noob joystick/encoder question

[SammyLJ]

Hey everyone
long ago I used emulators to play my favorite nes games on my pc but I had never thought of building my own cabinet. I stumbled upon this website while searching for info about an arcade auction in my area. Now that I have the space and funds I have decided to build my own mame cabinet. I have pretty much figured it all out but I do have a few lingering questions.
My plan is to build a 4 player cabinet with a trackball. My friends are over often and the 4 player games i used to play in the arcade appeal to me like tmnt, xmen, simpsons etc. The trackball is specifically for Golden Tee. Player one and two will have 6 buttons for Marvel vs capcom, players 3 and 4 will have 4 buttons. The trackball will have the 3 Golden Tee buttons. My CP will have the 4 start buttons but what else do I need to navigate the front end?

Does a 4/8 switch joystick have 4 micro switches or 8?

how many encoders will I need, will one do everything I need?

I would like to have a coin door that accepts tokens as credits, I assume these connect to 2 switches which in turn connect to the encoder. Is this correct? How difficult is this to do or can i just buy a setup that takes the tokens?

thanks for all the help, I have enjoyed reading the forum for the last few weeks to gather all my info

[BadMouth]

Either joystick has 4 switches, but an 8-way is allowed to trip 2 of them at once when pushed into a corner.

Advice for newbs building 4-player CPs:

There are no 4 player games in MAME that use more than 3 buttons, so it's pointless to have more than 3 buttons for players 3 and 4 unless you plan to use them for console emulators (N64 or Dreamcast).  The only arcade game that is an exception is Guilty Gear Isuka, but it's not playable in MAME (it is on Demul).

Nearly all 4 player arcade games had the sticks of player 3 and 4 oriented so that "UP" was toward the monitor.
In other words, you wouldn't push up in relation to your body, but in relation to your character.
This sounds screwy, but most people intuitively move the joystick like this and get confused when it's not done this way.
Notice where "UP" is on this joystick even though the player stands on the side:


Sometimes you can squeak by with encoders that handle less inputs, but for something like this, why risk it?
You might want to add more buttons later.
I'd recommend something like a LONO (72 Inputs)

https://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/en/search?orderby=position&orderway=desc&search_query=lono

or I-PAC 4 (56 Inputs)

http://www.ultimarc.com/ipac1.html

EDIT: Just to clarify, you'll also need a separate interface for the Trackball (or buy one that's USB).

[BadMouth]

Player one and two will have 6 buttons for Marvel vs capcom, players 3 and 4 will have 4 buttons. The trackball will have the 3 Golden Tee buttons. My CP will have the 4 start buttons but what else do I need to navigate the front end?

I'm fairly sure that the Golden Tee games that are playable in MAME are too old to have the backspin button if that's the 3rd button you're referring to.
If it's the Start button you are referring to, just use player 1 start.  
Some might knock you for having the left/right buttons when you could use other buttons on the CP, but I'd prefer having them, especially since you're adding a trackball specifically for that game.  I think flush mount triangular buttons would be cool for there, but it's your CP.

You don't really need anything else to navigate the front end.  The joystick and buttons you're using for the games can do that.
 I like having an exit button and that's about it.  Some people like having pause.

I would like to have a coin door that accepts tokens as credits, I assume these connect to 2 switches which in turn connect to the encoder. Is this correct? How difficult is this to do or can i just buy a setup that takes the tokens?

You can buy a coin door with coin mechs installed and just hook your encoder up to the switches already in it.
Player 3 and 4 will need coin input also, so you'll either need to buy a 4 player coin door or add a credit button for those players.
The most common method is to put a credit button next to each player's start button instead of spending money on a coin door.
It's up to you and your budget.

[BobA]

A 4/8 way switch joystick uses just 4 switches.

[SammyLJ]

thanks for the great info guys!
After a little searching, your right, no backspin button needed since i cannot find a new enough rom. I think I will leave room for one in the future.

any thoughts on the led buttons? I like the feel of the classic one but I like the look of the lit up ones... how do they play?

[BadMouth]

any thoughts on the led buttons? I like the feel of the classic one but I like the look of the lit up ones... how do they play?

Personally, I don't like light coming from anywhere but the screen and marquee (which is above you, so it's not distracting), but that's just my taste.
But I'm tied to my desk at work and bored, so here are my thoughts:

If you want the feel of classic buttons, make sure you get concave ones.
The IL translucent buttons are popular for lighting, but you'll have to install the LED yourself:
http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/en/59-il-translucent-buttons

Here's a basic tutorital of how to modify a standard button for the LED:
http://www.instructables.com/id/HackMod-a-concave-arcade-style-button/?ALLSTEPS  
I've seen another one where a small hole was drilled in each side of the button holder for the LED leg to pass through.  I'd prefer that method so it can't shift and interfere with the plunger.

GroovyGameGear has the Electric Ice buttons, but they are usually sold out:
http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=73&products_id=238

If just running them off the computer power supply so they stay on all the time, you'll need to add a resistor inline with it.
(look online for a calculator to find the appropriate one)
If you want it to turn on and off with certain games, etc, you'll need an LED controller, like a PAC-LED or LED Wiz.

