Sinistar Cabinet Problems

[BewareILive]

I recently bought a broken Sinistar machine, and I am trying to figure out what is wrong with it.

When I turn it on, the monitor does turn on and is just a white screen. No other lights (marquee or button) work, and none of the LED light up on the ROM boards.

Any suggestions?

[lanman31337]

That's the machine's way of saying "Run Coward".  All jokes aside, I'm not sure where to start, sorry, maybe a bad power supply?

[alfonzotan]

That's the machine's way of saying "Run Coward".  All jokes aside, I'm not sure where to start, sorry, maybe a bad power supply?

That'd be my first guess, too.  Here's an outfit that advertises power supply rebuild kits for Williams games (disclaimer: I know absolutely nothing about this company or their products; it was just the first link that came up on Google):

http://www.arcadesolution.com/wmpsrebuild.html

[BewareILive]

That's the machine's way of saying "Run Coward".  All jokes aside, I'm not sure where to start, sorry, maybe a bad power supply?

That'd be my first guess, too.  Here's an outfit that advertises power supply rebuild kits for Williams games (disclaimer: I know absolutely nothing about this company or their products; it was just the first link that came up on Google):

http://www.arcadesolution.com/wmpsrebuild.html

I actually had some parts from a Stargate machine, and I used the power supply from that. Now the same thing happens, except I can hear a hum from the speakers and the "LED 3" light is on. Where can I go from here?

Edit: Actually both LED 1 and LED 3 are lit up.

[BewareILive]

So I removed one of the ROMs that looked to be rusted, that was apparently why LED 1 was on, because now only LED 3 is shown.

According to the Sinistar manual, when LED 3 is on "3 MEANS CMOS RAM ERROR."

"(1)   Check pin 22 of CMOS RAM for +3.2VDC minimum. If present, replace CMOS chip 1C. If absent replace AA alkaline cells.
(2)   With new alkaline cells, check for +3.8v DC. If still absent, replace diodes D9 and D10.
(3)   Upon power-up and re-entry into diagnostics if CMOS error message persists, check CMOS RAM memory protect and address decoding circuits with a logic probe."

I really don't know what "pin 22 of CMOS RAM" is or how to check it. I've searched the manual and they don't mention it often, or show a picture.

[EightBySix]

It's obviously disabled itself to protect you. Sinistar is much to scary to play... True story.

[Los Abrazos Rotos]

As soon as you touch pin 22 you're gonna hear that roar... Sinistars gonna getcha...

[boardjunkie]

It prolly needs a decent going over. If you have no experience in electronic/arcade machine repair, I would suggest leaving it to a pro. You may cause more damage screwing with it. Then it will cost that much more to have it professionally repaired.

[BewareILive]

It prolly needs a decent going over. If you have no experience in electronic/arcade machine repair, I would suggest leaving it to a pro. You may cause more damage screwing with it. Then it will cost that much more to have it professionally repaired.

Do you know what might be causing it? And I've fixed some machines before, I know what not to mess with at least.

[boardjunkie]

It could be anything....the game is 30 years old. The power supply (and/or associated connectors) can (and will) go flaky and cause damage to the 4116 rams. The rom board cable is known to cause problems. Chip sockets may need to be replaced and chip pins cleaned. There is a "tune up" procedure I go thru before even trying to shoot down a problem. Saves headaches down the road.

Since you don't seem to be able to interpret the service manual procedure for checking standby voltage on the cmos ram, that says to me you're not that familiar with the procedure for t-shooting problems with old games.

So....did you clean the battery terminals and install new AA batteries on the CPU board?

http://www.mikesarcade.com/cgi-bin/spies.cgi?action=url&type=info&page=Williams-hardware.txt

[boardjunkie]

And just for the record, this board uses a different ram than the older WMS boards do. The cmos ram is a 6514 at location 1c near the cpu. See this pic:

http://www.robotron-2084.co.uk/jpegs/robycpunvramsocket.jpg

The socket shows where the chip is. There is no pin 22 since this is an 18 pin package. Pin 18 is VCC/stby.

Anyway....just install new batteries (clean the contacts first), power it up until it shows the cmos error, then either press the advance switch or turn it off for a few seconds and back on again. If the ram is good the error will clear and you should get the rug pattern while it goes thru the self test.

[BewareILive]

And just for the record, this board uses a different ram than the older WMS boards do. The cmos ram is a 6514 at location 1c near the cpu. See this pic:

http://www.robotron-2084.co.uk/jpegs/robycpunvramsocket.jpg

The socket shows where the chip is. There is no pin 22 since this is an 18 pin package. Pin 18 is VCC/stby.

Anyway....just install new batteries (clean the contacts first), power it up until it shows the cmos error, then either press the advance switch or turn it off for a few seconds and back on again. If the ram is good the error will clear and you should get the rug pattern while it goes thru the self test.

I did clean the contacts and install new batteries, it didn't seem to make a difference. One of the chips on the ROM board seems to be rusted, would that need to be replaced?

[lanman31337]

Any pics of your board by chance? 

[BewareILive]

Any pics of your board by chance?  

Only the LED 3 lights up, as shown in the first picture here.

Also, I had just recently unplugged the part below the power supply. It has the same effects if it is plugged in, I just forgot to do that.

[BewareILive]

Any pics of your board by chance? 

[BewareILive]

Any pics of your board by chance? 

Is that what you need? These were all taken when the machine is on.

