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Author Topic: Rolling Display On Some Games??  (Read 2905 times)

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lettuce

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Rolling Display On Some Games??
« on: May 09, 2012, 08:00:47 am »
I am currently trying out a, HANTAREX CT 28 EQ MONITOR. I have tried using the standard and CGA monitor spec lines and get the same results. If im trying games like, final fight, strider, sunset riders, etc the display is solid (no rolling), if i try Elevator Action Returns then i constanly get a slow rolling, and games like R-Type, Dragon Breed, and MK i get a fast rolling screen. I have tried to rectify this by altering the V & H hold pots but doesnt seem to help. Any ideas?, as i never got this when using my Sony CRT TVs?

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2012, 08:06:57 am »
That's definitely a vertical refresh dependent problem so it should be solved through the V-hold / V-freq potentiometer, provided this potentiometer works.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
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 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2012, 08:31:49 am »
I can get the rolling to slow down when using the pots but not stop completely, is there a value i can change in the monitor_spec line to help? How come i never had this problem on my CRT TV but do with a Monitor?

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2012, 12:01:48 pm »
I can get the rolling to slow down when using the pots but not stop completely, is there a value i can change in the monitor_spec line to help? How come i never had this problem on my CRT TV but do with a Monitor?

It might be a sync polarity issue. Grab the beta version of vmmaker I posted yesterday, which has support for sync polarities, and add a line like this:

monitor_specs0    15625-16200, 49.50-65.00, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.160, 1.056, 0, 1, 288, 448

Now play with this value 0/1 to see if you fix it (you need to run vmmaker and restart).
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
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 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2012, 12:54:00 pm »
Tried adding the '1', but it didnt appear to have any effect. Im not sure why im having to alter the V hold for every game, and then for when i go back to windows. It just doesnt seem to 'lock' the sync, ive manage to get it stable for some games but involves alot of tweak and just catching it right so if stops centre on the screen, as i said it doesnt appear to lock. I dont appear to have this problem on the retro consoles ive tried and the sync does 'lock' with those so i dont think its the monitor at fault?

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2012, 01:16:03 pm »
Consoles use composite sync. You may need to enable composite sync, easiest way is using Winmodelines.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2012, 01:39:23 pm »
That might be it, on the video harness that came with the monitor it has v and y sync wires coming form the chassis PCB but then goes to the same pin on the plug at the end of the harness which ive then just attached a single wire to and ran to the H sync pin on a vga cable ive made up. It uses both inputs for sync (horizontal and vertical) as most games are jamma connector compatible, and have therefore only one sync output which is composite sync the composite sync is connected to both inputs and the onboard circuitry will separate the signals.

Can you explain how i can enable composite sync with winmodelines please?

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2012, 02:01:49 pm »
Quote
Can you explain how i can enable composite sync with winmodelines please?

Just run the app and check a box labelled C-Sync, apply changes and restart. That should be enough, let me know if it works.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
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 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2012, 02:25:59 pm »
Ok have just tried, i ticked the box next to C Sync and restarted the PC. I got a fast rolling screen for the BIOS page and windows loading screen (same as usual) but now i dont get a display at all in windows just a black screen

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2012, 02:44:27 pm »
If I remind right for c-sync to work your modelines must be defined with positive hsync and vsync first, this is in Winmodelines documentation. I'd start in VGA mode and disable the c-sync by means of Winmodelines, then restart in normal mode and recalculate all modelines using a monitor_specs line with both "1" values for hsync and vsync, then re-enabling c-sync with Winmodelines.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2012, 02:52:23 pm »
ok, ummm how do u boot into VGA mode again for windowx XP??, its going to be hard selecting the VGA mode from the list if my screen is rolling all the time  :cry:

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2012, 02:55:26 pm »
Now it's time to plug your emergency PC monitor I'm afraid :(

I'm sorry I should have warned you about the c-sync thing.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2012, 03:39:46 pm »
Yeah i just pluged it up to my PC monitor. Ok i loaded up Winmodelines and unticked the C Sync and restarted. Plug my arcade monitor back in and i still get a black screen on windows  :hissy:

So my modeline in VMMAker.ini should read....

monitor_specs0    15625-16200, 49.50-65.00, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.160, 1.056, 1, 1, 288, 448  ??

Or do i also have to change the option just above the modline where is says about horizontal and vertical polarities??



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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2012, 04:10:33 pm »
That's the correct line, calculate the modelines with it. I'm assuming your using the last beta of VMMaker I posted on the main thread.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
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 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2012, 04:18:29 pm »
That's the correct line, calculate the modelines with it. I'm assuming your using the last beta of VMMaker I posted on the main thread.

Yeah im using 1.3c. Im still unable to get a picture in windows now. I plugged my PC monitor back in, made sure C Sync was unticked (and it was), changed the modespec line in VMMAKER.ini to...

15625-16200, 49.50-65.00, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.160, 1.056, 1, 1, 288, 448

regenerated, restarted the PC, enabled C Sync in winmodelines, restarted PC again and still cant get a display  :dizzy:. Maybe its altered something in the reg and cant be changed back. Am i going to have to unistall the ATI drivers?

