HAPP Analog pedals to A-pac from ultimarc

[mytymaus007]

IM trying to hook my 2 pedals to my A-pac. Double checked the wiring everything seems good. I have 3 wires from potetionometer. When holding the potetionometer upright i have the first tab as the ground and the other 2 notsure but all 3 is hooked tothe a-pac. Also in MAME the settings say keyboard next to the pedal device in  the MAME settings not sure whats thats suppose to say changing it to mouse didnt work! Any ideas

[PL1]

From Ultimarc's A-Pac page.

Details and FAQ on link. Hope this helps.


Scott

Edit: If you wire it like the diagram above and it's working backward, swap wires 1 and 3. (power and ground, I believe) This should fix it without editing every game's configuration, since it will swap one end of the whole resistor for the other.

[mytymaus007]

Nah did that still not working!

[PL1]

When it's wired like the diagram, does anything register on the calibration/test page when you move the pedal? Is the indicator centered or in a corner?


To verify the potentiometer is working.

Power off and disconnect from the A-Pac
Hook a multimeter to 1 and 3.
Set to Ohms.
Watch meter as you press the pedal. Does the reading increase/decrease?
The reading should stay pretty steady -- if not, find the two terminals that maintain a steady resistance reading and call them 1 and 3. Verify that readings vary when connected to 1 and 2 or 2 and 3 and the pedal is pressed.


Scott

[BadMouth]

Also in MAME the settings say keyboard next to the pedal device in  the MAME settings not sure whats thats suppose to say changing it to mouse didnt work! Any ideas

I've never used one, but it's my understanding that the A-Pac shows up as two gamepads. 
Check to see that it's showing up in windows under game controllers before messing with MAME.
You should be able to calibrate the axis and see them move in windows.

[mytymaus007]

When it's wired like the diagram, does anything register on the calibration/test page when you move the pedal? Is the indicator centered or in a corner?


To verify the potentiometer is working.

Power off and disconnect from the A-Pac
Hook a multimeter to 1 and 3.
Set to Ohms.
Watch meter as you press the pedal. Does the reading increase/decrease?
The reading should stay pretty steady -- if not, find the two terminals that maintain a steady resistance reading and call them 1 and 3. Verify that readings vary when connected to 1 and 2 or 2 and 3 and the pedal is pressed.


Scott

need to get a multimeter to test

[mytymaus007]

Also in MAME the settings say keyboard next to the pedal device in  the MAME settings not sure whats thats suppose to say changing it to mouse didnt work! Any ideas

I've never used one, but it's my understanding that the A-Pac shows up as two gamepads. 
Check to see that it's showing up in windows under game controllers before messing with MAME.
You should be able to calibrate the axis and see them move in windows.

i see one gamepad and i am not able to calibrate

[CoryBee]

If this helps, I have this one and some more expensive ones. Anything helps though when you have none.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Multimeter-DT-830D-/250977621404?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6f6e959c

[PL1]

i see one gamepad and i am not able to calibrate

On the test tab, is it centered (doesn't see it) or off to the corner(sees it as a min/max)?

Do you have another pot to try?

Have any resistors up to 100k ohm? You can use them like a pot dialed to that value to trick the board. (connect one from black to yellow, maybe another from yellow to red on the diagram)


Scott

[mytymaus007]

ok looks my a-pac was a dislexic version because it seems backwards from the diagram above Look at pics.
1. does it matter on the potentiometer what the tabs are connectted to basically from diagram the 1st tab and the last tab are both hooked to the ground from 1stplayer to 2nd player on diagram so from diagram im not sure which is the ground. Still need to get meter to read but its a brand new pedal from HAPP.

[PL1]

1. does it matter on the potentiometer what the tabs are connectted to basically from diagram the 1st tab and the last tab are both hooked to the ground from 1stplayer to 2nd player on diagram so from diagram im not sure which is the ground. Still need to get meter to read but its a brand new pedal from HAPP.

If the first and last tabs on a pot are hooked to ground, it will never work.  It will only read ground.

Also, on the encoder the inputs aren't ground, they are switched "on" when ground is connected, completing the circuit and allowing current to flow. In plumbing terms, inputs are faucets, ground is the drain.  Hook your drains together(daisy chain ground), no problem.  Hook your faucets together and you won't be able to choose between hot and cold water.

