Analog arcade joystick to xbox 360, can it be done?

[HaRuMaN]

I have no idea of the range of resistance on the triggers... 

I always hack them to digital.

[BadMouth]

The alps joystick came in today.  The hack works as expected, but there are a couple issues that might prevent this particular joystick from being a good choice.

For Crossbred900 in particular, the small size might be an issue.
The joystick handle is about 14mm in diameter and 40mm from the top of the handle to the joystick base.
The handle does unscrew from the joystick shaft, but the threads that it goes onto are pretty small.
I guess the sanwa tops could be used if an adapter was machined for them.


The other issue is that there is a fair amount of play with the joystick centered, to the point that the springs do not push it all the way back to center.  This is less of an issue on a PC with emulators because you can set a deadzone.  I don't know how much of a deadzone an Xbox360 allows for.  I will test this out on an Xbox 360, but I only know a couple people who own one and it will probably be after Thanksgiving before I can hit them up for assistance.  I tested the little original pots out of the controller to make sure that there was no built in dead zone, but there was not.  They are just plain pots.

The inside of the Alps joystick:


For anyone else doing this hack, the joystick and button that is depressed when the joystick is pressed down are one unit and both need to be desoldered before trying to remove it.


Here is some video of it working.  You can see where the X axis has issues returning all the way to center.
Toward the end, I show how much play there is in the stick when it's centered.


So where we stand is that an analog joystick using 10k pots does work, but strong centering is probably going to be important.
I'm going to go ahead and hack the rest of the controller to barrier strips and hopefully not ruin it. 
When I get access to an xbox 360, I'll turn the pots by hand and see how much of a deadzone the xbox is expecting.

Keep an eye out for other possible joysticks.  They don't have to be 10k.  We can swap 10k pots in.
It would be nice to find a used set of Happ analog sticks.  I don't know if I've ever seen a used one.
Does anyone know if the bat-top joystick shaft from the analog Happ will drop in a Happ flight stick?

[BadMouth]

This is probably equivalent to all the soldering I've done in my life up to this point. 
I read HaRuMaN's tuturial minutes before starting and when I read no common ground, I was like 
Absolutely every control is tapped.  All three wires are run for each trigger to give the option of analog or digital.

Only issue I had was those tiny friggin spots for the D-Pad.  The Up wire lifted somehow when I was dousing everything in hot glue and I never could find another piece of copper to solder to.  Luckily there was a solder point on the other side of the board that worked.

Experience Level +1
Solder Ability +5

Might even ask for a decent soldering iron for Christmas to replace my $5 harbor freight one.
I bought a $13 de-soldering iron from radioshack before starting on this and used it to remove the components.
I was amazed at how well it worked!





Still looking analog arcade sticks if anyone has some gathering dust.

[rCadeGaming]

Looks nice.  Hot glue is a nice touch, won't hurt to cover the rest of your solder points with it for strain relief.

Is that an official 360 controller?  It would be a lot easier if you go common ground.  WWE Brawl Pads are cheap, common ground and lag-free, but they're not analog.  Not sure if there's an easier option for this specific application.  For 360, I've only opened up Brawl Pads myself.

For soldering irons, as long as you can get enough controllable heat you should be alright.  Automatic temp irons can be easier for beginners but they're more expensive.  With a power control knob, you just have to get a feel for it, but the adjustability may come in handy.  The biggest upgrade you can get for your iron is a nice fine point conical tip, many come with screwdriver-like tips that aren't meant for this kind of work.  I'm using Weller ST7 tips atm.  Highly recommended, or similar if they won't fit your iron.  Small diameter rosin-core solder and the appropriate use of flux is helpful too.

[BadMouth]

I wanted to take the pic before covering everything in glue. 

It's an official microsoft xbox controller.
I guess a 3rd party one might have better solder points, but I'd have to buy it to find out.

[rCadeGaming]

The brawl pad has big solder points separate from the button contacts, almost like it's meant to be hacked.  The biggest help would be that it's common ground though.  I'd see if you could find something analog like that.  It's hard to use multiple PCB's if they're not common ground.

[NickG]

I read somewhere that the cg pads have analog axes ranges of 0-1.5v with .75v when centered (Following method is similar for other pads not exceeding 5v.)  Conditioning signals from joysticks with greater signal range should be as simple as an inline pot and pot across the signal to divide the voltage.   For example, a U360 gives 0-5v with 2.5v centered in output mode, (if I recall correctly); so you could condition the signal with inline pot set to 5ohm, and ref pot set to 2.14ohm.     

[BadMouth]

I read somewhere that the cg pads have analog axes ranges of 0-1.5v with .75v when centered (Following method is similar for other pads not exceeding 5v.)  Conditioning signals from joysticks with greater signal range should be as simple as an inline pot and pot across the signal to divide the voltage.   For example, a U360 gives 0-5v with 2.5v centered in output mode, (if I recall correctly); so you could condition the signal with inline pot set to 5ohm, and ref pot set to 2.14ohm.     