On a side note i only ticked the VGA1 box for C sync, and never ticked the VGA2 box. I would have thought that if i pluged my monitor into the 2nd VGA socket on my gfx card then that should of worked but it didnt i still got a black screen once windows had loaded

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2012, 04:28:02 pm »
Oh damn, you'll need to reinstall the drivers if we can't fix it this way, sorry.

On a side note i only ticked the VGA1 box for C sync, and never ticked the VGA2 box. I would have thought that if i pluged my monitor into the 2nd VGA socket on my gfx card then that should of worked but it didnt i still got a black screen once windows had loaded

Well actually I would have ticked both boxes, by the way where are you connecting each of the monitors?
Are you sure the output for the arcade monitor is enabled? It might have got disabled after this change.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2012, 04:33:53 pm »
Oh damn, you'll need to reinstall the drivers if we can't fix it this way, sorry.

On a side note i only ticked the VGA1 box for C sync, and never ticked the VGA2 box. I would have thought that if i pluged my monitor into the 2nd VGA socket on my gfx card then that should of worked but it didnt i still got a black screen once windows had loaded

Well actually I would have ticked both boxes, by the way where are you connecting each of the monitors?
Are you sure the output for the arcade monitor is enabled? It might have got disabled after this change.


Yeah i check to see it the video harness was still plug in, and dont forget im still getting a rolling display for the bios screen and windows loading screen.

When u enable C-sync in winmodelines do i have to highlight all the video modes in the list or do you just click C sync and the apply and exit?

Whats the best course of attion when uninstalling and reinstalling the ATI drivers?, just use CP to uninstall and just reinstall them again?

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2012, 04:35:09 pm »
If you know how to do this, using regedit to remove the key "DALR6 CRT" from the video driver's registry should undo the change. The registry path where this key resides is shown in Winmodelines window, at the top.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2012, 04:37:32 pm »
so i can just remove that key within regedit and i wont have to uninstall the drivers?

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2012, 04:38:16 pm »
When u enable C-sync in winmodelines do i have to highlight all the video modes in the list or do you just click C sync and the apply and exit?

No, it's a global value, you just enable it and restart, theoretically.

Quote
Whats the best course of attion when uninstalling and reinstalling the ATI drivers?, just use CP to uninstall and just reinstall them again?

Just use the control panel to uninstall and the drivers setup to reinstall. Once the drivers have been succesfully installed once there shouldn't be any problem when reinstalling (I do this hundreds of times).
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2012, 04:39:20 pm »
so i can just remove that key within regedit and i wont have to uninstall the drivers?

Theoretically yes.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2012, 04:54:52 pm »
ok ill try. incase that does work where can i downloaded the latest Groovymame ATI drivers from now, seeing the old site is no more?

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2012, 04:56:11 pm »
I posted some links last week on the main thread, they should be available there.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
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 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2012, 10:37:16 pm »
Sounds like you need to seperate the H and V sync wires. It *does* make a difference in how well it works. They're not labeled, but if it still doesn't sync, just switch them around.

I tried combined sync and while the real game board might not care, the PC does.

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2012, 02:21:40 pm »
Ok, i have delted the DALR6 CRT key via regedit, restarted the PC, ran VMMaker again to regenerate the new modeline, restarted PC, enabled C Sync in Winmodelines, turned of PC, plug Arcade monitor back in again and i still dont get a display when loaded into windows :(

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2012, 03:01:35 pm »
Ok, i have delted the DALR6 CRT key via regedit, restarted the PC, ran VMMaker again to regenerate the new modeline, restarted PC, enabled C Sync in Winmodelines, turned of PC, plug Arcade monitor back in again and i still dont get a display when loaded into windows :(

But did you get picture on the arcade monitor after deleting the registry key? If you re-enable C-sync you'll restore the DALR6 CRT key you just deleted.

I mean C-Sync in Winmodelines probably does not work for Catalyst 9.3. Maybe CCC version 9.3 can allow you enabling C-sync properly:
http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/windows/9-3/Pages/radeonaiw_xp.aspx?&lang=English

However, I agree boardjunkie, it would be better to have separated sync wires.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 03:06:55 pm by Calamity »
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2012, 06:15:46 pm »
Spliting the sync wires seem to have done the trick!  :applaud:

Have now removed the DALR6 CRT & DALR6 CRT2 keys via regedit as i dont need c-sync via winmodelines anymore??, also have removed the positives sync values for the monitor_specs is all this correct?

But have noticed that now there is approx an inch boarder at the top of the screen and i have the V position pot to the max so cant move the screen up anymore. Is there a value in monitor_spec line that can shift the screen upwards?

What Monitor_spec line should i be using?, either...

15625-16200, 49.50-65.00, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.160, 1.056, 0, 0, 288, 448

or

15250-15700, 49.5-65, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.192, 1.024, 0, 0, 288, 448

for a 15khz CGA monitor?




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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2012, 06:23:53 pm »
Good news then! Yeah leave the sync values to zero (negative) now.

