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Author Topic: Controls controls controls...Noob learning  (Read 9135 times)

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Trip

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Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« on: March 12, 2012, 12:45:19 pm »
So now that I have my cabinet picked out and in process of refurbishment, I am going to start looking for a control panel (not really the best woodworker, so I want kit) and controls to go in it.

I am really looking at the Mameroom quad control panel with a customized layout.  

I am thinking of maybe moving the trackball up more and doing all the players in a straight up and down format across the panel.  Anyone with the panel think this is possible or is the angled format better to go with?  I know a lot of people really dislike the angled format, while others love it.

I would also like to try to move the 4 way to somewhere else than the very top center, because that looks very inconvient to try and reach it.

For you 4 player cab owners....  Is the 7 buttons necessary for players 3 and 4 or would it be ok to go with a 4 button setup for the 3/4 players?

I am thinking of going with an Ipac 4 for my controller, do you just parallel up the 4-way with the 1 player 8-way?

I am also going to go with 2 LEDWizs to run LEDs to everything.  Looking at Paradise LED Ball top joysticks and wanting to find a good concave LED button.  I don't like convex at all...   Looking at GGG, looks like it's real hard to get the EI2 and NovaGems, is that the only Concave LED buttons out there or is there another way to get them?  

Probably forgetting some other questions, but I can always post up if I remember some....


Rando

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2012, 12:58:04 pm »
I am thinking of maybe moving the trackball up more
If by "up more" you mean closer to the screen area, note that the closer your trackball is to your plexi/monitor the more likely it is that someone will spin the ball quite hard and potentially smack their hand/wrist/fist into whatever is there.
Rando - My build thread: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=107741.msg1142843#msg1142843 (work slowed but still progressing!

Trip

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2012, 01:03:18 pm »
If by "up more" you mean closer to the screen area, note that the closer your trackball is to your plexi/monitor the more likely it is that someone will spin the ball quite hard and potentially smack their hand/wrist/fist into whatever is there.

Yeah, I could see that happening.   :lol

Hoopz

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2012, 01:07:35 pm »
For you 4 player cab owners....  Is the 7 buttons necessary for players 3 and 4 or would it be ok to go with a 4 button setup for the 3/4 players?

Seven buttons on P3/P4 is only good for console emulation.  Only a few D&D games used four buttons for P3/P4 so you can get by with just three.  Four is fine if you want to support those D&D games.

I am thinking of going with an Ipac 4 for my controller, do you just parallel up the 4-way with the 1 player 8-way?
Exactly.

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2012, 01:08:13 pm »
Four buttons are fine IMO for player 3/4.  I built a few cabs with 6 buttons for Player 3/4 and learned real quickly that no one ever uses those extra buttons.

I also had on my first CP the trackball very close to the top and it really backfired on me since everyone who used it slammed their hand into the glass.  So yeah, don't do that.

rCadeGaming

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2012, 01:12:51 pm »
Obviously you want a 7 button layout for player 1 and 2.  There are lots of games that use 6 buttons (3 over 3) for Street Fighter style layouts, and 4 along the bottom for Neo Geo style layouts.  These are all 2 player games though, and off the top of my head I can't think of any 3 or 4 player games that use more than 3 buttons.

My advice when planning out your panel would be to get all the games you want to have running on another computer before you start building or buying anything.  Even if you just use your keyboard for controls, it's just a test to see how many controls you'll need for the games you want.  Run through every game you want and see if it will work with the panel you're planning.  From there you'll see what you can add and remove.

Trip

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2012, 01:23:56 pm »
Obviously you want a 7 button layout for player 1 and 2.  There are lots of games that use 6 buttons (3 over 3) for Street Fighter style layouts, and 4 along the bottom for Neo Geo style layouts.  These are all 2 player games though, and off the top of my head I can't think of any 3 or 4 player games that use more than 3 buttons.

My advice when planning out your panel would be to get all the games you want to have running on another computer before you start building or buying anything.  Even if you just use your keyboard for controls, it's just a test to see how many controls you'll need for the games you want.  Run through every game you want and see if it will work with the panel you're planning.  From there you'll see what you can add and remove.

I have already done that for most games I really want, things like Gauntlet/TMNT/X-men/Simpsons all don't require the extra buttons.  So I think I will reduce 3/4 to just 4 buttons.

rCadeGaming

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2012, 01:38:07 pm »
Nice, keep us updated.

