece for me on Spy Hunter.  I suck at it either way.
(you definitely know when you're in high gear on that game!)

 Everyone loses at SH.  Thats why its so great.  Its no-mercy.  Even the best players can get completely blindsided in a single moment of the Perfect Storm of crazy event sequences.  The AI in that game is some of the best ever seen.

 However, play enough time on the game consecutively, with the proper controls.. and eventually you get the hang of things to survive pretty darn long.

 A tip:  Before shifting to high gear, reduce your speed drastically.  This will put you at the lower end of high gear, keeping you at a safe speed, rather than at the insane warp 9 that its capable of 

 Good pedal control is also key.. Because you have to be able to quickly vary, so that you dont wreck into other cars.. yet still be able to outrun a baddie in a quick-burst motion.  Its a fast intense game, full of non-stop action.  Really gets you pumped up.

[Gray_Area]

Last time I tested, it traded one weapon for the other. Yes I've shot down the helicopter. Yes, I've gotten to the boat stage. I haven't seen it in a while, for some reason or other. I don't think it's that tough a game. I don't play very often because my yoke has a dead spot in the middle.

[Xiaou2]

Last time I tested, it traded one weapon for the other.

 Thats mere coincidence.  You just ran out of the other weapon, and picked up another at the same time.

 When you get really good... you dont have to use the weapons as much.  You can bump the cars off the road, and or use positioning tactics as well.  Use of weapons sparingly, only when things get really hairy.

 Maybe your think the NES version or something.  The Ports are Not the same as the original game. Not even close.

 

I don't think it's that tough a game.

 But you havnt seen the boat house often?   Did you even Pass the boat stage, and get back onto the road? 

 This basically says that the game IS tough.  The boat stage isnt very far into the game at all... so if you dont even make it to the 1st boat stage, let alone the icy roads, and 2nd+ boat stages... then you really are not even scratching the surface of the game.

 Thats like saying Robotron is easy, and only making it to stage 9.   It makes no sense.

 The gameplay may seem simple in many of these games, but staying alive for a long duration of time in these games... is not easy.

 And with Spy Hunter, the shear number of ways to die.. .and the ways in which you end up dieing, are way beyond the typical arcade game scope.  Its the ultimate example of 'Murphys Law' in effect.

 The game is so brutal with the ease of lifes passings... that they actually programmed it so you could crash all you want for like over 1min of time.  Thats pretty much unheard of in the typical money grubbing 80s arcade machines.  It says a Lot about the games difficulty.

 Start keeping track of how long you survive After the timer has ran out.  And average times to wreck.

I don't play very often because my yoke has a dead spot in the middle.

 Change the steering pot. They are cheap, and its a pretty easy fix.  You can also adjust mames settings for the dead zone, though, the fix is a much better solution.

[BadMouth]

I don't play very often because my yoke has a dead spot in the middle.

Not sure if this is the issue or not, but the default .3 dead zone setting in MAME is ridiculous for steering.
Drop it to around .05 or .03

[Gray_Area]

I don't play very often because my yoke has a dead spot in the middle.

Not sure if this is the issue or not, but the default .3 dead zone setting in MAME is ridiculous for steering.
Drop it to around .05 or .03

I'm pretty sure it's the yoke, but I'll check....

 Thats mere coincidence.  You just ran out of the other weapon, and picked up another at the same time.

..........................          ..........................          ...........................

[Xiaou2]

I'm pretty sure it's the yoke, but I'll check....

You can test the Pot by a number of ways:

1) Windows Joystick Calibration. Turn the yoke, and see live update of the values shift in the form of a sliding bar.

2) Hook up a multimeter to the two leads of the pot. Turning it should produce a sliding value. If no value comes back, then theres a wear spot... or the pot is dirty on that spot.  Component cleaner might fix this.

3) Go into the service menu of most games in mame, and choose the calibration option.  It shows hex values that change as you move the controllers.  (turn off mames deadzone beforehand, So you get accurate results of the pot values changing)


 Make sure to always calibrate the joystick in windows before running it in mame.
Also, make sure to delete any old ini & nvram..etc.. files in mame.
Finally, certain games in mame may need in-game calibration before they work 100% properly.

 Spy Hunter Does in fact have a Calibration system.  Press tab, choose dip switches, turn on the dip for service mode... then use the appropriate keys to move and enter the mode. Once done, toggle the service mode dipswitch back.  Mame should retain the setting.

