A question about surge protectors

[ArcadeSeeker962]

I've read on other websites that when building a MAME cabinet, that a surge protector is required. If so, how strong of a sure projector should I get?

[MTPPC]

I think you are referring to a "smart strip" that shuts down monitor and accessories on computer shutdown: http://www.amazon.com/Smart-Energy-Saving-Autoswitching-Technology/dp/B000P1QJXQ/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_img_b

[drventure]

A surge protector is never "required" per se,

but it's often good to have one for a couple reasons.

1) It could help protect the PC etc in the cab from spikes that could burn them out. You spent all that time building the cab, it'd suck to get a surge and have to tear the PC out and replace it (or worse).

2) Many people like to get a surge protector that has a "Master power" plug. Whatever you plug into that plug, controls power to all the other plugs on the surge protector. So, you plug the PC into that plug, and the monitor/other power supplies into the other plugs on the protector, and presto, when you turn the PC on, everything in the cab turns on, when you turn it off, everything shuts down.

As for what kind. That all depends on what you want to spend.

I picked up a philips from walmart for about 20$ that has a master plug on it. It's worked great for me, and when full on lightning hit fried all my equipment, philips was right there and cut a check to replace it (more or less).

[mcseforsale]

I built my own with a 12V 10A fuse, some romex (the stuff they build houses with), some gang boxes and a few connectors.  I have 2 switched outlets on the bottom of the cab for the PC (and anything else I'll need) in a 2 gang box and it feeds 4 more outlets power ONLY when the PC is on.

Power comes in from the outside:



Then, with household romex...fees into the 2 gang box...through an on/off switch into an outlet.  



That twisted pair of wire runs from a 12V power lead in the PC to one of these:


That relay sits in the single gang box (I've since changed the white blank to a steel one).  When the PC goes on, the relay is tripped and power is then sent *UP* into the cabinet to a second 2 gang box with 4 outlets for my USB hub, marquee lights and amplifier.



So, the entire cab is like a big smart power strip...for about 10 bux...but I had almost everything laying around except the relay...

I like the industrial look of it (I've since cleaned it up, but you get the idea).

Here's the original thread and great explanation from yaksplat.  This is where I learnt it.  Yak did a great writeup and explanation of the parts.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=119281.0

YMMV...

AJ

[ArcadeSeeker962]

Wow, that looks really impressive!  It looks like I still have more to learn about electrical equipment. This may sound like a silly question, but once the MAME cabinet is complete, me and my father are going to place the MAME cabinet in our basement. The problem is that it'll probably be placed near where we have our pet rabbits in a cage. Due to how our pet rabbit's cage is designed, hay, sawdust, and rabbit food tends to fall out of the cage. Also, our pet rabbits tend to be kind of aggressive(they're Mini Rex Rabbits, if anyone is familiar with that breed of rabbit) by knocking over their food bowl which can cause more of a mess. So, should I be careful about how me and my father wire the MAME cabinet due to that issue?

[mcseforsale]

Unusual question.  The rabbits should be fine.  As long as they don't have access to anything that they can chew on.  The romex has a very tough outer sheath used for pulling the wire through holes in 2x4s and such as a house is wired.  Plus, I think by design romex is unpalatable to rodents by chemicals they put in the sheathing.

Just make sure that ANY wiring is away from any water or moisture.  True fact...cordless drills and power tools were a response to plumbers and other contractors getting zapped while working in moist basements.

AJ

Wow, that looks really impressive!  It looks like I still have more to learn about electrical equipment. This may sound like a silly question, but once the MAME cabinet is complete, me and my father are going to place the MAME cabinet in our basement. The problem is that it'll probably be placed near where we have our pet rabbits in a cage. Due to how our pet rabbit's cage is designed, hay, sawdust, and rabbit food tends to fall out of the cage. Also, our pet rabbits tend to be kind of aggressive(they're Mini Rex Rabbits, if anyone is familiar with that breed of rabbit) by knocking over their food bowl which can cause more of a mess. So, should I be careful about how me and my father wire the MAME cabinet due to that issue?