For as many buttons as you plan on having, the time and expense can add up, but you might as well build what you want and not have to change it later.

I like how Nephasth did his LED buttons, but he ended up with over $6 per button in them, plus the LED controller.
(guess I can't say much, my Seimitsu buttons were $3.75 each and don't even light up    )
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=108719.120

Hopefully someone who actually has lit buttons will chime in.  

[PL1]

Here's a good LED current limiting resistor calculator: http://ledcalc.com/#calc

If you want RGB lighting for IL Translucents and plan on using an LED controller, this might work: http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/en/button-leds/100-il-lumination-rgb-5vdc-led.html

If you only want one color and always lit, the solution below works great.

I can't speak to how well the Paradise Arcade LED buttons work as player buttons, since I only use them as one color constant lit admin buttons.

I designed my portable modular CP to run off one USB connection that feeds an unpowered hub--maximum 100 mA current draw per connection.

It uses 3 Button Blaster LEDs with resistors from GGG (BB and R1), 14 LED 12V buttons from Paradise with built in current limiting resistor (LB), and an additional 11 ohm current limiting/voltage drop resistor (R2).

------------5V------------------------>
|     |    |           |     |     |    | 
BB  BB  BB       LB   LB  LB  LB (Total of 14)
|     |    |           |     |     |    | 
R1  R1  R1        -------------------->
|     |    |                    |
|     |    |                   R2
|     |    |                    |
-----------Ground--------

The left side is the trackball circuit, the right side is the buttons.

Green lines on the attached picture represent the R1 resistors--bend leads to route around LEDs. 5V and Ground wires can be attached to different holes on their respective rails to make mounting easier, if needed. I also fastened a piece of plastic on the underside to insulate the solder connections from shorting out.

This whole 17 LED + resistor configuration draws about 81 mA.

The only thing I might change about it is to use only 2 BB LEDs, since using 3 lights up my U-Trak much brighter than the Buttons.

Partial parts list:
Solderable breadboard - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0040Z6OK6/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00

5v USB Power Tap Cable - http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=78&products_id=299

ButtonBlaster LED (with built-in resistor) - http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=83&products_id=263

LED Buttons - This circuit uses 12V LEDs powered by a 5V circuit. this allows the LEDs to last longer and draw less current. http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/en/led-pushbuttons/234-led-convex-arcade-pushbuttonwhite-led-convex-arcade-pushbutton.html

30 Connection Black Daisy Chain (.250") - Makes wiring the LED buttons really easy http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/en/jamma-harnesses/406-30-connection-black-daisy-chain-110.html

30 Connection Red Daisy Chain (.250") - http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/en/jamma-harnesses/407-30-connection-black-daisy-chain-110.html


Scott

[Nephasth]

I like how Nephasth did his LED buttons, but he ended up with over $6 per button in them, plus the LED controller.
(guess I can't say much, my Seimitsu buttons were $3.75 each and don't even light up    )
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=108719.120

Hopefully someone who actually has lit buttons will chime in. 

Thanks! I wasn't expecting to see this pop up in this thread.

Don't forget, that $6+/button was a year ago, and prices were cheaper then (they would be $7.50 each right now before shipping). And I need two PACLED64s to run my 26 RGB LED lit buttons. (I really wish a vendor would offer an LED controller with 96/128 outputs...)

If you want the classic button feel, definitely get the transluscent IL buttons. They have the feel you're looking for. Avoid the convex LED buttons. If you get colored transluscent ILs, you can use single color LEDs to light them for much cheaper (single colored LEDs are cheaper than RGBs, and use less outputs on LED controllers). But it appears that Paradise has the clear ones back in stock! (347 as of right now) I don't even have a project lined up to use any, but I want to buy some anyway...

If you go with transluscent ILs, use Paradise's IL-lumination LEDs (single color or RGB). They're not exactly plug n' play, but they're worth the extra work.

[yotsuya]

I like how Nephasth did his LED buttons, but he ended up with over $6 per button in them, plus the LED controller.
(guess I can't say much, my Seimitsu buttons were $3.75 each and don't even light up    )
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=108719.120

Hopefully someone who actually has lit buttons will chime in. 

Thanks! I wasn't expecting to see this pop up in this thread.

Don't forget, that $6+/button was a year ago, and prices were cheaper then (they would be $7.50 each right now before shipping). And I need two PACLED64s to run my 26 RGB LED lit buttons. (I really wish a vendor would offer an LED controller with 96/128 outputs...)

If you want the classic button feel, definitely get the transluscent IL buttons. They have the feel you're looking for. Avoid the convex LED buttons. If you get colored transluscent ILs, you can use single color LEDs to light them for much cheaper (single colored LEDs are cheaper than RGBs, and use less outputs on LED controllers). But it appears that Paradise has the clear ones back in stock! (347 as of right now) I don't even have a project lined up to use any, but I want to buy some anyway...

If you go with transluscent ILs, use Paradise's IL-lumination LEDs (single color or RGB). They're not exactly plug n' play, but they're worth the extra work.

It's like crack, huh? I feel the same way!