Analog+ XP!!!

[SirPoonga]

Go urebel, Go Jake.  I need to try it yet...

[u_rebelscum]

Tell us how it goes.  Be sure to let us know of any bugs.  I only was able to test on a friend's computer.  (Not that I think there are any, but just in case )

[jerryjanis]

Also, I only have USB mice.  If you have any PS/2 or serial mice, please try them out and let me know if they work with the -multimousexp.

[Howard_Casto]

Just tried with one ps2 and one usb.  Works great!  Dangit guys I just about have my modular panels finished and now I have to squeeze in two trackballs!  

[SirPoonga]

what's resetmouseaxes?

[jerryjanis]

resetmouseaxes - When you start MameAnalog+, this will reset the mouse mappings (player 1 -> mouse 1, player 2 -> mouse2, etc.), as if you had erased the config files.  It was really useful while debugging code, but I'm not sure what you'd need it for otherwise.

[SirPoonga]

Ok, I am able to try with 2 usb and a ps/2.  Will try with 3 usb and 1 ps/2 tomorrow.

Here's the problems I am having.  My settings:
### Analog+ options ###
analogpedal             1
singlemouse             0
switchablemice          1
switchmiceaxes          1
splitmouseaxes          1
resetmouseaxes          0
lightgun2a              0
lightgun2b              0
multimouse_winxp        1

I tried rampart and atarifb.
First, the selectable mouse axis, everything defaults to 1x.  EVERYTHING.  Even if I restart the game.  
Second, 1st USB is player 1, ps/2 is player 2, 2nd USB is player 3.  WTF!  Is there a utility to determine which mouse is in what order before mame starts.  It's really annoying to try and figure it out.

[jerryjanis]

First, the selectable mouse axis, everything defaults to 1x.

Make sure that you set both "mouse" AND "multimouse_winxp" to 1:

### Input device options ###
mouse                   1

Also, you shouldn't be setting "splitmouseaxes".  Splitmouseaxes gives each player a single mouse axis.  This is supposed to be used for spinner games, like sprint 4 to automatically give each player a separate mouse axis.  It is not appropriate for a trackball game.

Same goes for "switchmiceaxes".  It gives you the ability to link each mouse axis with an in-game mouse axis.  It's good when you need to divvy out each axis, like in spinner games.  "Switchablemice" is more appropriate for a trackball game because it enables you to link a whole mouse (both axes) with an in-game trackball.


Here's what it should look like for a trackball game:
### Analog+ options ###
analogpedal             1
singlemouse             0
switchablemice          1
switchmiceaxes          0
splitmouseaxes          0
resetmouseaxes          0
lightgun2a              0
lightgun2b              0
multimouse_winxp        1

Is there a utility to determine which mouse is in what order before mame starts.

No, not that I know of.  This will only work if you have mouse buttons (I suspect some cabinet trackballs don't), but what I did sometimes was to go to "Input (this game)" and map a mouse button to "P3 1 button 1".  If I have multiple mice set up properly, the button name will be "Mouse x button y".  I do this with all the mice, and I know which mouse is which.

[Lilwolf]

Damn you guys!  I just got my game machine setup with 98se... why?  because I didn't have much of a choice!

Damn you all!  

Now to put a real operating system on them!  

GREAT JOB!  

[hyiu]

sorry to jump in with little / no knowledge of this....

but with XP..... and multi mouse....

my mind pops up with 2 Act-Labs light gun ....
 

can someone try ....

[GamingGreg]

Great Work Guys!   I'll have to try this out when I get home.  

Too bad the standard ActLab light guns are on back-order until the end of October.  

[jerryjanis]

my mind pops up with 2 Act-Labs light gun ....can someone try ....

U_rebelscum told me that he tried it and it worked.

Too bad the standard ActLab light guns are on back-order until the end of October.

Oh, man, that's a bummer, I better order a second one now!

[shmokes]

Yeah...I ordered my pair last April and still haven't got them.  I ordered the TV-out ones of course.  I haven't even checked the ACT-labs website for a couple months.  My excitement for these guns has waned a bit over the last five months since I ordered.

[SirPoonga]

mouse                   1

of course, otherwise I wouldn;t get any mouse

Also, you shouldn't be setting "splitmouseaxes".  Splitmouseaxes gives each player a single mouse axis.  This is supposed to be used for spinner games, like sprint 4 to automatically give each player a separate mouse axis.  It is not appropriate for a trackball game.