Hoopz

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2012, 05:04:51 pm »
Seriously, I think there are just TWO games that use 4 buttons for players 3 and 4.  If you aren't going to play those with 4 total people on your machine, I wouldn't waste the time, space or money on putting those extra buttons in.

Peja

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2012, 05:29:23 pm »
Not trying to hijack this thread but my dilema before I build my CP is whether or not to add 6 buttons on the P3 and P4 as well.  I am not sure if the OP is planning on running any other emulators besides MAME such as Dreamcast down the line like I am but it may be nice to be future proof. 

4 player DC games can be fun(on a CP, not with breakout controlers).....games such as Powerstone 2, Blitz, Jams, Virtua Tennis.  I am not sure how many buttons these games use however.  May have to dig around and find a manual.


Trip

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2012, 05:56:52 pm »
Not trying to hijack this thread but my dilema before I build my CP is whether or not to add 6 buttons on the P3 and P4 as well.  I am not sure if the OP is planning on running any other emulators besides MAME such as Dreamcast down the line like I am but it may be nice to be future proof. 

4 player DC games can be fun(on a CP, not with breakout controlers).....games such as Powerstone 2, Blitz, Jams, Virtua Tennis.  I am not sure how many buttons these games use however.  May have to dig around and find a manual.

I can add the full 7 buttons to both 3/4, doesn't bother me to do it.  I just didn't know if it was really necessary.  I don't see people wanting to play the console games as much as the classic arcade games on this, which is what I am building it for anyway.  We have 1/2 for console games if needed.  I could put em on there and just have them there anyway though...

Was just debating freeing up a little space to do straight up instead of angled positions.

Peja

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2012, 06:02:28 pm »
I hear ya man......its always nice to try and incorporate everything but its also nice to have a clean layout without craming too much on there.

Good Luck!!

rCadeGaming

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2012, 07:18:03 pm »
Seriously, I think there are just TWO games that use 4 buttons for players 3 and 4.  If you aren't going to play those with 4 total people on your machine, I wouldn't waste the time, space or money on putting those extra buttons in.

You mean in MAME?  Could you tell me which two games?

4 player DC games can be fun(on a CP, not with breakout controlers).....games such as Powerstone 2, Blitz, Jams, Virtua Tennis.  I am not sure how many buttons these games use however.  May have to dig around and find a manual.

Powerstone 2 - 3 button
Blitz - 4 button
Virtua Tennis - 2 button (for player 3 and 4 at least)

Not sure what "Jams" is.  Sports Jam is 2 buttons.  NBA Jam is 3 buttons but didn't come out for Dreamcast.

It's not looking like you ever need more than 4 buttons on 3 and 4.

I am not sure if the OP is planning on running any other emulators besides MAME such as Dreamcast down the line like I am but it may be nice to be future proof. 

Dreamcast emulation isn't nearly as good as most MAME games.  Given the low cost of Dreamcast hardware now, why not use the real console?  It's especially easy to add, since it can output VGA.  The games are pretty cheap, but you can easily burn ISO's of them if you want to.

If you're concerned about flexibility and being future proof, you should look into a more versatile controller board, like the MC Cthulhu.  I don't know why these aren't talked about more here; they're lag and ghosting free, they work for almost every major video game console as well as PC, and they're firmware updateable for future consoles.  You need one for each player, but at only $35 each it's not too much extra considering that it adds support for a dozen consoles.

Trip

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2012, 07:43:01 pm »
No one knows where to get concave RGB or single color LED pushbuttons?

Also, anyone know where Mameroom sources their RGB joysticks?

Hoopz

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2012, 07:52:43 pm »
Seriously, I think there are just TWO games that use 4 buttons for players 3 and 4.  If you aren't going to play those with 4 total people on your machine, I wouldn't waste the time, space or money on putting those extra buttons in.

You mean in MAME?  Could you tell me which two games?

Dungeons & Dragons: Shadow over Mystara
Dungeons & Dragons: Tower of Doom

Since MAWS is down, it's not easy to search for roms that use four buttons per player.  Romlister can show it but I don't have it on this PC (or roms).

As far as I know, and it's been discussed here for years, those are the only ones that use 4 buttons for P3 & P4.  Even if there are a few more, I doubt it warrants having the extra button.  YMMV.