[BadMouth]

Spy Hunter Does in fact have a Calibration system.  Press tab, choose dip switches, turn on the dip for service mode... then use the appropriate keys to move and enter the mode. Once done, toggle the service mode dipswitch back.  Mame should retain the setting.

Good thing to bring up!

It's easy to miss that with the older games when you're in the habit of seeing a service button to map.

[Xiaou2]

Good thing to bring up!

It's easy to miss that with the older games when you're in the habit of seeing a service button to map.

 Thanks. 

 But do remember... that its not just older games.  Pretty much all arcade games from old to newly released games... usually have a calibration system in the service menu.

 Pots can get out of alignment when they are serviced, because of the gearing.  The op has to know where to position it, so that it has the correct range of values... and so that it does not travel past its full turning capability.  The game itself may have a preferred range that you need to physically adjust for... and or the Calibration will allow the game to re-map the games settings to match your pots min and max values.

 The calibration is also used for making sure there are no bad spots.  Though, its doubtful that any games skip values based on a bad spot. It just allows an op to know its time to replace that pot, when they see the values cease to change. 

 Pots are pretty durable, and can last many years of abuse without issue... but eventually, wear can break them down, and you end up with a 'bad-spot', intermittent connection / complete failure.

 Pots come in two main types:  Linear and Logarithmic (aka "audio taper").  You can probably still grab them at Radio Shack for pretty cheap.  Linear is what you want.  Linear ups/downs the resistance gradually  (1,2,3,4,5...)   ...where as Audio Taper pots tend to increase or decrease values in a multiplicative scale  IE: 1,2,3,10,25,100


 Another note about Spy Hunter... is that if the gas pot isnt well calibrated.. you can either go too fast (faster than the game intended a player to go), or, not have the ability to Boost.  Turns out that the game has a Turbo boost of speed that comes from high gear and a deep push of the pedal.  You can see flames shoot out the rear the car when it happens.

 AfterBurner II has a similar thing.. where you get a limited speed burst when you drop it into high speed.  The after-burners engage, and you rocket past things like mad for a few seconds, until it wears off and goes back to normal.


 Its a little odd that the Spyhunter designers didnt hard-limit the acceleration.  Eventually people found out that if you dislodged the pedal, you could make it go down further... and get more speed out of the car.  I believe this gives you enough speed in low gear to outrun baddies... where as normally, you could never do that... and have to risk high speed impacts in high gear to burst away.

 I suspect that many people who play SH using mame do not know about the gas clipping, and get an unfair and unrealistic response out of the game as a result.  Unless you have the exacting pot travel of the original... and or limit your pedal physically... then I think you will not have the correct gameplay speeds.  Calibration values between a real machine and mame computer gas pedals might help to figure out the proper setting.. but you still will have to physically solve this... unless someone creates a software cheat to lock-down the gas pedal values.

[Gray_Area]

Did someone edit my last post?  Anyways. It's the yoke. I'm not tearing it apart any time soon, though.

[Xiaou2]

I'm not tearing it apart any time soon, though.

 Tearing apart?   The x axis pot isnt even covered up.  Its on the outside of the yoke.

Takes one set screw, One small nut, and 3 solder joints to remove the pot.

 If your a rookie with a soldering Iron & are really taking your time, maybe it would take you 30min tops.   I could probably do it in less than 15 min (start to finish, including getting the tools together), less than 10 if I was playing against the clock... for the fun of it.

 Try taking apart a Race Drivin sit down shifter, and replacing those pots.  Now thats a bit of a challenge.

[RCA KeGGeR]

http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=238995    Yoke for Sale

[leapinlew]

As for the return to center shifters... they stink. 
 

Spyhunter is a great game. It's like Pole Position in the fact that you can't beat it and the best you can do is improve your score and get further.

I built a mame machine with a return to center shifter. I agree that the shifter isn't ideal, in fact it downright stinks in some games, but I think for Spy Hunter where there is only a Lo/Hi and it's pretty obvious which one you are in, it would be the best substitute.

[Gray_Area]

As for the return to center shifters... they stink.  
 

Spyhunter is a great game. It's like Pole Position in the fact that you can't beat it and the best you can do is improve your score and get further.

What?


@RCA KeGGer: dude, thank you.


Lastly, just now....even with my yoke that sucks my sphinc hole (well, I guess it's not that bad; I'm just fussy)....I got just under 40k. I missed the boat house because I went right! Didn't know it was coming.

