NES Arcade controls

[kuehnau]

OK so, it's been a long time, but I've always wanted to build an arcade cabinet of some sort, I just was never sure what. The other day I got an idea for a cabinet I wanted to build so I am now thinking up plans.

I want to design a Nintendo arcade cabinet based around the original 8bit NES system. I have an old computer and monitor laying around, but I decided I wanted to actually use a NES system. It won't be hard for me to find a NES and a old TV laying around that are suitable for the project.

Right now I have a question about the controls. I'd like to actually wire in arcade controls so it feels more like an authenticate arcade cabinet. Now I've seen two types of controllers hard wired already, one of them a person takes apart a NES controller and solders the wires to the internals of the NES controller. The other one, a person actually built a  board controller for the controls.

Is there another way? I'd like to actually wire the arcade controls directly to the plug for the controllers that go into the NES, so that I can easily plug and unplug the arcade controls at my discretion, or is soldering them to the inside of the NES pad the most effective way?

Any other tips or hints for this project would be appreciated, this is my first ever project and I am pretty new at EVERYTHING.

[YoGaBaR]

I dont really understand what you are trying to do but.. Are you trying to build a NES with a computer inside and have a seperate like control panel that can be plugged in via USB? Or are you building a real arcade cab and wanting to know how to connect the control pannel to the computer?

Anyways i would suggest an encoder like IPAC or GPWIZ they are easy to hook up the controls to a computer.

Hope that helps.

[yotsuya]

Just a word of advice- I hated playing NES games with a joystick and arcade buttons. I took them all off my cab. I'm planning on building a console emulator one day, but I'll use gamepads.

Having said that, good luck on your project.

[elkameleon]

He's basically wanting to build a playchoice 10 with a real NES inside... I'm sorry, but I think thats a bad idea, I would just go with the computer.

[Nephasth]

If you go with an NES, pick up a PowerPak, you'll never have to change cartridges.

[elkameleon]

135 bucks for that PowerPak?! Seriously, go with the PC and save yourself some time/money/headaches.

[Nephasth]

Look at from an arcade view, playing arcade roms in an emulator on a MAME rig is nothing like playing on real hardware. With a PowerPak, you can play your NES roms on real hardware. Some people are just as nuts over NES as others are over arcade games. I got a PowerPak a little over a year and a half ago. It brought back a lot of nostalgia and in the process kind of opened the door to owning arcade machines and putting together the Beast. I don't regret buying it, but I'll admit, it doesn't get used as much since the big games entered the house.

[mgb]

I think its kind of a cool idea. I've thought about it myself before. Many NES games play fine with arcade controls. You may wanna wrap the actuator for quick tight response.
You cant just wire arcade controls right up to the plug on the console though. you should just go the route of hacking into actual game pads.

Definitely the power pack would be the way to go if using a console. I would say the console setup is more reliable than a pc using emulation.

[DaveMMR]

Heh, when it comes between emulation (even official vc releases) and a real NES, I will always choose the latter. I spent much time on the console and I notice the little things that are "off". So I don't think the OP's plan is bad at all. And I used to love using my NES Advantage.

It really shouldn't be too hard a project. Hack up some pads and use some Molex connectors to switch out if needed for arcade games.

[FALSE]

OK so, it's been a long time, but I've always wanted to build an arcade cabinet of some sort, I just was never sure what. The other day I got an idea for a cabinet I wanted to build so I am now thinking up plans.

I want to design a Nintendo arcade cabinet based around the original 8bit NES system. I have an old computer and monitor laying around, but I decided I wanted to actually use a NES system. It won't be hard for me to find a NES and a old TV laying around that are suitable for the project.

Right now I have a question about the controls. I'd like to actually wire in arcade controls so it feels more like an authenticate arcade cabinet. Now I've seen two types of controllers hard wired already, one of them a person takes apart a NES controller and solders the wires to the internals of the NES controller. The other one, a person actually built a  board controller for the controls.

Is there another way? I'd like to actually wire the arcade controls directly to the plug for the controllers that go into the NES, so that I can easily plug and unplug the arcade controls at my discretion, or is soldering them to the inside of the NES pad the most effective way?

Any other tips or hints for this project would be appreciated, this is my first ever project and I am pretty new at EVERYTHING.

IMO opinion the easiest way is like mgb said, hack the game pads.
You would have the arcade controls and the control pad all contained inside the same box or unit or whatever.
To unhook the arcade controls from the nes you would just unplug the control pad cord from the nes.