Peja

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2012, 10:13:21 pm »
Rcade,  according to this site, powerstone 2 is 6 buttons.  http://www.allgame.com/game.php?id=24261&tab=controls

All the others I think you are right on.  you're also right on the nba jam......I meant showtime or hangtime whatever the DC equivalent was. 

Thanks for the info.

rCadeGaming

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2012, 02:15:32 am »
Dungeons & Dragons: Shadow over Mystara
Dungeons & Dragons: Tower of Doom

As far as I know, and it's been discussed here for years, those are the only ones that use 4 buttons for P3 & P4.

Thanks Hoopz

Rcade,  according to this site, powerstone 2 is 6 buttons.  http://www.allgame.com/game.php?id=24261&tab=controls

I have this game, you really only need 3 buttons.  The other 3 are shortcut buttons for things that can all be performed with combinations of the first 3 buttons.

Trip

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2012, 10:24:56 am »
Working on my layout, any criticism on this type of setup.  Brought the 4-way and the spinner down from the top and moved all the frontend buttons to the top center where the 4-way was...  Tried to get the 4-way and the spinner out of the way of the trackball upward movement and not right on top the other 8-ways below it...

rCadeGaming

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2012, 01:02:27 pm »
Trip, the first thing is that those square button layouts will be extremely uncomfortable.  The first CP I built was shaped exactly like that and I couldn't stand it after about five minutes.  If you put your finger tips down on a flat surface you'll notice they don't line up in a straight row, they make an arc.  Trying to conform your fingers to a straight row will cramp your hand.  Placing them across just the bottom row kind of fits, but you will either have to twist your arm at a 45 degree angle (and into player 2's gut) or kill your wrist.

For player 3 and 4, I think 4 buttons across would be much better than 2 over 2.  As discussed above, MAME almost never needs more than 3 buttons for player 3 and 4; 3 across makes sense, 1 over 2 or 2 over 1 does not.

Check out this layout, it's the standard for Japanese arcade cabinets and extremely comfortable:

http://slagcoin.com/joystick/layout/sega1.png

It's shown with 8 buttons there.  Just delete the top right button for player 1 and 2, and delete the whole top row for player 3 and 4 (maybe the bottom right button as well to make it 3 button).  Also, I usually put the stick in the optional wider position (notated by the little circle all the way on the left).  That layout is from this page, which I think is a must read for anyone designing a panel:

http://slagcoin.com/joystick/layout.html

Trying printing out different layouts at full size and putting your hands over them to see how they feel.  Whatever you decide, I would make a rough copy with plain MDF and test play it for a few days before putting all that work into the final copy.  I went through three drafts before finding what I like for a panel.

I hope I don't get a lot of flak for suggesting that layout, I think I'm gonna need a new thread...

Trip

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2012, 01:27:39 pm »
Trying printing out different layouts at full size and putting your hands over them to see how they feel.  Whatever you decide, I would make a rough copy with plain MDF and test play it for a few days before putting all that work into the final copy.  I went through three drafts before finding what I like for a panel.

I am ordering a Mameroom quad panel, so I need to get the design laid out without a rough copy.

Hoopz

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2012, 01:45:36 pm »
I am ordering a Mameroom quad panel, so I need to get the design laid out without a rough copy.
Nope, you NEED to do a mock up so you can figure out if it's functional or not to use.  The last thing you want is to order something and not have it work based upon your layout.  Grab a box of cardboard and draw it out.  Trust me, it's easy to do and you can see how it will "play" or not. 

Or look at your favorite games and see how many put their buttons in rows v. squares.  There's a reason that most games used the same type of layout(s).

rCadeGaming

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2012, 01:53:02 pm »
Yeah, definitely agree with Hoopz here.  That page I linked to has all kinds of layouts, print em out full size to try them, and arrange them in a full mock up on a cardboard box.  You should also be considering panel height and tilt, evaluated from standing position and from a stool.

Trip

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2012, 01:57:01 pm »
Oh I can print out plotter size paper easy, but I am not going to do a wood version.

My favorite games had a weird variety of layouts.  Most are two button side by side and three button L shaped.  Street fighter has the classic 6 button seen on the layout I got from mameroom.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2012, 01:59:20 pm by Trip »

rCadeGaming

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2012, 02:14:02 pm »
There's something you have to realize about the "classic" Street Fighter 3 over 3 square layout.  It sucks.  Your hands are not shaped like that. 