Also, it would only allow me one weapon at a time. I had oil, and the missile van came up with some baddies tailing it, and suddenly no oil! A couple times (I played a few games, the last one being the best, and a new record) the chopper came up and I hadn't been given any missiles!!

[Xiaou2]

How do you KNOW you had Oil?

 There are no gauges to tell you how MUCH oil you have.  Its all based on the amount of time you hold down the oil button.

 Just because your OIL is lit up, and or you had oil for a while... does not mean it didnt run out well before you hit the Van.    Not to mention... You do realize that if you crash, you also lose all your weapons supplies right?


 If you think Im a liar, go ask other 'good' Spy Hunter players.

 Smoke, unlike Oil, is limited to 3 uses.  Same for Missiles.

 As for your score, its Piddly.  Sorry.

[Xiaou2]

This is a Horrible video... using improper control, however, it shows two weapons at once.

 Start watching around 2:06.   Before 2:25, he will release smoke and oil.

[ahofle]

Also, it would only allow me one weapon at a time. I had oil, and the missile van came up with some baddies tailing it, and suddenly no oil! A couple times (I played a few games, the last one being the best, and a new record) the chopper came up and I hadn't been given any missiles!!

Each weapon has a separate key mapping in MAME -- it sounds like you are using one key for all weapons?  You should have separate keys bound to: oil, smoke, missiles.

[leapinlew]

This is a Horrible video... using improper control, however, it shows two weapons at once.

 Start watching around 2:06.   Before 2:25, he will release smoke and oil.

Is there a setting that allows 1 man every 10k points? That doesn't seem familiar. At my arcade, once you got to 10k, you got a free man and that was it.

[Xiaou2]

Should be an extra man every 30,000 points.

 He has went into the Service Menu, and changed the default point settings for extra men.

He might have also enabled a mame cheat for unlimited oil, because I dont think oil last as long as Ive seen him dish
it out.

 There are point and difficulty settings in the service mode.  In fact, many arcade games are the same.  Either the settings are hardcoded into the Dip Switches... or they are in the Service mode settings.

[Gray_Area]

@lew: Pole Position has an end. Three or four laps, depending. There's a score limit.


In MAME, the default is one new car if you're still going when the timer runs out (like all/most games of this kind). I might've gotten another one after 25k.


X2, shut up dude. I can see why you learned to fight, because people wanted to kick your ass for your loose mouth. I wasn't saying my score was great. I was saying I could at least get to those places with my less than stellar yoke.

[Xiaou2]

In MAME, the default is one new car if you're still going when the timer runs out (like all/most games of this kind). I might've gotten another one after 25k.

 Sorry, but your yet Wrong Again.  (Big Surprise?)    

 You can actually get two cars before the timer runs out... If you are good enough.  Points are accumulated by merely driving.  The further you go = the more points you get.   If you can drive at near top speeds, without crashing, for a long period of time, you can amass double or more the typical points in the same time period... thus, two men are possible.  I know, because Ive done it a few times.

X2, shut up dude. I can see why you learned to fight, because people wanted to kick your ass for your loose mouth. I wasn't saying my score was great. I was saying I could at least get to those places with my less than stellar yoke.

 You sit here and tell people what appears to be fact, when in fact, your just talking out of your butt.  People try to give you advise... and you dont even listen / believe.   You make baseless assumptions.

 And after your crappy attitude, Yeah, I gave some of it right back at you.

 I didnt learn how to Protect myself because of my personality.  In fact, I pretty much get along with anyone I meet... unless they are a real tool, and or have a bad attitude from the start.   Ive never really gotten into any serious fights, because, unlike you, Im not a punk (as proven by your words / responses).   If anyone needs a lesson in self control & respect, well.. just take a peek in the mirror and you might figure it out.

[MinerAl]

Would it be possible to replicate the shifter with a dedicated joystick with a single locking switch in the up position instead of momentary switches in 4 places?

I'm not good at playing the game in question; I'm not interested in entering the pissing contest; I was just thinking about solutions to the shifter issue. 

[mytymaus007]

This is a Horrible video... using improper control, however, it shows two weapons at once.

 Start watching around 2:06.   Before 2:25, he will release smoke and oil.

Damm Your good this was with a star wars yoke or the original cabinet!

[Xiaou2]

Damm Your good this was with a star wars yoke or the original cabinet!