[kuehnau]

Well, to be honest I really decided on working with the NES itself for the sake of simplicity. Throw in a NES, a TV and wire up some controls and it should be good to go. I am well aware of the PowerPak (and it's outrageous price) and have made plans to buy one at some point in the future, but for the time being, it's not that big of a deal to just pick up a copy of Mario Bros. and have the cabinet run that until I decide I want to invest the money in a PowerPak. I actually have a SNES laying around, so I guess I could save even more time and money by just using that.

Since I am new to electronics and soldering, I am going to buy a controller and the arcade controllers in advance and set up a mock board with cardboard to make sure I do it right before I got and do the rest of the project first.

[paigeoliver]

I did this like 10 years ago. Soldering up a nes pad is the most effective way. Trying to build some kind of Nes encoder would be more work than it is worth.

Although I also get the feeling that there is something you either aren't getting across, or that we aren't understanding. Ultimately the controls are going to be plugged into the Nes one way or the other and of course they could be unplugged, so why are you asking about that?

The Nes would be superior to the Snes for a project like this. The Snes has a lot more buttons and it can be awkward to play some Snes games on arcade controls as they were specifically designed for the diamond plus shoulder buttons gamepad layout that the snes had.

[paigeoliver]

Also, you may want to think about using one of those new reproduction Nes consoles (or the combo Nes/Snes ones), as it would be a lot easier to install it in such a way that it would be easy to put games in and take them out, as opposed to messing around with an original front load nes.

Something like this.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-SILVER-RETRO-DUO-TWIN-SUPER-NINTENDO-NES-SNES-GAME-CONSOLE-SYSTEM-/290678219962?

Or this.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Red-Retro-NES-System-in-Box-Plays-NES-games-/370570606832?

Also. I may be in the minority here, but I have always found playing Nes games emulated to be far superior to the real hardware just for the improved saving and loading features you can get on the emulator.

[wizkid32]

I'm pretty sure that hacking NES controllers is the best way to get what you are looking for.  I think the whole thing is a great idea, and it is best to use original hardware.

[Well Fed Games]

If you go with an NES, pick up a PowerPak, you'll never have to change cartridges.

I've got everything I need to make a mini red tent bartop (2x13" tvs, sticks, buttons, NES, etc.), just need to get a powerpak. Waiting as it is way down on my list of projects...

Look forward to this build, as I will probably steal ideas from it in the future...

[Jack Burton]

There's definitely some games on SNES that would benefit from an arcade setup.  There are a wealth of shooters and fighting games that were only released for the console.  R-type III immediately comes to mind. 

Personally though, I would use the joystick and buttons that are in the red tent vs. cocktail cabinets.  Technically, they are vastly inferior to using a controller, or even better quality joysticks and buttons.  However, the springy, spongy feel of the joystick gives games like a VS super mario bros. a whole new level of drama when trying to navigate what would normally be simple obstacles.   It just feels more arcade-y and right.  

One other thing.  Did you know the SNES controller is the same as the NES controller plus the extra buttons?  There are adapters out there that will adapt the plug on a SNES controller to work with the NES.  There's no input delay or anything, it's just a physical adapter.

[Blanka]

Just buy 2 NES Advantage sticks. They are both NES suited, and Arcade savvy!

[MaximRecoil]

Just buy 2 NES Advantage sticks. They are both NES suited, and Arcade savvy!

Those aren't even remotely arcade-quality joysticks and buttons.

@kuehnau: One option is to get yourself a PlayChoice-10 machine, and I'm pretty sure there are modifications you can do (custom EPROMs I believe) to play NES games on it. By doing this you already have the arcade controls, RGB video quality, and an arcade monitor (or 2 arcade monitors in the case of the Punch-Out style PC-10 machines).

With an NES, you are stuck at composite video quality, which isn't great by any means. It may look fine on a TV with a decent comb filter while sitting on the couch, but it is not so good when viewed close up while playing an arcade machine. There is an RGB mod for the NES (which involves getting ahold of a PC-10 GPU), but from what I've read, there doesn't seem to be any perfect way of doing; there are various designs for the mod (making an RGB amp seems to be the tricky part) and mixed results from people who have attempted the mod.

With a PC and an emulator, you get an RGB video signal, but not one suitable for an arcade monitor (because it is at least 31 KHz instead of 15 KHz); and using a PC monitor with NES graphics looks bad. Of course you could get an ArcadeVGA or use a software solution to output a 15 KHz video signal, but of course it is emulation and not real hardware.