I had to look up what a cg pad was.  Apparently some were common ground (cg), some weren't.  I didn't know that.
I did notice that the contacts on the D-Pad were different than what was in HaRuMaN's tutorial.
Found this guide to wireless controllers that may be helpful to others (mine doesn't resemble any of them).
http://www.se7ensins.com/forums/threads/how-to-tell-what-type-of-xbox-360-wireless-controller-board-you-have.407331/

All the dividing the voltage stuff is a bit over my head.
I'm going to hold out for pot based analog arcade sticks for a while.

[HaRuMaN]

When I wrote that thread, there weren't any common ground M$ controllers yet.  They came out later.

[SORHP]

Bumping this old thread to see if anyone has successfully wired in 2 analog joys to the Xbox 360 pad, I want to make a geometry wars cab, really need this

[ShadeValryn]

Well what I've done, and what you could do, is just wire Ultrastik 360s up and use them on a PC version of the game.  I'm making my quad arcade for games like smash bros, console games, and geometry wars.  Basically games that require analog movement to get the full experience.

[SORHP]

Geometry wars cannot read 2 u360s, and the u360 cannot be wired up to an xbox 360 pad

[ShadeValryn]

Geometry wars cannot read 2 u360s, and the u360 cannot be wired up to an xbox 360 pad

Using X360CE or Xpadder or some other program, I'm sure you can combine the axis of two gamepads for one virtual one.  But no the U360 isn't meant to be wired into a 360 pad.  I'm just saying I use 4 of them for things like Dolphin, PJ64, Castle Crashers, stuff like that.

[BadMouth]

Bumping this old thread to see if anyone has successfully wired in 2 analog joys to the Xbox 360 pad, I want to make a geometry wars cab, really need this

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,128941.0.html

short version:
Use any analog joysticks with at least 10k pots.  5k arcade pots didn't work very well.
Happ sells a "PC" analog joystick with 100k pots.  It should work great, but is expensive.
You can't just swap in standard off-the-shelf pots.  The pots made for joysticks cover their full range over a shorter throw.

The biggest obstacle is finding decent analog joysticks.

[BadMouth]

After looking at the other Geometry Wars thread, I think your best bet is to pick up a pair of used trigger sticks from a cyber sled or some other dual analog arcade game and use an ultimarc UHID to interface them.  It will show up as a direct input controller, but then you can use X360CE to make it show up as an xbox360 controller.  (an APAC will show up as 2 separate controllers which would complicate things)

I actually have a cyber sled CP hacked to a cheap Logitech controller.
It works, but the analog motion on screen isn't as smooth as it should be.  It's like it moves in steps.
This is because I'm only using a small portion of the rotational range of the cheap $3 radio shack pots I swapped in.
(then relied on joystick calibration in the emulators to adjust the limits).

I'd consider parting with it, but it weighs a ton.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,131906.msg1353960.html#msg1353960


EDIT: On a side note, I'm impressed with my own soldering in the above x360 pad hack pics given that I said that I was using a cheap harbor freight soldering iron.  I've since moved on to a Hakko and I'm never going back. 

[BadMouth]

There are a bunch of joysticks on ebay listed under "joystick potentiometer" if anyone is interested.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR2.TRC1.A0.H0.Xjoystick+potentiometer.TRS0&_nkw=joystick+potentiometer&_sacat=0


The bat on top is probably about the same size as the ALP joysticks from earlier in this thread.
The base looks a bit nicer and has a physical adjustment for centering which would be helpful with xbox360. 
No idea if the pots from this could be transplanted.

Keep in mind this is still tiny in comparison to a real analog arcade stick, maybe even small enough to be used in RC controllers.

[SORHP]

Cool, I'm researching as much as I can, I really want my robotron to look stock, but function like an xbox360 controller

[crossbred900]

There are a bunch of joysticks on ebay listed under "joystick potentiometer" if anyone is interested.

The bat on top is probably about the same size as the ALP joysticks from earlier in this thread.
The base looks a bit nicer and has a physical adjustment for centering which would be helpful with xbox360. 
No idea if the pots from this could be transplanted.

Keep in mind this is still tiny in comparison to a real analog arcade stick, maybe even small enough to be used in RC controllers.

I'd love to see how one of these work out if you try one. I would love to eventually replace my ALPs with something more centered and sturdy.

[SORHP]

5 years later!!!... 

I purchased 2 Naomi analog sticks from japan (I think they’re Naomi, because they came on a control panel that’s for a naomi baseball game). Tonight I am attempting to have these work with an Xbox 360 controller PCB, this PCB is not a common ground PCB, I am wiring directly to the potentiometer pads

[pharmtech78]

5 years later!!!... 