Street Fighter was made in Japan, and it was intended for a 3 over 3 curved layout, which was used for it there.  When it was imported to North America, usually only the boards were brought over.  People who were more concerned with money than how well the game played put these boards into totally different cabinets with lazily arranged controls.

I know this is going to start an argument, but I will make a new thread about this when I have some more time later today.  Let's take it there instead of highjacking this thread.

Trip

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2012, 02:36:21 pm »
Can't look at the other links right now, they are unfortunately blocked, like so many arcade sites, at work for me.   :lol

Did look up the japanese control panels for the street fighter cabs on google images though, so I can see what the curved design is suppose to look like...

Really appreciate the rookie mistakes you guys are teaching me about this aspect.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2012, 02:55:54 pm by Trip »

paigeoliver

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2012, 03:15:53 pm »
I have owned two different Streetfighter 2 machines with the square layout. I have owned a Japanese candy cabinet with the curved layout. I have owned mame cabinets with both the square and the curved layouts.

I would have to say I prefer the square layout. Capcom must have also, since their kits all came with artwork containing the square layout. They invented the square layout, as no game used it before that. The square layout is not laziness. It was the official control layout, the dedicated machines came that way. Even the Japanese flyer for Street Fighter 2 showed the square button layout.

In fact the curved layout is actually a result of the Japanese cabinet builders wanting to support both the existing Neo Geo system and Street Fighter 2 on the same steel control panels. So they put in 3 more buttons below their official pre-existing Neo Geo button layout so they could support street fighter 2. Capcom started doing the 6 button curve thing on their japanese cabinets only after street fighter 2 was already last year's thing. Even then the curve they used was so mild it might as well not be there.

I didn't encounter the curved layout on an actual Capcom machine with artwork on it until Street Fighter IV came out. Even on those machines the curve is very mild.

Street Fighter was made in Japan, and it was intended for a 3 over 3 curved layout, which was used for it there.  When it was imported to North America, usually only the boards were brought over.  People who were more concerned with money than how well the game played put these boards into totally different cabinets with lazily arranged controls.
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rCadeGaming

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2012, 10:01:02 pm »
Can't look at the other links right now, they are unfortunately blocked, like so many arcade sites, at work for me.   :lol

Gotcha, yeah definitely check out those links when you get home.

Here's a thread I made about Japanese sticks, buttons, and button layouts:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=118842.0

I would have to say I prefer the square layout.

That's your preference, and you're entitled to it.  Obviously I disagree, but I'm encouraging Trip to try out all available options determine his own preference as well.  Wanted to raise awareness for the curved layout as it isn't talked about much here.

They invented the square layout, as no game used it before that.

You're probably right that they invented the 6 button layout.  I don't know of any game that used 6 buttons in that way before the original Street Fighter.  Also, you're very likely right that it was originally a square layout even in japan.  SF and SF2 predate the Sega Astro City cabinet.  

However, once the Astro City did come out in 1993, it's curved layout became the standard for 6 button layouts in Japan for many, many years.  Other cabinets there used the same layout or something derived from it.  Btw, the layout I linked to is an exact diagram of the player 1 controls on an Astro City cabinet, it's also the layout used on Hori Real Arcade Pro Sticks:



Moving to a curved button layout to greatly improve comfort and playability was just one of the many improvements to go along with the release of Super Street Fighter II, which came out then as well.

It was the official control layout, the dedicated machines came that way.

As far as I'm aware, Capcom of Japan never made a dedicated SF2 cabinet.  I thought they developed SF2 for their CPS-1 board (later CPS-2 with Super SF2) which went into other manufacturer's cabinets.  Not saying Capcom didn't make dedicated cabs in Japan, I'm just not aware of it.  Can you show me a link to one of these cabinets?  Again, not trying to be a smart-ass, I would like to see one.

In any case, whoever made the first cabinets would have been unfamiliar with a 6 button layout, so they just arranged it simply.  The Astro City quickly came along and improved that, and that became the standard.

EDIT:  Looks like Capcom did make it's own 6-button cabinet in Japan at some point, called the Capcom Impress.  Can't find much info on these (like release date), but they seem to be derived from the Astro City II.  Anyone have any info on this?

their kits all came with artwork containing the square layout.

Are you talking about artwork for a cabinet that was pre-93, or for a cabinet outside of Japan?