[ArcadeSeeker962]

Yeah, I know it sounds like a silly question. Our family lets our rabbits hop around in closed-in rooms, so the chewing part won't be a problem. However, I will make sure that moisture is as far away as possible from the MAME cabinet. During thunder storms, is it recommended to have the arcade cabinet turned off to prevent any damage to the setup?

[drventure]

During thunder storms, is it recommended to have the arcade cabinet turned off to prevent any damage to the setup?

Turned off AND unplugged is the only way to be completely safe. If you get a direct hit and your cab's plugged in, even if it's off, it can still get fried.

Found that out the hard way 

[Mysterioii]

Romex might seem like it has a tough coating to us but I guarantee rodents in general can chew through it like butter if they take a mind to.  A lot of house fires are caused by squirrels getting into attics and deciding to chew on things.  I had a friend who had a pet rabbit eat all the buttons off his TV remote...  

Mcseforsale, that's a cool setup, but I wouldn't rely solely on a fuse.  Personally I'd use both (even if it's just a surge suppressor with an integrated fuse).  Say you are hit by a lightning strike, with just a fuse, it will conduct a lot of electricity momentarily until the filament heats up and melts.  Then, unless you have a UPS, your whole system suddenly gets shut down.  With a surge supressor it should theoretically smooth out the spike but leave power applied.

http://www.explainthatstuff.com/surgeprotectors.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surge_suppressor

And personally I would shut the system down and at least switch it off during a thunderstorm if I was able to.  I don't unplug them but my power strips/surge suppressors have a switch.  As Drventure pointed out, Philips came through for him by writing  him a check... after his suppressor failed.    They're better than nothing but they're not flawless.

[Dervacumen]

Here's another install of the build-your-own smartstrip type setup, about half way down the page: using a Radio Shack $9.00 relay

I only turn my machine on when I want to play, and I probably wouldn't do that during a thunder storm, mostly 'cause I live in CA and a thunderstorm is an event that draws us to the windows.
If you leave your TV and computer on during a thunderstorm, do the same with this.  It's the same risk (ie not much, but not zero).

[mcseforsale]

I'll have my cab plugged into this:



I wasn't looking for surge protection from a power strip.  I live in Ga...we don't have thunder storms...we have LIGHTNING STORMS!!  hahaha.  Most store-bought surge protecting power strips don't really work as advertised anyway.

I'm looking into a quality whole-home version, but I heard those are junk, too.

As for the romex...I found this interesting thread (it was a squirrel in the attic thread..):

"Older romex had the PVC derived from soy, and the critters thought it smelled like food. Newer stuff is derived from oil, and isn't nearly as tasty. It's still a problem, though, if the critters have learned to love it."

When $$ allows, I'll be switching to metal conduit anyway..simply for the looks.

AJ

[mcseforsale]

Cool mini Dervacumen.  Man, I wish you still had those blue bats laying around.  I could use 2 for comps and one for super.

AJ

[Mysterioii]

There ya go, I have a UPS/surge suppressor like that on my main desktop PC/router/cable modem.

[mcseforsale]

I just found the cable at work.  I think since I'm setting up the cab with wireless for RDP, I can use Powerchute and manage it remotely, too.

AJ

There ya go, I have a UPS/surge suppressor like that on my main desktop PC/router/cable modem.

[drventure]

Just a heads up about APC

I had several of their UPS's and surge suppressor strips on various equipment around my house. They ALL let the surge through just as easily as the inexpensive philips strip I bought from Walmart.

The difference.

One call to philips, they gave me an email address where I sent an email of what was behind the unit that was blown, and they gave me the address where to send the blown out strip. In about a week, they'd sent me a check, and I got a replacement strip even better than what I'd had.

APC on the other hand, made me, I kid you not, draw out a full-on visio diagram (that's what they asked for) of what specific equipment was connected to what suppressors/ups's, how things were connected, what kind of cable was used, how modems/cable/wireless (yes wireless!) was setup, product makes, models, serial numbers, copies of receipts, etc. It took forever to gather all that info and send it off and it took them about 6 months to reimburse me for anything, and even then all they reimbursed was about 1/4 replacement cost (not original cost, replacement cost).

