More Craigslist fun...

[stu33]

Here's the ad that I emailed a guy on:

Pinball machine Williams Klondike nice shape Cheap !!! - $250 (Newark Ny)

Date: 2012-05-24, 1:32PM EDT
Reply to: 3snpv-3035545934@sale.craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]

I have for sale a Williams 1970's Em pinball machine Nice shape complete needs contact cleaning to work 100% selling at a great price check your local price guide . price is $250 firm . If its posted its for sale In Newark Ny 14513 . Thanks sorry no pictures come view the machine first hand . Thanks for looking
Location: Newark Ny
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

Here was my first email:

"I'm just wondering, how playable is it now?  I'm interested in moving into
pinball (i've built a couple MAME arcade machines) and this would be my
first.  I'd like it to be at least somewhat playable before I went through
with the contact cleaning."

And here's his response:

"sorry the head that comes apart from the unit is off . So I don't know what it needs maybe it works not sure but I priced it to sell ."

Am I wrong in feeling like this guy is basically a complete a total d-bag?  Obviously the reason there's no pics, because it's apart.  And why would it be apart?  Probably something more than just a contact cleaning problem.  Honestly, I really have no idea if 250 is too much, but had he been honest from the start, I would most likely be willing to pay the 250 for a project...now I don't want anything to do with this guy...

[stu33]

Oh neat, you're publicly slamming a seller even though he sent you a polite response and a cent hasn't changed hands.  Trying to scare everyone off so you can beat him down on the price in a week?  You sound like you don't know the first thing about pinball - might be time for another hobby.

 

Heh, actually, I'm done with this guy completely.  Won't be haggling with him on price at all.  If he had been honest in the first place, I would have been totally cool.  But saying it only needs a contact cleaning to be 100% and then saying "sorry the head that comes apart from the unit is off . So I don't know what it needs maybe it works not sure" just makes me want to kick a puppy.

Also, I honestly don't know a thing about pinball, other than playing them, that's why I'm looking for one that doesn't need a complete resto...a 'dip my toes in the water' machine.  Minor stuff I'm all for (I'm handy with a DVM), but something with massive issues, or completely unknown issues is not for me.  Not yet, anyway.

[smalltownguy]

Also, I honestly don't know a thing about pinball

Got that right. $250 bones for a pin is good money. You should have just gone over there, bought it, and STFU.

For future reference, the pin side of things will cost you exponentially more money than vids. For god's sake, stay away from anything pre-1985. Too many issues.

Set aside at least a half a grand for anything that works, and plan on spending 1K for anything that doesn't have issues.

[HaRuMaN]

For future reference, the pin side of things will cost you exponentially more money than vids. For god's sake, stay away from anything pre-1985. Too many issues.

I have a 1973 Spanish Eyes, bought working for $350, have owned it for 5 years.  Replaced all the rubbers, and some light bulbs, and that's it.  Still working today, no issues at all.  

[smalltownguy]

For future reference, the pin side of things will cost you exponentially more money than vids. For god's sake, stay away from anything pre-1985. Too many issues.

I have a 1973 Spanish Eyes, bought working for $350, have owned it for 5 years.  Replaced all the rubbers, and some light bulbs, and that's it.  Still working today, no issues at all.  

You say this because you believe it to be the norm for a 40 year old pin?

You do know what a statistical bell curve is, right?

[Nephasth]

Also, I honestly don't know a thing about pinball, other than playing them, that's why I'm looking for one that doesn't need a complete resto...a 'dip my toes in the water' machine.

I've got a Star Explorer you can dip your toes into...

[stu33]

Also, I honestly don't know a thing about pinball

Got that right. $250 bones for a pin is good money. You should have just gone over there, bought it, and STFU.

For future reference, the pin side of things will cost you exponentially more money than vids. For god's sake, stay away from anything pre-1985. Too many issues.

Set aside at least a half a grand for anything that works, and plan on spending 1K for anything that doesn't have issues.

It's not the price, it's just the dishonesty that makes me not want to bother with this guy.  He's actually got 3 or 4 pins on craigslist right now, all with pictures and the like.  Just not this one.

[smalltownguy]

Maybe I missed something here, but I don't see where the CL seller was dishonest? All I see is that he said it's in nice shape and complete.

Who cares if the backbox is disconnected. Go get it!

[stu33]

$250 for a local Klondike in decent shape was a no brainer purchase if you were interested in it.  How much do you expect this stuff to cost?  $20?

Geez...it's not the price that was the problem...it was the fact that he misrepresented the machine, imo.   

With an EM, so long as it's complete it's fixable.  Once you get them going they're extremely reliable and nothing keeps them running like an occasional game.  I lost my key to one of my EMs almost 4 years ago.  Haven't been inside it once since then.  Figured I'd drill out the lock whenever it farted on me.  Nope - runs like a champ.