In fact the curved layout is actually a result of the Japanese cabinet builders wanting to support both the existing Neo Geo system and Street Fighter 2 on the same steel control panels. So they put in 3 more buttons below their official pre-existing Neo Geo button layout so they could support street fighter 2.

That may very well be the case, but it became the standard after they saw how well it worked.

Capcom started doing the 6 button curve thing on their japanese cabinets only after street fighter 2 was already last year's thing.

The curved layout has been standard for most of the SF franchise.  It was established by the time Super SF2 came out, then there was Super Turbo, Alpha, SFA2, SFA3, SFIII, 2nd Impact, Third Strike, the VS games, etc.

Even then the curve they used was so mild it might as well not be there.

That's quite a stretch.  If you look at the layout I linked to, that's clearly not the case.

I didn't encounter the curved layout on an actual Capcom machine with artwork on it until Street Fighter IV came out. Even on those machines the curve is very mild.

That would be a Taito Vewlix.  Sega's "City" series and similar cabinets were based around CRT monitors, so Third Strike was the last SF game to be designed for them.  Capcom went with the Vewlix for SF4 because it has a 720p flatscreen.  Here is the Vewlix layout, which is also the layout used on Mad Catz Fight Sticks:



It's not so great for 4 button games because there's no curving for the 4th button, but you will notice the 6 buttons used for SF are positioned almost exactly the same as the Astro City layout with the whole thing rotated just a bit.

I stand by my previous statement.  In Japan, the curved layout has been the standard since about 93.  These are all decisions made by executives based the economics anyways.  It's up to custom cabinet builders to make their own decisions based on playability.  I can tell you that most competitive players prefer a curved layout with Japanese parts.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2012, 10:12:18 pm by rCadeGaming »

paigeoliver

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2012, 11:01:10 pm »
The US market had dedicated machines for plenty of the Street Fighter games. A lot of them were dynamo brand cabinets but they still came from Capcom USA with the game already in them.  and all the assorted Street Fighter kits came with control panel artwork for that same square layout.

Capcoms own metal cabinets had far less of a curve than the Astro City cabinets did. Their original CP system cabinets had 3 buttons that would have been in a perfect line except that the first button was a few millimeters lower. Their later six button cabinets were pretty mild on the curve as well.

Here is a picture of a control panel from the dedicated Super Street Fighter 2 control panel (us version of course, since they didn't make dedicated machines in japan). Notice how it still has the square layout.



They were still shipping their game kits with square layout artwork in the Street Fighter 3 and SNK vs. era as well.

Now I am sure real fighting game nuts probably prefer the japanese layout since they are also the same guys who tended to import japanese cabinets and build their own fighting sticks with the Astro City layout. I am just saying that the square layout was the original layout, it isn't lazy, it isn't wrong, and I have still yet to find any evidence of Capcom actually coming out with any button layout specific artwork in any style other than the square layout prior to Street Fighter IV.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2012, 11:09:35 pm by paigeoliver »
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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2012, 12:55:10 am »
The US market had dedicated machines for plenty of the Street Fighter games. A lot of them were dynamo brand cabinets but they still came from Capcom USA with the game already in them.  and all the assorted Street Fighter kits came with control panel artwork for that same square layout.

Here is a picture of a control panel from the dedicated Super Street Fighter 2 control panel (us version of course, since they didn't make dedicated machines in japan). Notice how it still has the square layout.

They were still shipping their game kits with square layout artwork in the Street Fighter 3 and SNK vs. era as well.

I know the US market has always had dedicated cabs and cabs with square layouts, at no point did I disagree with that.  

Capcoms own metal cabinets had far less of a curve than the Astro City cabinets did. Their original CP system cabinets had 3 buttons that would have been in a perfect line except that the first button was a few millimeters lower. Their later six button cabinets were pretty mild on the curve as well.

Again, you're talking US right?  Doesn't look like Capcom Japan made a 6-button cabinet until the Impress cabinet, which seems to postdate the Astro City and uses the same curved layout.

I am just saying that the square layout was the original layout, it isn't lazy, it isn't wrong, and I have still yet to find any evidence of Capcom actually coming out with any button layout specific artwork in any style other than the square layout prior to Street Fighter IV.

I was just saying that in Japan the straight layout was updated to the curved layout very early on, and it was never changed elsewhere due to monetary reasons.

I apologize for saying the square layout is lazy and wrong, I spoke without thinking.  Clearly it's a preference.  Can I just ask you why you prefer the square layout?

