Small Problem - Response time? Hardware prob? Software prob?

[topdawgg]

I used to play so many hours of Street fighter it was really sad.  I could easily throw 100fireballs from Ryu in a row.

When I play on my mame system (mame 0.145 with mala), I can only throw about 1 out of every 3 fireballs.  I also noticed when I set up the controls within mame I would press up and it would take about 1 second to actually show as a new input (I assumed this was just a mame thing and now I am not so sure).

So heres the question, is this a hardware issue (connectors not hitting right/well), encoder response time, or some software issue?  Where do i start trying to figure this out?  I am using a 10 year old encoder if that makes a difference.

3.0 Dual Core, 8800Gtx, 2gigs ram

[BobA]

What encoder are you using?  How is is connected?

[topdawgg]

Its a keywiz encoder.  Its connected through the keyboard port

[kahlid74]

That sure sounds like a controller issue.  I would also make sure your button connections for contact and ground are solidly connected.

[Louis Tully]

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[topdawgg]

hmm its hard to try that because I only seem to get it when throwing fireballs and fast moving games that need combos... cant do those combos on a keybaord

My connections are all done with solder... so im pretty sure they have solid connections.  I mean I can run through and make sure everything is attached well...

So, you guys think it has to be a hardware issue not software then?

[GregD]

Not all solder connections are good.  It is worth a look.  You could have a cold solder joint within the daisy chained ground.

[topdawgg]

umm... not sure what that means   But I will check the connections to the best of my knowledge

[RandyT]

hmm its hard to try that because I only seem to get it when throwing fireballs and fast moving games that need combos... cant do those combos on a keybaord

My connections are all done with solder... so im pretty sure they have solid connections.  I mean I can run through and make sure everything is attached well...

So, you guys think it has to be a hardware issue not software then?

The best way to troubleshoot is to go into notepad, or any application which tests keyboards (like Ghostkey), and watch the output when you are doing the moves with the stick.  If the output doesn't reflect what you are doing, then look to it being a joystick issue of some nature.  Maybe a wonky switch, connection or wire.  You can test with a wire connected to ground, by touching the input terminal with the stripped end.  This will bypass the joystick and help you pinpoint where the issue might be.

Also, since you say the encoder is 10 years old, unless you purchased the Eco version, your Keywiz probably has a large socketed processor chip.  It's possible that due to humidity, etc, that the contacts on the chip socket might have tarnished a tiny bit, and are not giving proper connections to the pins.  Usually, re-seating the chip will take care of this.  This is unlikely to be the cause, however, as in those cases, it's usually an "all or nothing" situation and not intermittent.  Still might be worth a try.

Finally, try replacing the PS/2 cable, if you have one around.  It could have become damaged and is interfering with communication.  If this were the case, then it wouldn't just be the "UP" direction giving you grief, but it's still something to consider.

RandyT

[kahlid74]

I would also make sure your joystick/buttons are contacting with the switches accurately.  Made the contact is not as solid as it should be and when being rapidly pressed it doesn't register?

[topdawgg]

The contacts always work.  They just seem slow sometimes when playing really fast games.  I will try everything mentioned in this post.

[RandyT]

The contacts always work.  They just seem slow sometimes when playing really fast games.  I will try everything mentioned in this post.

I also noticed when I set up the controls within mame I would press up and it would take about 1 second to actually show as a new input (I assumed this was just a mame thing and now I am not so sure).

If you are only experiencing the above on the "UP" direction, then something is amiss.  Either it's an intermittent contact (meaning it actually took a second before contact was made, for whatever reason) or there is something else causing that specific problem.  If you are experiencing the same thing on other inputs, then you may have a system issue.  Scan for viruses, keyloggers, etc...anything which may be intercepting or modifying keyboard input.

If the above symptom went away, and/or the output you see in another app (notepad, etc.) is consistent with your actions, consider using a different joystick.  The one you played on in the arcades is likely different than the one you are using now.  Your ability to pull off those moves reliably could be related to the control.

[kahlid74]

The contacts always work.  They just seem slow sometimes when playing really fast games.  I will try everything mentioned in this post.