Sorry if my earlier posts were unclear.

Take 2: Pot theory -- from the top.

Looking at the diagram below, You see the zig-zag (resistor) and an arrow (wiper).

As you turn the pot, the wiper moves up and down the resistor.

When it moves up, there are less zig-zags (lower resistance) between 1 and 2, and more zig-zags (higher resistance) between 2 and 3.

The resistance from 1 to 3 is constant, no matter where the wiper is at.
[/theory]

Connect pot tab 1 wire to 1down. Your 1st picture, upper right - 6th terminal from the right.

Connect pot tab 2 wire to 1up. Your 1st picture, upper right - 5th terminal from the right.

Connect pot tab 3 wire to ground. Your 1st picture, upper right - last terminal on right.


If this works, but it is backward, swap the wires for 1 and 3.


Scott

P.S. Based on the wire colors in your picture 2, I'd guess that red is 1, green is 2, and black is 3. Ignore this guess if you can see which tab they are actually connected to.

[AndyWarne]

Rather than check resistance its better to use the meter to test voltage. The voltage on the center contact of each pot (the yellow wires in the picture) should vary between 0 and 5 volts when the pot is turned.

As mentioned, it shoudl show up as 2 game controller devices, player 1 and 2.

Andy

[PL1]

Thanks for the info, Andy.

I just suggested the resistance check to verify that he knew for sure which wires were on 1 and 3.

Once he knows that, your method is best.


Scott

[mytymaus007]

1. does it matter on the potentiometer what the tabs are connectted to basically from diagram the 1st tab and the last tab are both hooked to the ground from 1stplayer to 2nd player on diagram so from diagram im not sure which is the ground. Still need to get meter to read but its a brand new pedal from HAPP.

If the first and last tabs on a pot are hooked to ground, it will never work.  It will only read ground.

Also, on the encoder the inputs aren't ground, they are switched "on" when ground is connected, completing the circuit and allowing current to flow. In plumbing terms, inputs are faucets, ground is the drain.  Hook your drains together(daisy chain ground), no problem.  Hook your faucets together and you won't be able to choose between hot and cold water.

Sorry if my earlier posts were unclear.

Take 2: Pot theory -- from the top.

Looking at the diagram below, You see the zig-zag (resistor) and an arrow (wiper).

As you turn the pot, the wiper moves up and down the resistor.

When it moves up, there are less zig-zags (lower resistance) between 1 and 2, and more zig-zags (higher resistance) between 2 and 3.

The resistance from 1 to 3 is constant, no matter where the wiper is at.
[/theory]

Connect pot tab 1 wire to 1down. Your 1st picture, upper right - 6th terminal from the right.

Connect pot tab 2 wire to 1up. Your 1st picture, upper right - 5th terminal from the right.

Connect pot tab 3 wire to ground. Your 1st picture, upper right - last terminal on right.


If this works, but it is backward, swap the wires for 1 and 3.


Scott

P.S. Based on the wire colors in your picture 2, I'd guess that red is 1, green is 2, and black is 3. Ignore this guess if you can see which tab they are actually connected to.

ok got it hooked up as you said! I then go into the control settings. I see the apac 1 and 2 players. i go to properties i see the plus symbol sitting at the top middle of the box it will center when i calibrate but it doesnt move up and down which i think it should!!. I tried switching the wires like you said and the olny thing it does it make the plus start at the bottom middle of the square!!

[PL1]

ok got it hooked up as you said! I then go into the control settings. I see the apac 1 and 2 players. i go to properties i see the plus symbol sitting at the top middle of the box it will center when i calibrate but it doesnt move up and down which i think it should!!. I tried switching the wires like you said and the olny thing it does it make the plus start at the bottom middle of the square!!

Sounds like this is how you first wired then changed it.

Term.  Start    Try #2
1down Red      Black
1up     Green   Green
Gnd     Black    Red
Result  Top       Bottom

If you connected them like this and got these results, one of these two configurations should get it moving:

Term.  Try#3    Try #4   
1down Red       Black
1up     Black     Red
Gnd     Green    Green

If you get movement, you've got the right wire on 1up, just swap the wires on 1 down and ground.


Scott

P.S. This is why I have 2 multimeters.  It sucks T-shooting without one.