This is not me.  Just a vid I found.

 However, its not exactly good.  Hes using cheats.. such as the increased low-gear speed to outrun cars...
extra men every 10,000 instead of the default 30,000.   And I believe an unlimited Oil cheat.

 It appears hes using a gamepad or cabinet with a standard joystick and buttons.   You can tell this because
of the sounds, as well as the jerkiness of the gameplay.   As good as he is, he can barely keep it together...
and he cant handle the icy roads, for example, because he simply does not have enough control.

 If he actually used a pedal and wheel set... he could probably do really well.  Hes got good reflexes.. but the controller problem is clearly hampering him.

[Xiaou2]

Would it be possible to replicate the shifter with a dedicated joystick with a single locking switch in the up position instead of momentary switches in 4 places?

 Sadly, mame currently has no option for  locked-in-place  switches.  This is why we cant easily use real arcade shifters... nor make our own shifters that function the same as arcade shifters.

 Mame's games are set up to auto-toggle... and that mode Sucks for shifter games.

 Because nobody who works on mame knows how to appreciate a good game of Spy Hunter (for example) with the proper controls... we have to suffer with substandard and non-accurate input methods.

[matsadona]

Would it be possible to replicate the shifter with a dedicated joystick with a single locking switch in the up position instead of momentary switches in 4 places?

 Sadly, mame currently has no option for  locked-in-place  switches.  This is why we cant easily use real arcade shifters... nor make our own shifters that function the same as arcade shifters.

 Mame's games are set up to auto-toggle... and that mode Sucks for shifter games.

 Because nobody who works on mame knows how to appreciate a good game of Spy Hunter (for example) with the proper controls... we have to suffer with substandard and non-accurate input methods.

I think this is really odd, since the MAME devs in almost every other part of the emulation prioritize correct emulation before gameplay. Why did they choose to do like this for the shifters?

[leapinlew]

Because nobody who works on mame knows how to appreciate a good game of Spy Hunter (for example) with the proper controls... we have to suffer with substandard and non-accurate input methods.

That's a nice broad generalization. If only there was a way for you to edit Mame source code... 

[Xiaou2]

I think this is really odd, since the MAME devs in almost every other part of the emulation prioritize correct emulation before gameplay. Why did they choose to do like this for the shifters?

 According to some Devs, its EASY for a person to learn to program, and make mame drivers... yet,
no Dev seems capable of being able to figure out how to enable multiple methods of shifter inputs into a driver.

 Of course, you have Devs like Haze, who think all the games are fine to play with an xbox controller... and that they should look like that Video I posted where the persons controls are so bad, that it makes the game feel / look like someone is playing while having a seizure.

[Xiaou2]

That's a nice broad generalization. If only there was a way for you to edit Mame source code...

 Theres no good reason why anyone who wants to play a game should have to modify the source code. 
Theres no reason why there cant be multiple input methods, such as in the case of almost Every other game and input method.

 Its a waste of electrical power consumption / environmental.. as well as a waste of time, for people to have to jump through hoops, for something that should be 'easily' programmed in.

 Fork chains and source mods always are difficult to maintain.  They Should be in the official source.  These games should be able to be played and controlled the exact way that they were intended to be controlled.

[BadMouth]

I think this is really odd, since the MAME devs in almost every other part of the emulation prioritize correct emulation before gameplay. Why did they choose to do like this for the shifters?

It came about because for keyboard and gamepad users (including those who were writing the drivers), it was a PITA to hold down a button to stay in gear.

I can't code, but Dmod made a diff file for an older version (127 IIRC) and I've been able to manually copy and paste the changes to newer versions before compiling.  Of course, this just gets rid of the PORT_TOGGLE so the game behaves as it would originally.  That's good, but it doesn't add any flexibility for people with other types of shifters like the sequential shifters that return to center.  I never played the old sprite based games before fixing the shifter.  Now I like them as much as the newer 3D games.

baritonomarchetto has a working solution in RacerMAME that allows you to use the original, toggle, or even sequential shifter.
It's based on MAME v.106 though, so I don't know how well it translates to current builds.

I've started threads about it hoping someone who can help would take an interest in the issue, but they've all gone nowhere.
We can talk about it all day, but when it comes down to it, we're mostly end users, tinkerers and woodworkers on this board.  
Until someone knowledgable enough to submit code that would be accepted into the main build takes an interest in it, it's not going to be done.  