Randy knows more about the encoder than I do but I have to agree with him that if it's specific buttons, it feels a heck of a lot like specific contacts.  If all buttons were effected I would lean towards an encoder issue.  What about the contacts on the large socket chip?  Maybe one of those is specifically for up and it's gotten oxidized and needs to be reseated like Randy said?

[topdawgg]

It feels like the buttons react but the control is slow.  Is it possible that the contacts on the control are a little further away.  Meaning.... when i press foward it doesnt activate the foward until i press it all the way... not reacting ON the way....  If that is the case can I make the contact closer to the movement of the joystick?  Ugh...

Not sure if that made any sense.

Btw, all my controls/buttons are from happ

[RandyT]

Btw, all my controls/buttons are from happ

Contact won't be made until you hear that "click" of the switch.  If it doesn't click until you are at the full travel of the stick, then that is likely your issue.  If you can shorten the stick by using a different e-clip groove and removing a spacer, I suggest that you try this.  A shorter stick has a shorter throw, and better response.  Also, the current design of the Suzo/HAPP buttons has a small gap between the plunger leg and the switch actuator.  This means that they need to go down a bit before they even contact the switch actuator, and even further before the switch actuates.  If you are looking for hair trigger response, I'm afraid these won't be the best choice.

[topdawgg]

Is there a way to test if that is the actual problem? 

I know when I click "Down / Left on the joystick" in mame to set the down/left to those controls... there is a half second pause (after I hear the click) until when it shows up in mame... is that the same or probabaly different?

[Louis Tully]

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[ZeroPoint]

Try Mame 0.143. There is something "fishy" about 0.145 (slooooooooooow). In MESS 0.145 I get only 70% speed in for example C64 and slow response while it's 100% in 0.143. Worth a try, maybe ?

[topdawgg]

Will do.  I thought to throw a fireball you must go Down, Right/Down, Right + button?  Doesnt unmapping that .... well whatever I will try it lol

[Louis Tully]

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[topdawgg]

Hmm ok.  Should I unmap all the diagonals then?  Unmap it in general?

[Louis Tully]

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[topdawgg]

Test Results -

When I test a button in notepad (including the up/down/left/right), the MOMENT i hear "click" the item happens immediately.
When I set button 1 or left or anything within mame (config panel), I will hear the "click" sound and about 1.5 seconds later mame changes my button.

Now I know there isnt a 1.5 second lag within the games, but this issue of not throwing a fireball consistently could be related.  I took a picture of my joystick and I did notice (thanks to Randy), that there is "wiggle" room in the joystick before the "click" sound.  I am not sure if there is a way to tighten this.  Actually joystick 2 is worse than joystick 1.

P.S.  here is a picture of my rig too

[RandyT]

You are in luck.  You can adjust the metal levers on those switches to take out any slop.  You can do this by pushing the lever all the way down until it's flat against the top of the switch body, and while holding it there tightly, bend the metal lever up just a bit.  Do this until you have it so that it just makes contact with the joystick actuator when centered.  If you do this on all of the switches, it should tighten up the action.  Also, before you start tweaking the switches, make sure you don't have the actuator upside down.  The larger end is the one that should be against the levers.

RandyT

[topdawgg]

You are in luck.  You can adjust the metal levers on those switches to take out any slop.  You can do this by pushing the lever all the way down until it's flat against the top of the switch body, and while holding it there tightly, bend the metal lever up just a bit.  Do this until you have it so that it just makes contact with the joystick actuator when centered.  If you do this on all of the switches, it should tighten up the action.  Also, before you start tweaking the switches, make sure you don't have the actuator upside down.  The larger end is the one that should be against the levers.

RandyT

Umm i think it may be upside down.  I put this together about 6 years ago and I dont remember how to put them together and take them apart lol.  Here is a picture.  The larger area is not touching the metal levers... the smaller area is.

[Louis Tully]

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[RandyT]

Bigger problems.  The stick isn't put together correctly either.

Look at this diagram.

Once you get the pieces in the right places, I think you will be ok.