Have another EM I've owned nearly 10 years.  Never a problem with it.

I've heard this several times, mostly the reason I've been looking for EM machines.

Maybe I missed something here, but I don't see where the CL seller was dishonest? All I see is that he said it's in nice shape and complete.

Who cares if the backbox is disconnected. Go get it!

He said in the ad that all it needed was a contact cleaning to be 100%, then in email said that he wasn't sure what it needed or if it works.

[smalltownguy]

You: eager buyer who reads this:

Code: [Select]

Nice shape complete needs contact cleaning to work 100%
And thinks this:

Code: [Select]

"Hey, it works!"
Him: Casual seller who writes this:

Code: [Select]

Nice shape complete needs contact cleaning to work 100%
And means this:

Code: [Select]

Nice shape complete needs contact cleaning to work 100%
The table doesn't work. Unless you're not sharing more information with us, I don't see where he's been dishonest. His description says it needs contact cleaning to work. That means it doesn't work. The fact that he expressed doubt in his reply to you as to any other underlying issues with the pin doesn't change the fact that the pin doesn't work. It still doesn't work.

At the very least all his email does is clarify to you that he's not sure why it doesn't work.

I don't believe his ad claims a working machine. I read it as a project machine. And it's priced accordingly. If it were working, it'd be priced much higher.

[stu33]

You: eager buyer who reads this:

Code: [Select]

Nice shape complete needs contact cleaning to work 100%
And thinks this:

Code: [Select]

"Hey, it works!"
Him: Casual seller who writes this:

Code: [Select]

Nice shape complete needs contact cleaning to work 100%
And means this:

Code: [Select]

Nice shape complete needs contact cleaning to work 100%
The table doesn't work. Unless you're not sharing more information with us, I don't see where he's been dishonest. His description says it needs contact cleaning to work. That means it doesn't work. The fact that he expressed doubt in his reply to you as to any other underlying issues with the pin doesn't change the fact that the pin doesn't work. It still doesn't work.

At the very least all his email does is clarify to you that he's not sure why it doesn't work.

I don't believe his ad claims a working machine. I read it as a project machine. And it's priced accordingly. If it were working, it'd be priced much higher.

Heh...again, not about the price...

I took "all it needs is a contact cleaning to work 100%" to mean that "all it needs is a contact cleaning to work 100%", not "I really am not sure if it works, or what would be needed for it to work".

Anyway, I followed up with him some more, I might still go take a look, you guys have beaten me down so.   

Here's the followups:

Me:  "Have you played it at all?  Have you ever seen this particular one working
in any capacity?"

Him:  "Yes had it working two years ago when I took it in on trade ."

Me:  "Ok, thank you for your time.  I may be contacting you again to set up a time for me to come take a look."

[smalltownguy]

Okay, that makes more sense.

I'm argumentative today, can you tell?

[yotsuya]

Okay, that makes more sense.

I'm argumentative today, can you tell?

No, you're not!

[stu33]

Nah, ---fudgesicle--- this guy.  If he can't manage basic communication without running to a forum to post a 'bad seller' thread then we don't need him around.

I didn't followup until after the beating on here from you guys.  I'm sorry you feel that I failed in basic communication.  I asked him an initial question about his ad, where he said something needed one thing to be 100%, in his reply to my question, he said that he wasn't sure what it needed to work.  I feel that was misrepresentation.

[smalltownguy]

Somehow I feel your avatar might be misrepresentation too.

[stu33]

Somehow I feel your avatar might be misrepresentation too.

Heh, I'm not trying to sell my avatar.  That is my face, though.   

[TopJimmyCooks]

It's common to remove the backbox for storing pins in an upright position or to move them.  It's not in and of itself a problem.  I have to take the backbox off everything due to a narrow gameroom door.  If I advertised a nonworking pin I would not feel the need to mention whether the backbox/legs were off or not.  That said, I wouldn't go $250 on a nonworking EM, unless for some reason it was really nice cosmetically or a very desirable game.

[Dawgz Rule]

A Klondike is a pretty hard find and a steal for $250.  I spent a few years looking for one before I had it one in hand.

[compute]

All a complete EM ever needs to get working is contact cleaning.

I've had more issues with the steppers than just cleaning contacts.  I've become a pro at cleaning/rebuilding those.  I haven't worked on anything besides Williams EM games, but I do find them to be quite reliable. The great thing about the later games is there's more documentation.  My Aztec come with a nice manual showing a breakdown of all of the relays and what wires were what, how to set the different pricing, and a breakdown of the startup sequence.  Making it work after I broke it hasn't been easy, but I love working on my games.