EDIT: And if anyone reading this happens to take an interest in it, here is a spreadsheet of the affected drivers. 
         https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArE1chsgHXQodDd2ckdjLVY3Ujlad2tZWUpteDNtcXc&authkey=CIrIhMwE&hl=en&authkey=CIrIhMwE#gid=0
         Click the shifter hack column and read the full description at the top of the spreadsheet.
         Only updated as of v.141  RIP MAWS
         PORT_TOGGLE has been added to two or three drivers since then.  I can find the info if needed.
 

[Gray_Area]

...because, unlike you, Im not a punk (as proven by your words / responses).   If anyone needs a lesson in self control & respect, well.. just take a peek in the mirror and you might figure it out.

The frequency of your posts, just in this thread, speak 'attention whore'. And my posts aren't....yet....getting clipped. How's that mirror for you?


Sorry, mytymaus, I clipped your yoke.

[mytymaus007]

...because, unlike you, Im not a punk (as proven by your words / responses).   If anyone needs a lesson in self control & respect, well.. just take a peek in the mirror and you might figure it out.

The frequency of your posts, just in this thread, speak 'attention whore'. And my posts aren't....yet....getting clipped. How's that mirror for you?


Sorry, mytymaus, I clipped your yoke.

You bought the yoke? 

[mytymaus007]

...because, unlike you, Im not a punk (as proven by your words / responses).   If anyone needs a lesson in self control & respect, well.. just take a peek in the mirror and you might figure it out.

The frequency of your posts, just in this thread, speak 'attention whore'. And my posts aren't....yet....getting clipped. How's that mirror for you?


Sorry, mytymaus, I clipped your yoke.

You bought the yoke? 

Got another one in the works!Hopefully this one goes through!!

[Xiaou2]

The frequency of your posts, just in this thread, speak 'attention whore'. And my posts aren't....yet....getting clipped. How's that mirror for you?

 My responses are to do with passion for the hobby.  Your BS posts, are the reason why there are so many replies.  Had you not been talking out of your butt... then no correction would have been needed.

 As for post getting clipped.. that was Me, and my own choice. Not anyone else.

 Furthermore, if you really bought another yoke, because you couldnt fix a single pot, then I feel extremely sorry for you.

[mytymaus007]

The frequency of your posts, just in this thread, speak 'attention whore'. And my posts aren't....yet....getting clipped. How's that mirror for you?

 My responses are to do with passion for the hobby.  Your BS posts, are the reason why there are so many replies.  Had you not been talking out of your butt... then no correction would have been needed.

 As for post getting clipped.. that was Me, and my own choice. Not anyone else.

 Furthermore, if you really bought another yoke, because you couldnt fix a single pot, then I feel extremely sorry for you.

LOLl Xiaou2 you lost me not sure what your saying that I had a bad POT that was actually in another post that I had and that was in a HAPP pedal not a star wars yoke. AS for the yoke i was looking to buy one and missed out on one the other day so when you said you clipped it and said sorry i thought you bought it before me. So im not sure what you mean about your other comments! Sounds like a miss understanding!

[Xiaou2]

mytymaus007,  nah man, you misunderstood me.   I was talking about GrayArea... not you.

 Hes mentioned his yoke needed a simple repair.. and it seems like he just bought another yoke out from under you... rather than the easy fix.

 You have to understand, that Pots dont last forever.  They WILL eventually need to be changed... and its NOT difficult at all.   Buying an entire new assembly instead of swapping out a pot is just like trading in your car, because of your flat tire that you dont want to figure out how to change.

[mytymaus007]

 thats what i thught

mytymaus007,  nah man, you misunderstood me.   I was talking about GrayArea... not you.

 Hes mentioned his yoke needed a simple repair.. and it seems like he just bought another yoke out from under you... rather than the easy fix.

 You have to understand, that Pots dont last forever.  They WILL eventually need to be changed... and its NOT difficult at all.   Buying an entire new assembly instead of swapping out a pot is just like trading in your car, because of your flat tire that you dont want to figure out how to change.

that what i thought it was a misunderstanding I here ya on the POTS just replaced one on a pedal that i had! Damm Pots

[Gray_Area]

Sorry, mytymaus, I clipped your yoke.

You bought the yoke? 
[/quote]

Yep. Mine needs tension springs to have crisp, correct return to center. Why bother when I don't have to? Glad you got another one in the works.