Position Gun Mounting Method

[Johnny the MAMEr]

OK my positional guns are now working thanks to 1up's hack method. Next goal is to mount them on the cabinet (then make the recoil work). Most of the gun games have that mirror with the monitor mounted below inside the cabinet. My cabinet was a Mortal Kombat so I need to mount the guns further back from the monitor. I guess I'll need to build something like whats on Lucky & Wild
http://www.klov.com/L/Lucky_&_Wild.html

Question for 1UP and Dave: How did you mount your guns to your cabinet? Any photos? Any final design for that recoil interface and how did you supply power for the 24volt solenoid ?  

[Dav]

OK my positional guns are now working thanks to 1up's hack method. Next goal is to mount them on the cabinet (then make the recoil work). Most of the gun games have that mirror with the monitor mounted below inside the cabinet. My cabinet was a Mortal Kombat so I need to mount the guns further back from the monitor. I guess I'll need to build something like whats on Lucky & Wild
http://www.klov.com/L/Lucky_&_Wild.html

Question for 1UP and Dave: How did you mount your guns to your cabinet? Any photos? Any final design for that recoil interface and how did you supply power for the 24volt solenoid ?

[Johnny the MAMEr]

Thanks Dave!  Because the monitor is lower, I guess it will be a "shoot from the hip" game unlike T2 where it's about shoulder height.  I think I'll just put a detachable panel extension and bolt the guns to that.  I did notice one of the bugs today while playing T2. When you accidentally shoot a human they don't yell at you.  I'm kinda slow on getting MAME cab stuff done but I will attempt to get the recoil working someday. I'll bug ya for your recoil code then.  

[Dav]

I think I sent the source to 1up, if I'm not around.  I need to post it somewhere before I lose it.

Good luck,
Dave

[1UP]

I've got the T2 driver from Dave, you can download it at http://www.1uparcade.com/misc/wmsyunit.c (right click the link and "save target as..", unless you just want to read the code!

[Dav]

I'm glad you got it to work.  It looks like they just added beast busters and mechanized attack, I may have to go ahead and do the conversion even if T2 is a little wacked.  I've been pretty busy lately though.

[Johnny the MAMEr]

It will probably be easier for me to just build some type of full width panel extension rather than the "Lucky & Wild" mutiple gun mounts. Plus I'll only need to bolt 1 panel on the cabinet.  I'm thinking if you just get the guns close to the correct distance the calibration (T2) will take care of the rest.  Looks like the tip of the barrel will be 2ft from the top of the screen but the Mortal Kombat screen sits angled back so the bottom of the screen will be just over 1 ft from the tip of the gun.

 1UP: Can you share your final design for the LED to solenoid circuit? I wish I had time to do some of that 3D modeling like you've done. Very nice! I'm no code writer or electrical circuit designer but I can certainly buy parts and solder them together.  Did you get the 24volts from a wall wart transformer?

[1UP]

At some point, all the tidbits of info I've collected will go onto my website, but probably not until I get my cabinet somewhat put together.  That way, I know what worked and what didn't.  I'm planning to cut out the sides and start putting things together this weekend, but I've been saying that for the past 10 weekends or so...  

But, yes, I'll be happy to share the schematic in good time.  If Dave ends up putting in all the support, you might not need it though.  J-works has a nifty little $60 usb relay board that can be controlled by c programming.  I'm hoping a minor rewrite of Dave's code will send the outputs to the relay board instead of the LEDs!  Stay tuned.

[1UP]

BTW, expect that box to be pretty darn HEAVY with 2 guns mounted, especially if you're using thick wood!  The guns are made almost entirely of metal, and almost any kind of strong box you can make to support them will add greatly to the weight.  I have mine temporarily mounted on an old CD storage box, made out of 1/4" pressboard, and I still manage to strain my back lifting it up on my CP.  You'll need to build it without a bottom so it fits over whatever else is on your panel.

[Johnny the MAMEr]

I think I'll work on the guns control panel design tonight.  There won't be anything under it though.  It might be a little while before I work on the recoil function.  I'll take a photo when it's done.

[1UP]

So...did you get that panel built?

[enemyace]

Dang, your cab design is looking awesome! I'm going to feel like such a hoser when I copy all your ideas. =)

Actually, I'll try not to, but some of them are just too good to pass up! Keep up the good work.