[topdawgg]

hmm looking at the diagram i dont see where i am off but i will take it apart today.   

[brad808]

That bottom cone shouldn't there it should be somewhere else. The piece with two cones should be flipped over so the big side is hitting the microswitches

[RandyT]

hmm looking at the diagram i dont see where i am off but i will take it apart today.   

You have the conical plastic piece on the bottom.  It needs to go between the shaft spacer and the base, with the narrow end up.  Without this part in the correct position and orientation, the stick does not work correctly.

[BobA]

hmm looking at the diagram i dont see where i am off but i will take it apart today.  

You have the conical plastic piece on the bottom.  It needs to go between the shaft spacer and the base, with the narrow end up.  Without this part in the correct position and orientation, the stick does not work correctly.

+1 for Randy

The conical piece goes inside the joystick pointed end first.  The piece with the 2 cones is the last plastic piece on the shaft before the E clip and should be fat end down for 8 way and slimmer end down for 4 way.

[topdawgg]

Wow im an idiot.  Now I am worried.  The small cone needs to be moved to be right under the circle spacer.... which means I need to take THE ENTIRE control panel apart. 

Is the control panel even going to go back together.  I feel like I will be adding a spacer (the small cone) between the plexi and the MDF.

Ethier way I appreicate it.

[RandyT]

Wow im an idiot.  Now I am worried.  The small cone needs to be moved to be right under the circle spacer.... which means I need to take THE ENTIRE control panel apart.  

Is the control panel even going to go back together.  I feel like I will be adding a spacer (the small cone) between the plexi and the MDF.

This shouldn't be too bad to do.  Take the e-clip off the shaft, pull the shaft, assemble the parts correctly, put it back into the base and re-attach the e-clip.  Be aware that the sticks will be higher than before.  I'm guessing you probably don't have the short spacer anymore, as these weren't installed recently.  You'll either need to deal with the higher stick, or, assuming you are using the long one currently, find the short spacer.

[topdawgg]

Wow im an idiot.  Now I am worried.  The small cone needs to be moved to be right under the circle spacer.... which means I need to take THE ENTIRE control panel apart.  

Is the control panel even going to go back together.  I feel like I will be adding a spacer (the small cone) between the plexi and the MDF.

This shouldn't be too bad to do.  Take the e-clip off the shaft, pull the shaft, assemble the parts correctly, put it back into the base and re-attach the e-clip.  Be aware that the sticks will be higher than before.  I'm guessing you probably don't have the short spacer anymore, as these weren't installed recently.  You'll either need to deal with the higher stick, or, assuming you are using the long currently, find the short spacer.

Maybe I just dont get it.  The small cone needs to go above the unit, below the circle spacer.  The base to the unit is screwed in between the plexi and the wood... so i gotta take off the molding, seperate everything then reassemble

[BobA]

No the dotted position lines are split.  The small cone goes in from the bottom and the pipe with the flange (short or long) goes in from the top.   You only have to work with the bottom of your joystick to correct it.\

[topdawgg]

No the dotted position lines are split.  The small cone goes in from the bottom and the pipe with the flange (short or long) goes in from the top.   You only have to work with the bottom of your joystick to correct it.\

lolol think i understand.  I will try it out soon.  You guys rock.

[Hoopz]

Be careful when you pop the e-clip off.  It'll fly anywhere if you don't have it covered with a towel or have it in a pair of pliers.  FYI...

[RandyT]

Be careful when you pop the e-clip off.  It'll fly anywhere if you don't have it covered with a towel or have it in a pair of pliers.  FYI...

I might as well use this opportunity to provide an "e-clip" tip

What I do is use a small, flat screwdriver which fits into the gap between the clip and the shaft.  Hold your thumb on the outside of the clip where the gap is, and your index finger on the other side, insert the screwdriver into the gap and carefully twist.  If the clip wants to fly, it will do so in the direction where your thumb is placed, so it doesn't go anywhere.  I haven't lost a clip in years using this method.

[topdawgg]

THANK YOU EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD!!!!!

Changing the controls the way they are supposed to be.... = throwing fireballs like a champ!!!!

You guys are awesome.