Qs Re: Required buttons, including admin.

[Ren Hoek]

I'm looking at starting work on my CP.

I have decided to use Happs super joysticks (are these the best for fighting games and shoot-em ups?) and 6 buttons (possibly 7 after reading about Neo Geo games - is anothe rbuton worth it?).  I am looking at including a trackball and spinner if my budget allows it.

How many buttons (if any) are required to accommodate both the trackball and spinner?  I've read up to 3 for the trackball.  I'd like to use the trackball as a mouse, so is 2 enough or do some games use 3?  Furthermore, where is the best positioning for these buttons (above, either side)?  What about the spinner, are buttons needed to assist the spinner for any games?  If so, can any of the other buttons be used instead?

Also, apart from the player 1 and 2 buttons, what additional buttons are required (such as credit buttons - I won't be using a working coin door).  I hear people talking about TAB and ESC etc as buttons programmed into the CP.  I assume these are important buttons for MAME.  Then peopel talk about using a shift button (again I assume to reduce the amount of buttons on the CP).

I would appreciate very much a response to these queries, as I am just about to start work on the CP and don't want to leave any stone unturned.  I have looked around this site but can't find the answers I'm after.

[paigeoliver]

You don't need ANY extra buttons besides your 6 buttons for each player and your start buttons. Everything else just adds to panel clutter.

Spinners and trackballs can use the buttons off either player one or two. They DO NOT need dedicated buttons. If you want actual mouse buttons then wire a couple of your other buttons as the mouse buttons (Player 1 and player 2 start are good choices for mouse buttons).

As for the Neo Geo button. Have you extensively played any 4 buttons Neo Geo games in the arcade to an extent that you need the button layout to be the same (only the fighters are 4 button), if so, then go for the Neo Geo layout, otherwise it is just extra cost and extra clutter for no real reason.

The best "secondary" control to add on a budget is a 4-way joystick, or even better a pair of them (one for each player, as they are also better for puzzle games than 8-ways are). They go well directly to the left of each standard joystick, and sharing the same buttons as them.

After a 4-way (hundreds of games use 4-ways) the next best control to add is a trackball (about 60-80 games use trackballs, or at least play well with them). Next up would have to be a spinner (about 20 games).

Of course the sky is the limit when it comes to different controls. The specialty ones are almost endless, 360 wheels, 270 wheels, several kinds of yokes, steering harnesses with buttons, all kinds of shifters and pedals, several kinds of rotary joysticks, 720 spin/joy, Xybots sticks, analog sticks, Wizard of Wor 2x4-Way sticks, positional guns, light guns, up/down spinners, several kinds of top fire sticks, Vindicators controls, Assault sticks, 49-way sticks, several kinds of dance/"Stompin" pads, keyboards, turntables, pressure sensitive buttons (original Street Fighter), several kinds of boxing/arm wrestling controls, 2-way joysticks, 270 spinners (many pre-80 games), levers (Galaxian cocktail and others), bicycle pedals (Prop Cycle), holographic guns (Golly! Ghost!), Frontline spinner (different from others), bowling ball (Hyperbowl), Pinball plunger, roller (Major Havoc), and about a zillion others!

[bigjase]

I'm new to this and am about to start my first cab. I do have a question about the amount of buttons. What games/types of games do you need 7 buttons for? I didn't get to the arcade much since I lived in the country, and mainly remember games having 4 buttons, such as Wrestlemania and TMNT. Thanks for your help.

[thebrownshow]

As for the Neo Geo button. Have you extensively played any 4 buttons Neo Geo games in the arcade to an extent that you need the button layout to be the same (only the fighters are 4 button), if so, then go for the Neo Geo layout, otherwise it is just extra cost and extra clutter for no real reason.

I've got to say that I really like the Neo Geo layout for OTHER games -- NBA Jam, for example.  It seems a bit more comfortable to have "turbo" down on that thumb button.

[unclet]

You might also want to consider:

1)

[pointdablame]

I'm new to this and am about to start my first cab. I do have a question about the amount of buttons. What games/types of games do you need 7 buttons for? I didn't get to the arcade much since I lived in the country, and mainly remember games having 4 buttons, such as Wrestlemania and TMNT. Thanks for your help.

Just a note since no one has directly said it... No games (except the quiz and mahjong games) use more than 6 buttons to my knowledge.  The 7 button layout is meant to emulate the 6 button fighter layout AND the 4 button neogeo layout.  You are never actually using seven buttons... you're just using different layouts.