A Famicom Titler would be ideal for what you are trying to do, as it is officially licensed hardware and it natively generates an RGB video signal, the same as the PC-10 does. You'd still have to do an RGB mod because it doesn't have RGB outputs, but it is a lot more straightforward than with a NES, because the RGB signal is already there internally; you just need to tap into it.

To control a NES game with arcade controls you'd need to hack a NES controller, or do what this guy did and build your own logic board which mimics the innards of an SNES/NES controller.

[kuehnau]

Alright, I'll try my best to address everything from the new responses.

About the controller question; sometimes I get anal about stuff, I know it might not make sense to other people, but it was a thought I had. I didn't want a ugly ass, hacked into NES pad inside the cabinet, because much like my computer, I am planning on keeping it as tidy as possible on the inside.

When I first thought of the NES controllers, I noticed they have a lot of pins on the end of the connector. I had briefly thought that maybe each pin on the connector was supposed to represent a button (please keep in mind I am a electrical newbie), which I quickly realized if that was the case, there wasn't enough pins. After looking at the diagrams for the NES controllers I realized each pin had a purpose but not the ones I had thought. I had wanted to be able to just splice the arcade controls into the NES controller cable and that be it, I now know that's not a possibility.

I know about the logic board, there is no way I am even bothering with that. I am starting this project because it seems the simplest for me and I want to take baby steps, like I said before,  I am brand new at all of this and it's a little intimidating.

I had thought about using the computer for just NES emulation, but then I would have wanted it all set up so you didn't see Windows and it had a nice front end and all this other stuff. When I looked online, I couldn't find a NES Emulator Front End. Does MAME run other roms then just arcade games? If that was the case, then I might reconsider using MAME just to run NES games for my NES cabinet.

I also didn't want to dick around with a I-Pac just yet. I am sure it's really easy, but so is soldering some wires to a NES controller. After doing some math, I'd end up saving some money using a NES VS a computer (not taking the PowerPak into account of course) .

I am aware of the NES advantage controller, but I just feel like it wouldn't look as good. I had thought about trying to think of a way of just incorporated the NES advantage into the cabinet so it looked like normal arcade controls. I don't know how that'd work though. If someone has any insight on this though, please feel free to comment. With that being said, I have been looking for arcade buttons that look or mimic the start and select buttons (in shape and color) and have had no luck. I have also been looking for buttons with printed letters on them (A and B) but haven't seen any yet, if anyone knows something I don't, please let me know.

I do not want to get a reproduction NES system because a lot of them suffer from incorrect colors, sounds and some incompatibility issues with games. I can buy a old NES front loader for $20.00 and repair the 72-pin connector for free.

As for the cabinet, right now I got a feeling I am going to be building it. I honestly didn't really want to and I have been scouring my local area and the internet for cabinets I might be able to buy or pick up, but they are either too far out of my way or way too expensive. I am trying to do this as cheap as possible and I don't want to drop $300.00+ on one of those damn arcade cabinet kits so many sites sell. One guy 4 hours away from me had a TMNT 4-Player cabinet he'd sell me for $30.00 with everything intact, but I just couldn't find a chance to go out there.

[HaRuMaN]

Hack the controllers.  Always my first choice.   

[dandare]

Hack the controllers.  Always my first choice.   

Amen.

if you dont want to do it yourself im sure there's someone round here who can do a nice neat pad hack at a good price 

how about something like this for start/select buttons? you can put labels inside them
http://www.gremlinsolutions.co.uk/products/rectangulapushbuttons.htm

[kuehnau]

I just found out a friend of mine has like a whole wood working shop and told me he can make pretty much anything. Does anyone know where I can get some blue prints or designs for a cabinet?

[Hoopz]

http://www.jakobud.com/

or

http://www.amazon.com/Project-Arcade-Build-Your-Machine/dp/047089153X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1331141192&sr=8-1

[kuehnau]

I just realized at some point people may want to turn off or reset their NES. So now I am wondering how the best way to wire in a power and reset button would be.

[paigeoliver]

Crack open the system and wire it up. Another reason I suggested using a top loading clone rather than an original.

I just realized at some point people may want to turn off or reset their NES. So now I am wondering how the best way to wire in a power and reset button would be.

[kuehnau]

if I didn't care about authenticity then I would have just went with a computer to begin with, ignoring the fact most reproduction systems cost twice as much as a old NES would.

[fallacy]

Do what this guy did. Buy an x-arcade and change the graphic to NES.

[mgb]

Do what this guy did. Buy an x-arcade and change the graphic to NES.

That doesn't get rid of the task of wiring it into the nes

[dandare]

Or rid of the fact its an x-arcade.

nice overlay though.