Haven't bought another APC product since.

 

[mcseforsale]

Yeah.  I got it free.  I also get monitors and PCs (albeit old ones).  I want to do a whole house one for sure. 

AJ

[drventure]

I had a whole house suppressor installed when we moved in.

It was fried as well by the strike, when I called them, they pointed to some VERY suspect legalese in the warranty on the unit to get out of paying ANYTHING under warranty! I was pretty steamed. I probably could have sued, but, meh.

I yanked that unit and put another in with a much more clear cut warranty writeup. And it's supposedly a better unit. It's the cutler hammer CHSP Micro. Hopefully, I won't have to find out if it works or not

[mcseforsale]

This?

http://www.amazon.com/Eaton-Cutler-Hammer-Whole-Protector-CHSPMICRO/dp/B0039ZBW50

If I may ask...would you consider it a DIY?  I'm reasonably proficient around the fusebox, having put in a circuit or two, but I'm just wondering if the warranty is nil if I put it in myself..

AJ

I had a whole house suppressor installed when we moved in.

It was fried as well by the strike, when I called them, they pointed to some VERY suspect legalese in the warranty on the unit to get out of paying ANYTHING under warranty! I was pretty steamed. I probably could have sued, but, meh.

I yanked that unit and put another in with a much more clear cut warranty writeup. And it's supposedly a better unit. It's the cutler hammer CHSP Micro. Hopefully, I won't have to find out if it works or not

[drventure]

That's the one.

Wouldn't know about DIY and the warranty. I had an electrician put it in. Guy was either +really+ experienced or nuts, popped the breaker box cover off, and was fishing around in the 220v side bare handed! I think it ran 150$ installed. Somewhere in that neighborhood anyway.

I watched him install it. Really straightforward install as I recall.

[MonMotha]

I hot wire breaker panels all the time.  It's all about knowing what's live and what isn't.  I don't recommend it, though

(I kill the main when possible, and I really like having a separate disconnect to deaden the whole panel).

If you want a really good surge suppressor, I like the Tripp-Lite ISOBAR series.  They're not cheap, but they're very, very good.  They have the advantage of isolated filter banks, which is handy if you've got e.g. audio equipment with a linear supply that benefits from being separately filtered from your computer equipment.  They even have a freaking metal case.  They're darn near indestructible (universe inventing better destructors notwithstanding).  These are often what you get when you let an EE spec a "small" surge suppressor.

The Tripp-Lite "Super 7" is surprisingly good for its price, too, and is a more traditional "power strip".  Their warranty is pretty good, but I've never needed to make a claim on it.

I'm also not fond of APC branded products, but for technical reasons.  I've never personally had to make a claim on their warranty, but some people I know have experienced similar levels of "beating 'round the bush" to get their money out of them.

The whole house jobs are usually REALLY good.  As long as that suppressor is between your equipment and the surge, it'll do something about it, and the whole house ones have the benefit of being able to be BIG.  My preference is to install them right on the main utility feed before the main panel, for which that disconnect I mentioned above is nice, but a ~60-80A breaker and some ~AWG4 wire is a pretty decent alternative.  I would NOT classify this as a DIY job, even for someone fairly experienced.  To get the warranty, you'll generally need it to be installed by a "licensed electrician", anyway (not that those exist around this part of the woods).  A lot of utility companies offer then for a flat monthly fee.  The break-even is typically only a year or two versus buying it outright, but then the utility handles installation, maintenance, etc.  Just watch out for weasily warranty terms.

I would still use decent point-of-use surge suppressors even in the presence of a whole-premises unit.  Shouldn't hurt and may save you in the event of a really big nasty like a nearly direct lightning strike.

[ArcadeSeeker962]

Thank you for the advice. For the MAME cabinet, me and my father decided on a surge protector just for safety reasons. I thank you all for the advice though.