-EA

[Johnny_the_MAMEr]

Yes I got the thing built and mounted to the control panel. Haven't painted or t-molded it yet. Very simple box with 2 rectangular holes that point toward the screen.  I need to reverse some pot wires (because like you said, the DS pads should be in joystick mode) and then go for some type of calibration after I add a USB extension cord.  After that it's recoil activation time! I certainly hope the solenoids aren't shot on the guns. Odds are they don't work. In almost every arcade I've been to the solenoids are dead. I did recently play a T2 that had a very healthy solenoid (one the 1 gun that worked) and that sucker kicked so good it just about made my hands numb.  I'll post a photo soon.  

[1UP]

Dang, your cab design is looking awesome! I'm going to feel like such a hoser when I copy all your ideas. =)

Actually, I'll try not to, but some of them are just too good to pass up! Keep up the good work.

-EA

Don't mind if you copy stuff, but make sure you credit me with the idea!

[Dav]

Happs has all kinds of pinball coils, even Midway ones, but I can't find one that matches the original part number.

[Elkor]

the wico catalog has a lot of pinball parts.  I could take a look for you, what is the part #

(or the catalog is available online at wico's site and google catalogs)

-C

[1UP]

Thanks, I'll check myself.  I'd like my cab to start life with fresh parts!  (Already replaced all the switches in my SW yoke...)

[Thorn]

For 1UP: I've been working on the T2 style guns again recently and I came across a problem with using them in Terminator.  At first I was having a calibration problem. I couldn't get the gun to point at the far left side of the screen. I figured out that if I removed the "rack" gear from the bottom of the gun and then rotated the "pinion" gear about 1 tooth I could get there. Crossbow works very good, however when I play Terminator the gun works fine on the left side of the screen but it moves too fast (horizontally) on the right side of the screen. I tried calibrating the gun in the T2 calibration and I tried using the Dual Strike software as well. No luck. I replaced the pot on the bottom (they're so cheap) but that didn't help either. Tried doing your trick with calculating the numbers during gun calibration in T2 also.  Do you have this type of problem with your positional guns/T2?          

[1UP]

For 1UP: I've been working on the T2 style guns again recently and I came across a problem with using them in Terminator.  At first I was having a calibration problem. I couldn't get the gun to point at the far left side of the screen. I figured out that if I removed the "rack" gear from the bottom of the gun and then rotated the "pinion" gear about 1 tooth I could get there. Crossbow works very good, however when I play Terminator the gun works fine on the left side of the screen but it moves too fast (horizontally) on the right side of the screen. I tried calibrating the gun in the T2 calibration and I tried using the Dual Strike software as well. No luck. I replaced the pot on the bottom (they're so cheap) but that didn't help either. Tried doing your trick with calculating the numbers during gun calibration in T2 also.  Do you have this type of problem with your positional guns/T2?          

T2 has a unique problem which I don't fully understand.  The software seems to only see the 1/2 of the x and y positional data that the pots put out.  This seems to be independent of what controller you use.  For example, If I use my Hammerhead gamepad's analog stick to do the aiming, the crosshairs only move when I move the stick in the upper-left quadrant:  0,0 is the top left corner, and 255,255 is the center.  The workaround is to tweak the rack postioning like you said (you need to do this anyway even on the original machines) and then calibrate the guns numerically in T2's setup screen.

It sounds like your center calibration might be off.  I think I decribed this before, but this is what you do:  In the calibration menu, when it shows the top-left crosshair, move your gun toward the top-left, until it reads 0,0.  The pots have an error near the ends of their ranges, so you need to make sure you get clean numbers.  Slowly move the gun down and to the right until the numbers don't jump too much (the numbers should change about 1-2 units at a time).  Don't pull the trigger yet, just write down the numbers.

Now aim the gun toward the bottom-right, until it reads 255,255.  Now do the same as before, moving the gun slowly up and left until the numbers change more uniformly (1-2 units again) and write down that number.

Now take your top-left X number, and subtract it from your bottom-right X number.  Divide the result by 2, and you've got your center X coordinate.  Write this down.  Now do the same thing for your top-left and bottom-right Y numbers, and you have the correct numeric coordinates for the calibration screen.

If you haven't pulled the trigger, you should still be looking at the top-left crosshairs.  Just move your gun back to the top-left coordinates you wrote down, and pull the trigger.  Repeat using your center coordinates, and bottom-right coordinates, and you should be good to go.

You'll need to do the whole process over again for your second gun, since it will give different values.  Once you have calibrated correctly, the same numbers should always work as long as you don't change your gun hardware again.  You should keep the numbers written down somewhere in case you need to re-calibrate after upgrading Mame in the future.