I purchased 2 Naomi analog sticks from japan (I think they’re Naomi, because they came on a control panel that’s for a naomi baseball game). Tonight I am attempting to have these work with an Xbox 360 controller PCB, this PCB is not a common ground PCB, I am wiring directly to the potentiometer pads

How did this end up working? I'm curious because i want to do a geometry wars cabinet as well.

[SORHP]

5 years later!!!... 

I purchased 2 Naomi analog sticks from japan (I think they’re Naomi, because they came on a control panel that’s for a naomi baseball game). Tonight I am attempting to have these work with an Xbox 360 controller PCB, this PCB is not a common ground PCB, I am wiring directly to the potentiometer pads

How did this end up working? I'm curious because i want to do a geometry wars cabinet as well.

You need a device called Cronus to go between the hacked 360 pad and the xbox360, the Cronus can be programmed to adjust sensitivity of the sticks that needs to be done to achieve stability with the analog joysticks

[baritonomarchetto]

Just to dig this topic out of the grave even more , I want to inform you that a smart guy calle Dave Madison has developed a library to turn a cheap arduino leonardo into a Xinput controller (with custom firmware ).
I have used it to realize a racing cab interface (capable of trigger rumble motors too) and must say that it works great.

Here is a tutorial he wrote:
https://www.partsnotincluded.com/arduino-xinput-library/

Only limit (which could be a show stopper for someone) is that this wont work on a regular xbox, but PC.

[SORHP]

Just to dig this topic out of the grave even more , I want to inform you that a smart guy calle Dave Madison has developed a library to turn a cheap arduino leonardo into a Xinput controller (with custom firmware ).
I have used it to realize a racing cab interface (capable of trigger rumble motors too) and must say that it works great.

Here is a tutorial he wrote:
https://www.partsnotincluded.com/arduino-xinput-library/

Only limit (which could be a show stopper for someone) is that this wont work on a regular xbox, but PC.

Thank you, I’ll be possibly using this

[SORHP]

Here’s my robotron cab

[pharmtech78]

5 years later!!!... 

I purchased 2 Naomi analog sticks from japan (I think they’re Naomi, because they came on a control panel that’s for a naomi baseball game). Tonight I am attempting to have these work with an Xbox 360 controller PCB, this PCB is not a common ground PCB, I am wiring directly to the potentiometer pads

How did this end up working? I'm curious because i want to do a geometry wars cabinet as well.

You need a device called Cronus to go between the hacked 360 pad and the xbox360, the Cronus can be programmed to adjust sensitivity of the sticks that needs to be done to achieve stability with the analog joysticks

Thanks for that info. Any chance you can post pics of your wiring from the joystick to the Xbox 360 pcb? I have a pair of these joystick and want to make sure I get the wiring correct.

[SORHP]

5 years later!!!... 

I purchased 2 Naomi analog sticks from japan (I think they’re Naomi, because they came on a control panel that’s for a naomi baseball game). Tonight I am attempting to have these work with an Xbox 360 controller PCB, this PCB is not a common ground PCB, I am wiring directly to the potentiometer pads

How did this end up working? I'm curious because i want to do a geometry wars cabinet as well.

You need a device called Cronus to go between the hacked 360 pad and the xbox360, the Cronus can be programmed to adjust sensitivity of the sticks that needs to be done to achieve stability with the analog joysticks

Thanks for that info. Any chance you can post pics of your wiring from the joystick to the Xbox 360 pcb? I have a pair of these joystick and want to make sure I get the wiring correct.

I don’t have pics of the final wiring, but it’s simple, the pots have a ground , a positive and negative, the ground is in the center on the pots on the controller and the pots on the joy sticks

[PL1]

I don’t have pics of the final wiring, but it’s simple, the pots have a ground , a positive and negative, the ground is in the center on the pots on the controller and the pots on the joy sticks

Umm . . . not quite.

There's a better description of how potentiometers work at http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Analog_Encoders#How_a_potentiometer_provides_the_voltage_for_an_analog_encoder_to_measure.


Scott

[SORHP]

I don’t have pics of the final wiring, but it’s simple, the pots have a ground , a positive and negative, the ground is in the center on the pots on the controller and the pots on the joy sticks

Umm . . . not quite.

There's a better description of how potentiometers work at http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Analog_Encoders#How_a_potentiometer_provides_the_voltage_for_an_analog_encoder_to_measure.


Scott

Ok, that’s great info

But I did get it working

[PL1]

But I did get it working

Glad you did and I hope that others can do the same.   

I just didn't want anyone to get confused when you said that the center tab of a potentiometer was "ground".


Scott

[SORHP]

Oh yes, much appreciated, I’m always learning as well