Also, the Street Fighter IV layout isn't "Capcom's" layout either, it just happened to be the layout of Taito's Vewlix cabinet, which they decided to use.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 09:02:52 pm by rCadeGaming »

paigeoliver

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2012, 01:17:28 am »
I would have to say at this point we are in agreement.  ;D
Acceptance of Zen philosophy is marred slightly by the nagging thought that if all things are interconnected, then all things must be in some way involved with Pauly Shore.

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2012, 12:22:31 pm »
Just because the Japanese did something doesn't mean it was right.

Hell they still don't realize that you are supposed to cook your fish.
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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2012, 07:39:01 pm »
I think I've already stated a few more reasons why I think it's better than just because it came from Japan; and we should stop arguing it in this thread, we seem to have scared the original poster away!

Just kidding Green Guy, I know you're joking.  You are supposed to be jolly right?


Trip

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2012, 10:11:42 pm »
I'm still here, still looking for a way to get the joysticks, pushbuttons, and trackball I want.  They are all sold out.   :dizzy:

I am getting out of the synched christmas lights hobby (bought a house with a really scary roofline and had a few close saves on the "safe" roofline, LOL.)  I don't think my new neighborhood would put up with my griswald house anyway. 

So I pretty much decided I definitely have to have RGB everything and I really want the GGG stuff.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 10:13:45 pm by Trip »

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #33 on: March 15, 2012, 01:51:48 am »
Which parts did you decide on? 

You mean what's going on at LizardLick?

Trip

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #34 on: March 15, 2012, 07:52:03 am »
Which parts did you decide on?  

You mean what's going on at LizardLick?

I want a whole pile of electric ice 2 pushbuttons.  Trying to see if he will still do the happ supers and competition with the translucent balltops, either by ordering seperately or together, and think I am going to go with the ultimarc trackball and get the GGG RGB upgrade for it.   Would go with the GGG trackball, but I read on here  that getting it to fit with the mameroom cut can be a pain.

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #35 on: March 15, 2012, 10:56:04 am »
If you can't try both to decide for yourself, I would urge you to avoid Happ sticks.  Not only are a lot of people agreeing on the superiority of Japanese sticks and buttons on the other thread (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=118842.0), some are saying Happs are particularly bad, including PaigeOliver.

Seimitsu sells all kinds of transparent buttons, transparent ball tops are available from both Sanwa and Seimitsu, and GGG's Handy Candy ball tops fit a Sanwa JLF or most Seimitsu sticks.

As for lighting them up, I think others have modded Seimitsu clear buttons for LEDs.  Look around and ask on the Shoryuken.com forums about it, look in the Tech Talk section. 

Both JLF's and Seimitsu can be modded for lighting.  A hole has to be drilled down the center of the shaft, sounds like a pain in the ass but you could take it to a machine shop and get it done pretty cheap.  Look and ask on Shoryuken.

Just want to make sure you're not focusing more on looks than playability.  Arcade cabinets are for playing arcade games, I just don't think it makes sense to build one that looks better than it plays.

Trip

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2012, 12:51:04 pm »
Just want to make sure you're not focusing more on looks than playability.  Arcade cabinets are for playing arcade games, I just don't think it makes sense to build one that looks better than it plays.

I don't think this is a correct statement at all.  Not all arcade cabinets are for playing.  A lot of people have them as show pieces, historical value, and just as a sentimental piece in their homes.  There are probably a lot of restorations out there, that just sit in the corner and are very rarely played.

Looks in some departments are probably more important than playability to me.  Which is why I am using a business to get the machine put together for me.  I know this won't sit right with a lot of DIYers, but that is what is important to me in my machine.  One of my MUST have things for me is concave buttons.  Finding these in good quality in light up version has been a real pain in the butt.  As far as ball tops, I would really like the translucent and that has been hard to find as well.

I would like it to play well, but just playing decent is alright with me.  
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 12:52:40 pm by Trip »

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #37 on: March 15, 2012, 02:33:07 pm »
In the end, the best cabinet for you is the one that makes you happy.   As is the case with cars, houses, tv's, etc.  everyone has an idea of what the virtues of each are.  Based on that, some people drive a Prius (not me) and others drive a truck.  Some people like a two story colonial and others like a ranch.  It is no different with an arcade cabinet. 