[AndyWarne]

The first two configurations should work. The second two definitely wont, as they connect the sensing pin directly to 5V or GND so the crosshair will go to the top or bottom and stick there.

[PL1]

The first two configurations should work. The second two definitely wont, as they connect the sensing pin directly to 5V or GND so the crosshair will go to the top or bottom and stick there.

I agree, Andy, but he said he hooked it up like 1 and 2, and got the results you predicted for 3 and 4.  I figured that maybe he got pedals with wire colors hooked to the wrong pot lead.  It can happen to the best.

Case in point, when I got my U-Trak, two wires were swapped at the connector.  Easy mistake for whoever assembled it since the colors were so close.  Swapped wires and have been happy ever since.


Scott

[mytymaus007]

every senario that i try all it does is start in middle then if i press pedal it moves up then gets stuck and if i change wires then it moves down and gets stuck. if i calibrate it goes to the middle and gets stuck. once it set correctly the plus should move up and down when i press the pedal right? i also have i belive its a resistor that did come with the a-pac its a little white square with two wires off it. I dont see it in the picture it has a 15 and a 63 on it. I tried that also one wire in the gnd and one in the 1up terminal. Do i need anything with the +5 terminal on the a-pac. i have it on mine but dont see it on the a-pac picture above not sure. im goin to get a meter right now! this is ridiculous!

[PL1]

Whoa!  Just to confirm.  You connected everything exactly like this and got these results.

Term.  Try#1   Try #2
1down Red      Black
1up     Green   Green
Gnd     Black    Red
Result  Top       Bottom

Then you tried configurations #3 and #4 and it still didn't work?

Pardon what probably sounds like a stupid question, but I gotta ask -- Are you sure you have potentiometer pedals? Happ makes them with microswitches, too.  I thought we were looking at the wires from one pedal, but if you have 2 pedals and there are only 3 wires total, it sounds like 2 microswitches and a common ground. If there are a total of 6 wires, you've got pots and it sounds like it's time to do a little T-shooting 101.


To isolate and check potentiometer pedals:

1. Disconnect the pedal wires from the A-Pac.

2. Set the meter to Ohms.  If it's not an auto-ranging meter, select the range that includes 5k ohms.

3. Connect the meter leads to the red and green pedal wires.  As you press the pedal, the reading should change accordingly. If it does, go to step 4. -- If not, red and green might be 1 and 3. Proceed to step 4.

4. Connect the meter leads to the green and black pedal wires.  As you press the pedal, the reading should change accordingly. If it does, go to step 5. -- If only step 4 doesn't cause change, then green and black might be 1 and 3. -- If steps 3 and 4 both didn't cause the resistance to change. there is something very wrong.

5. Connect the meter leads to the red and black pedal wires.  As you press the pedal, the resistance shouldn't change. -- If resistance is steady, then red + black are 1 + 3, green is definitely 2, and the pedals seem to be wired correctly.

Let us know how it works and what range of readings you get.


Scott

P.S. Not sure what that "white square" thing is.

When you talk about it getting stuck, do you mean that when you press the pedal, the indicator moves incrementally upward with the press of the pedal until it hits the top, and when you release the pedal completely it stays at the top?

[AndyWarne]

every senario that i try all it does is start in middle then if i press pedal it moves up then gets stuck and if i change wires then it moves down and gets stuck. if i calibrate it goes to the middle and gets stuck. once it set correctly the plus should move up and down when i press the pedal right? i also have i belive its a resistor that did come with the a-pac its a little white square with two wires off it. I dont see it in the picture it has a 15 and a 63 on it. I tried that also one wire in the gnd and one in the 1up terminal. Do i need anything with the +5 terminal on the a-pac. i have it on mine but dont see it on the a-pac picture above not sure. im goin to get a meter right now! this is ridiculous!

It sounds like you might have a version of the A-PAC which we discontinued over 2 years ago. If so, most of the info here will be incorrect unfortunately. Can you drop me an email andy@ultimarc.com and we can resolve this.

[mytymaus007]

Thanks for all your tech support I should of save the whole weekend by just buying a multimter before I posted. It turned out to be a bad POT. Who new figured it wasnt because it was brand new! Some new things are dfective from factory thank to HAPP their sending a new POT! GO HAPP!