It's strange that the screen is shifted down because those are pretty standard values.

Vertical centering is regulated by these values:

15625-16200, 49.50-65.00, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.160, 1.056, 0, 0, 288, 448

Increasing the first one will push the picture up. Experiment a bit with Arcade_OSD first.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2012, 06:54:33 pm »
Yeah, im almost certain the screen didnt have this problem when it was wired for composite sync.

I have noticed that both of those monitor_spec lines only create 99 resolutions and not the normal 120, any ideas on that?

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2012, 07:00:20 pm »
I have noticed that both of those monitor_spec lines only create 99 resolutions and not the normal 120, any ideas on that?

This VMMaker beta has new filtering options. Edit this one:

   YresMin_XML = 224
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2012, 07:47:44 am »
Sync has nothing to do with the pix filling the screen. Its just there to stabilise the image. If you can't move the image up enough with the v pos control, there might be a jumper on the board to move it more. Maybe the modeline yer using is causing the problem...

Just for anyone following this thread....the monitor he has is H-rex's version of a Sony PVM monitor.

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2012, 10:11:42 am »
Sync has nothing to do with the pix filling the screen. Its just there to stabilise the image. If you can't move the image up enough with the v pos control, there might be a jumper on the board to move it more. Maybe the modeline yer using is causing the problem...

I'm not sure if there is a jumper on the chassis pcb for this as I never got a manual with it :(.

Just for anyone following this thread....the monitor he has is H-rex's version of a Sony PVM monitor.

Is that a good thing?. What is H-Rex?

While we're on the subject of this monitor it's there anything i can do to boost the brightness and more so the contrast??. Whilst this is easy enough to fix for a PC (just use ATI CP) it's not for using a retro console. The picture isn't dark persay but I have the contrast as high as the pot will go but have always liked more contrast, is there a way to achieve this?
« Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 10:14:14 am by lettuce »

boardjunkie

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2012, 05:25:47 pm »
H-rex=Hantarex.

Your monitor should have a push switch on the back near the db9 input connector. Set that to "analog" and see if that takes care of it. I think its prob'ly set to TTL now and wants to see hotter video input signals.

http://imageshack.us/f/403/rearb.jpg/

As far as the vertical problem....you may have capacitors due for replacement if it has high hours of useage.

lettuce

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2012, 06:19:50 pm »
H-rex=Hantarex.

Your monitor should have a push switch on the back near the db9 input connector. Set that to "analog" and see if that takes care of it. I think its prob'ly set to TTL now and wants to see hotter video input signals.

http://imageshack.us/f/403/rearb.jpg/

As far as the vertical problem....you may have capacitors due for replacement if it has high hours of useage.

Damn sorry, i got my threads mixed up. I have actually been talking about the problems im having with my Pentranic CGA 15khz Chassis CH-288-S26A monitor not the Hantarex i have  ::) sorry. Everything bar my first 2 posts is regarding the Pentranic not the Hantarex. So its on my new Pentranic that ive noticed that since spliting the sync's that there is a boarder at the top of the screen with the vertical shift pot turned all the wat up, but as you said it might be the Monitor_spec line that is causing that, I take it there isnt a jumper on this monitor to shift the screen up more?

It is actually this Pentranic monitor that i would still like to increase the contrast still, and as i said its acceptable at the moment but i have it turned all the way up and always like most contrast on my games. Is there a way to acheive this for the Pentranic?

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2012, 06:43:50 pm »
I've never been a huge fan of the Hantarex stuff (as found in arcade machines), but that looks like a damn nice monitor. Lots of flexability and inputs. Want....

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2012, 06:49:11 pm »
If you can't get enough brightness then you need a video amp in between the vid card and teh monitor to bump the video levels up to TTL level (most arcade monitors want TTL level color signals).

http://www.ultimarc.com/vidamp.html

Divemaster (forum member) is in the US and stocks these.

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2012, 06:52:32 pm »
If you can't get enough brightness then you need a video amp in between the vid card and teh monitor to bump the video levels up to TTL level (most arcade monitors want TTL level color signals).

http://www.ultimarc.com/vidamp.html

Divemaster (forum member) is in the US and stocks these.

Would that boost contrast aswell? Its more for the console side of things really, as for PC you can jsyt alter the contrast in the ATI CP couldnt you?

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #37 on: May 15, 2012, 10:21:42 pm »
Higher color levels result in "more of everything"....so you can set the monitor controls for the best pix quality without maxing them out and running out of adjustment.

Using too low color signals is kinda like putting a 4 cylinder engine in a muscle car. It'll still move, but not as it was intended to. Always best to match video levels for best performance.

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Re: Rolling Display On Some Games??
« Reply #38 on: May 16, 2012, 01:34:32 pm »
I'll give one a go maybe, shame that Ultimarc shipping costs are soo damn high! and i live in the UK aswell.

Or maybe one of these might be more suited for a retro console...

http://etim.net.au/scart2arcV20/scart2arc2.htm
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 01:46:36 pm by lettuce »