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2012, 03:28:06 pm »
Not all arcade cabinets are for playing.  A lot of people have them as show pieces, historical value, and just as a sentimental piece in their homes.  There are probably a lot of restorations out there, that just sit in the corner and are very rarely played.

You're right, I should have said "to me arcade cabinets are for playing arcade games."  I certainly appreciate certain old cabinets that been restored to mint condition in an unmodified/original/authentic way; but I think it's a shame when any cabinet is never played.

Looks in some departments are probably more important than playability to me.

One of my MUST have things for me is concave buttons.  Finding these in good quality in light up version has been a real pain in the butt.  As far as ball tops, I would really like the translucent and that has been hard to find as well.

I would like it to play well, but just playing decent is alright with me.

In your case, I just don't think optimum playability requires any sacrifice in the looks you want, at least in terms of joystick and button layout. 

I'm not sure what you mean about it being difficult to find a translucent ball top.  GGG's Hand Candy ball tops come in 7 clear colors and will fit a Sanwa JLF or a Seimitsu stick.  They are in stock here:

http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=70&products_id=368

Seimitsu's clear bubble tops will also fit Seimitsu sticks as well as Sanwa JLF's.  Some are out of stock at LizardLick, but they're all available here:

http://www.akihabarashop.jp/index.php?cPath=108&osCsid=a2f3c6593e8066c575a4935cdf68e49e

The Sanwa JLF's and Seimitsu sticks themselves can be found here:

http://www.akihabarashop.jp/index.php?cPath=107&osCsid=a2f3c6593e8066c575a4935cdf68e49e

Like I said, you can look into adding LED's to either of these sticks, plenty of people have done it.  If you're not up for doing the work yourself, you could probably hire someone on the Shoryuken.com forums.

For the buttons themselves, if you must have lighted concave buttons I don't know where you find would them, that's a tough situation.  Did you try starting another thread about that?

Trip

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #39 on: March 15, 2012, 03:45:03 pm »
Translucent is different than those clear ones.  I am wanting more of the ghostly white color.  If it comes to it, I will go clear RGB buttons offered by IL or single color ones offered by IL and use the clear balltops you posted.  

I still have a month or two before I start ordering, so I am waiting to see if I can find an alternative to GGG or if GGG gets their stock back in.

I have yet to talk to the guys over at GGG, I been trying to contact them through this site and through their contact us page.   Had not had a lot of luck as of yet, but it's only been a day or two.

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2012, 04:26:01 pm »
Translucent is different than those clear ones.

Sorry, didn't realize that.  If you want something really customized to your exact idea, I think there are people who make one-off custom ball tops on Shoryuken.

For lighting the sticks, I found some pre-drilled stick shafts for sale, so you wouldn't have to worry about that:

http://www.focusattack.com/short-sanwa-jlf-stainless-steel-hollow-joystick-shaft/

That fits a JLF.  It's the same dimensions as the stock shaft, but they call it the "short" shaft because they also sell a longer one.  They also have short and long hollow shafts for the Seimitsu LS-32.

Trip

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2012, 09:36:25 pm »
Translucent is different than those clear ones.

Sorry, didn't realize that.  If you want something really customized to your exact idea, I think there are people who make one-off custom ball tops on Shoryuken.

For lighting the sticks, I found some pre-drilled stick shafts for sale, so you wouldn't have to worry about that:

http://www.focusattack.com/short-sanwa-jlf-stainless-steel-hollow-joystick-shaft/

That fits a JLF.  It's the same dimensions as the stock shaft, but they call it the "short" shaft because they also sell a longer one.  They also have short and long hollow shafts for the Seimitsu LS-32.

This could work out, paradise sells the joysticks you recommend and hollow short shafts for them.  I wondered what the difference was between the long and short and thanks for the tip that the short are the regular versions.  They don't have balltops I like, really dislike the bubbly ones...  Will have to see if I can find the custom ones on shoryuken.

http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/en/paradise-arcade-custom-parts/422-sanwa-jlf-stainless-steel-hollow-joystick-shaft.html

Now I need to find some buttons.  I may just get some IL clear ones from paradise with RGB and maybe get some clear balltops instead of going translucent.  What do you think of IL buttons paradise sells?

http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/en/59-il-translucent-buttons
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 09:38:36 pm by Trip »

Trip

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Re: Controls controls controls...Noob learning
« Reply #42 on: April 05, 2012, 07:11:13 pm »
Yey, got a bunch of EI2's and Sanwa JLFs!