[PL1]

Thanks for all your tech support I should of save the whole weekend by just buying a multimter before I posted. It turned out to be a bad POT. Who new figured it wasnt because it was brand new! Some new things are dfective from factory thank to HAPP their sending a new POT! GO HAPP!

So it was just a bad pot, or was having a discontinued version of the board part of it?


Scott

[Mysterioii]

So Andy, the pins on the board labelled 1DOWN, 1LEFT, 2DOWN and 2LEFT are really +5V supplies and 1UP, 1RIGHT, 2UP and 2RIGHT are sense lines correct?  I had seen a thread that used that image a few weeks ago and the labels confused me, since I do understand how pots work.

Just a little more discussion for anyone who might be interested, but when you connect one fixed leg of a pot to ground and the other to some voltage, then measure the voltage at the wiping arm, it's essentially a variable voltage divider.  Adjust it fully one way and you'll hit the ground rail, adjust it fully the other way and you'll hit whatever your input voltage is, and at any other point along the way it'll be some voltage in between as Andy says.  Which is why it confuses me a little when people say "make sure you're using a replacement pot with the exact same resistance"...   It really shouldn't matter all that much so long as there's no additional load resistance between the supply and the high rail of the pot and you don't pick one with such a low resistance that your supply can't handle the current required to drop the specified voltage across it.  In general if you connect a 5V supply to one side of a 1K pot or a 10K pot or a 1M pot and the other side to ground, then if the wiper arm is perfectly centered all three will read 2.5V at the wiper.

[BadMouth]

Which is why it confuses me a little when people say "make sure you're using a replacement pot with the exact same resistance"...   It really shouldn't matter all that much so long as there's no additional load resistance between the supply and the high rail of the pot and you don't pick one with such a low resistance that your supply can't handle the current required to drop the specified voltage across it.

Depends on the interface.  Gameports for example, do measure resistance (0-100k).
Most modern gamepads use 10k pots and have no calibration. 5k is center.

[Mysterioii]

Ah, that explains that.  Thanks for the info!  Not sure why that method would be preferred over just measuring a voltage with an analog input but I'll take your word for it.

[AndyWarne]

So Andy, the pins on the board labelled 1DOWN, 1LEFT, 2DOWN and 2LEFT are really +5V supplies and 1UP, 1RIGHT, 2UP and 2RIGHT are sense lines correct?  I had seen a thread that used that image a few weeks ago and the labels confused me, since I do understand how pots work.

Just a little more discussion for anyone who might be interested, but when you connect one fixed leg of a pot to ground and the other to some voltage, then measure the voltage at the wiping arm, it's essentially a variable voltage divider.  Adjust it fully one way and you'll hit the ground rail, adjust it fully the other way and you'll hit whatever your input voltage is, and at any other point along the way it'll be some voltage in between as Andy says.  Which is why it confuses me a little when people say "make sure you're using a replacement pot with the exact same resistance"...   It really shouldn't matter all that much so long as there's no additional load resistance between the supply and the high rail of the pot and you don't pick one with such a low resistance that your supply can't handle the current required to drop the specified voltage across it.  In general if you connect a 5V supply to one side of a 1K pot or a 10K pot or a 1M pot and the other side to ground, then if the wiper arm is perfectly centered all three will read 2.5V at the wiper.

Thats all correct.
The A-PAC operates in the way you describe if it detects that pots are connected, at power up. If it does not detect pots, the directional inputs become switch inputs, so closing attached switches will cause the analog pointer to move right across in the direction of the input.

[mytymaus007]

Thanks for all your tech support I should of save the whole weekend by just buying a multimter before I posted. It turned out to be a bad POT. Who new figured it wasnt because it was brand new! Some new things are dfective from factory thank to HAPP their sending a new POT! GO HAPP!

So it was just a bad pot, or was having a discontinued version of the board part of it?


Scott

it was a bad pot, im waiting for HAPP to send me a new pot so i can hook everything up

[mytymaus007]

From Ultimarc's A-Pac page.

Details and FAQ on link. Hope this helps.


Scott

Edit: If you wire it like the diagram above and it's working backward, swap wires 1 and 3. (power and ground, I believe) This should fix it without editing every game's configuration, since it will swap one end of the whole resistor for the other.

Ok here's the update put in the new pot from happ and followed the a-PAC diagram and bamm easy as that well actually since its a pedal I used the up and down instead of left right terminal otherwise works great