For example: ("x" means the buttons isn't used)

Fighters - 2 rows of 3 buttons with the fourth button unused

    1  2  3
x  4  5  6

NeoGeo - (4 buttons with top 3 buttons unused)

    x  x  x
1  2  3  4

Hope that helps

[RayB]

... and then to further complicate... It all depends what specific games you're using. There are ALOT of Neo Geo games that don't even make use of all 4 buttons. Even some fighting games use only 3 (kick, punch, throw). Some only use the 4th button for something useless like "taunt".

Same goes for the 6-button layout. Only Street Fighter II/Mortal Kombat style fighting games use them all.

[pointdablame]

... and then to further complicate... It all depends what specific games you're using. There are ALOT of Neo Geo games that don't even make use of all 4 buttons. Even some fighting games use only 3 (kick, punch, throw). Some only use the 4th button for something useless like "taunt".

Same goes for the 6-button layout. Only Street Fighter II/Mortal Kombat style fighting games use them all.

Yup, very good points.

My take on it is this though:  The 7 button layout doesn't look more cluttered than a 4 button layout (IMHO) unless you are working with a very small control panel, so the 3 extra buttons, and $5 extra cost per player is probably worth it just in case you want to play those games that need them.

It's the admin buttons and extra buttons and mouse buttons et al that really clutter up a panel.

[RayB]

Like Point said. If I went for 6 buttons on mine, I'd have no room for the spinner.

[thebrownshow]

It's the admin buttons and extra buttons and mouse buttons et al that really clutter up a panel.

I've got to say, I HATE panels that have admin buttons or power switches or any of that extra stuff -- especially when admin buttons can be done through shift functions on an encoder and there are so many options for powering up all of your stuff (Big fan of the Bits Limited SmartStrip).

When I setup my cab, being able to restore it to a regular old JAMMA cabinet was a priority.  I've made zero modifications to my control panel, and I could swap out my J-Pac for a game board and nobody would know the difference.  I think the little things like that are vital to the whole "Arcade Experience."

[SirPoonga]

I just have quit and pause.  The cabinet was made to be friendly friendly.  If a friend comes over I don't want to have to keep reminding how to use the cabinet (especially after a few drinks )

I have tab, save, load, the not much used admin buttons as shift functions.

[pointdablame]

I just have quit and pause.  The cabinet was made to be friendly friendly.  If a friend comes over I don't want to have to keep reminding how to use the cabinet (especially after a few drinks )

I have tab, save, load, the not much used admin buttons as shift functions.

I like having quit and pause easily accessible as well, but not on the actual CP.  I've used a few different places for them before, but I have a neat little idea about where to put them on my current project

[hnugz]

I was going to go with 7 buttons per player, 2 buttons for mouse, 1 p1 coin, 1 p2 coin, 1 p1 start, 1 p2 start.  This was my minimum.  I might also add stuff for pinball if I can ever get it to work correctly.

So for people who use buttons for multiple purposes, does this not interfere with the games when you play?  If I have left and right mouse button set as the same buttons the players use, this doesn't cuase any unnecessary problems?  I don't want it to interfere with gameplay.

[SirPoonga]

So for people who use buttons for multiple purposes, does this not interfere with the games when you play?  If I have left and right mouse button set as the same buttons the players use, this doesn't cuase any unnecessary problems?  I don't want it to interfere with gameplay.

In theory it shouldn't.  I haven't tried recently but a few years ago it did make a difference in some games, that's why I have a switch that switches two button from mouse to ipac.

[hnugz]

In theory it shouldn't.

[RayB]

One more problem of many buttons is people knowing which to use. Like the other day i got my GF to play Tetris and she didn't know which of the 4 buttons to press (since Tetris only uses 1 button). I had to twice say "the red one".

[SirPoonga]

Now that sounds like an interesting idea, how do you have this setup?  What kind of switch are you using and where do you have it on your cab?

Just using a relay that uses USB for power.  I have it setup so when there is no power it is ipac, when there is power then mouse.  The switch is on the bottom side of my controll panel.

I will redo it to use a rocker switch, that way power isn't required.  I wired it up before I knew what dpdt actually meant.  Someone suggested to use the relay and sent me instructions on how to wire it.

http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?handler=displayproduct&lstdispproductid=482074&e_categoryid=143&e_pcodeid=63302
Click on the manufacturer data sheet. look at M2042.
You would have ipac ground connected to 2 and 5.  Mouse ground to 8 and 11.
Ipac button 1 and 2 connected to 1 and 4 respectively.  Mouse button 1 and 2 connected to 9 and 12.