[BewareILive]

Bump

[RetroACTIVE]

Any pics of your board by chance?  

Only the LED 3 lights up, as shown in the first picture here.

Also, I had just recently unplugged the part below the power supply. It has the same effects if it is plugged in, I just forgot to do that.

All three of those LEDs should be lit... did you check the fuses?  Take each fuse out and use use a multi-meter to check them for continuity.

[JODY]

Williams machines often have bad connectors.  Are there any connectors that are burnt or broken?  By broken, I mean an individual wire may be loose or broken with a connector.  The ones going to the power supply board are especially bad at doing this.  I have a Sinistar with one bad now.  Have not gotten around to replacing it yet.  Also, had a ground wire go bad within a connector on a Joust machine.  There is a lot more detailed information on the KLOV site.  You would need to check voltages on the power supply board, check voltages going to the RAM chips, various connectors, etc.  The ribbon cable going to the ROM board also goes bad on these. 

[boardjunkie]

Now just why do my posts keep disappearing? My recommendation to replace the electrolytic caps on the regulator board is *very* valid. The 3 supply voltages need to appear at the ram banks in a specific order. With caps on the way out on the reg pcb, the order they "come up" at can get altered and cause all kinds of goofy errors.

Do this now, or you can be chasing yer tail for a long time trying to track down a fault that doesn't exist.

[JODY]

Just got my Joust working yesterday.  At times it would not come on.  Sometimes the LED would light up but not always.  When it would, there might be RAM errors or it might play awhile then get real flaky.  Sometimes it would restart.  Reset the connectors on the power supply and regulator board and it has worked fine since.  The connectors do need to be replaced...but just another example of the connector issues with these.  The connectors were not meant to last more than a few years.

[boardjunkie]

This *can* help matters, but if any pin(s) have been overheated, they lose tension and don't make good contact. The only cure is to replace *both* sides of the header connector. The socket side is damaged, and the plating on the pin side will go high resistance from the plating having been burned off.

These 30 year old games normally need extensive attention to get them back up to 100% reliability. The above poster is right on in saying that they were not intended to last this long. Connectors, chip sockets, and especially electrolytic capacitors have a very finite life expectancy and the game won't run correctly until these issues have been inspected and action taken. Chip sockets are often a weak spot since the mfgr's used whatever they could get for the best price in the qty needed. Atari made the mistake of using gold plated sockets with regular tin plate chips and this causes problems down the road because of the reaction between the dissimilar metals and the oxide that forms.

Games like this that use 4116 ram are especially picky about the condition of the pwr supply. Ripple and out of sequence voltages causes problems booting and/or damage to the ram itself.

[BewareILive]

I just got around to working on the Sinistar cabinet again.

I recently replaced the fuses and got it to work for about 3 seconds, I got the rug pattern, then the "Initial Tests Indicate All Systems Go" screen, then more of the rug pattern, and that was it. After a few minutes, I turned it off and realized one of the fuses had burnt out, so I tried another and the same thing happened, although I never see anything except the rug pattern anymore.

All three LED lights are on. I've tried several different variation of fuses, there were a few different variations that said worked, but none have. The ROM board flashes 0-1-3 every time I turn it on.

Anyone have any suggestions from here?

The fuse pattern I last used was-

F1 - 1A
F2 - 5A
F3 - 4A
F4 - 7A
F5 - 7A

It's always the  F4 fuse that burns out.

[JODY]

Are you using slow blow or fast blow fuses?  Read more here:  http://www.coinop.org/repair/WilliamsPSU.aspx

As to the LED errors, make sure power is correct which includes fixing the fuse issue.   Then, if issues remain, check power to RAM chips.  May need to replace the 40 pin ribbon cable and some board connectors.  Issues could also be caused by bad solder connections on the board connector headers.

If it gets over your head, there is a guy on KLOV that used to work for Williams that repairs Williams boards and power supplies.  He does good work at very reasonable rates.

 

[opt2not]

Yeah you have power problems. Common for all WMS games after this long.

Grab the manual: http://arcarc.xmission.com/PDF_Arcade_Williams/Sinistar_Instruction_Manual_(16-3004-101)_Feb_1983.pdf
And the schematics/drawing set: http://arcarc.xmission.com/PDF_Arcade_Williams/Sinistar_Drawing_Set_(16P-3004-103_Feb_1983).pdf   So you're a bit familiar with the hardware.

Get a multi-meter, and start probing the power lines and check your 5v line coming out of the PS board (RJ2). 

Your PS board can use a rebuild, seeing that you still have all the original caps and components on there.

If you're somewhat familiar with a soldering iron, this'll be a cake-walk...if not, you might want to get someone to rebuild it for you.  Dokert and YellowDog at KLOV are Williams experts.

If you're a DIY guy, get yourself the WMS Power Supply Deluxe Rebuild kit from bobroberts. I'd "shotgun it" and replaced all the caps, the regulating IC's + sockets, the Bridge Rectifier....etc, with new ones. Also flip the PS board over and check for any damage, or cold-sockets (solder points with cracks, or holes in them) and either replace the connection headers or re-flow the cold-joints.  Probably best to just replace them with new ones.  The Connectors to those headers could probably use a replacing too.
Also check and re-flow the solder on the Fuse holders too, and be sure to squeeze the clamps so they make absolute contact with the fuses.

Williams boards are very finicky when it comes to power voltage, but the best thing you can do is get that original PS Board nice and healthy first...that'll probably fix most of the issues, if not all...