I know, but I am testing it, not making it useful!.  All axis for every player defaulted to 1x.  Even after I restarted the game.  The settings weren't saved was my point.  And unless I make an ini file just for each of the tball games I'm going to put these settings in my mame.ini to affect both tball and spinner games.

[SirPoonga]

Is there a utility to determine which mouse is in what order before mame starts.

No, not that I know of.  This will only work if you have mouse buttons (I suspect some cabinet trackballs don't), but what I did sometimes was to go to "Input (this game)" and map a mouse button to "P3 1 button 1".  If I have multiple mice set up properly, the button name will be "Mouse x button y".  I do this with all the mice, and I know which mouse is which.

No, this effects knowing which mouse controls which player.  Like I would have thought ps/2 would have controlled an edge player (player 1 or player 3 in a three mouse setup) but no, it controlled player 2.  I think a utility will need to be setup to determine which order mame will see these mice.

[Howard_Casto]

I might be able to answer this one sirp, but it's not the answer you want.  Since xp is designed to ignore raw input I don't think the developers were really concerned about which mouse gets what priority. By my testings in the past it depends on the manufacturer, the input type, and what order the mice were plugged in.  Usually if the mice are generic enough it's the latter.  So unplug all of your mice and plug them in in the order in which you want them to show up.

Might work, might not, but it's worth a shot.  

[jerryjanis]

It's not pretty, but there's a program that should display the mice in the MameAnalog order.  Download the "Rawmouse Package" from the downloads section on my rawmouse page and run the "a.exe" program that's contained within.  It shows the sysmouse as mouse 0 and the other mice as 1..n, so they should be numbered the same as in Mame.  You have to jiggle the mice to tell which is which.  You gotta restart the program if you do any mouse swapping.

http://jstookey.com/arcade/rawmouse/raw_mouse_source_code.zip

[jerryjanis]

So unplug all of your mice and plug them in in the order in which you want them to show up.

I tried it out and oddly enough, the mouse I most recently plugged in becomes mouse 1, and the other mice get pushed out to mouse 2..n.

[jerryjanis]

First, the selectable mouse axis, everything defaults to 1x.  EVERYTHING.  Even if I restart the game.

The settings weren't saved was my point.

Ahh, now I see what you mean.  I always ran Mame from the command line, and the settings get saved.  Apparently they don't when using mameanalogxp.ini.  I'll check it out.  Thanks!

[SirPoonga]

What?  No, I mean in the game menus when you assign an axis to a player.  Has nothing to do with the ini file.  All players are assigned to 1x.  If I change them they aren;t saved for the next time I enter mame.

Or do you mean you always used commandline switches?

[jerryjanis]

Or do you mean you always used commandline switches?

Yeah, I hadn't used mame.ini before, only "mameanalogxp -mouse -multimousexp soccer"

[u_rebelscum]

...All players are assigned to 1x.  If I change them they aren;t saved for the next time I enter mame.

Or do you mean you always used commandline switches?

splitmouseaxes vs switchmiceaxes

splitmouseaxes: (Automatic setting change) If set, MameAnalog+ will override any saved changes, much like resetmouseaxes.  It's designed so to set both player one axes to mouse 1 X axis, both player two axes to mouse 1 Y axis, both player three axes to mouse 2 X axis, ect.

switchmiceaxes: (Manual setting change) If set, allows you to switch player axis to mouse axis mappings in game.  Much like switchablemice, but you switch by the axis (vs switchablemice by the mouse).

Ideally, if the mice are set up perfectly, you could set splitmouseaxes the first time you play the game, analog+ will save this, and then no need to set it again.  
Realistically, the best time to set splitmouseaxes is for 2 spinner games and either singlemouse set (win9x) or multimouse_winxp not set (winXP).  This setup, you know you will have the X & Y axes split between players 1 & 2.

Almost the same with switchmiceaxes:  ideally, you'd only need it set if you haven't set up the game yet.  Once you set up the mice axes for a game, you don't need to change it any more, so you could leave this not set (and also not set reset or split).  If Analog+ is working correctly, it would read the saved mouse settings (and as long as you didn't change the mice), and have the last settings.


However, you're saying all players get mouse 1, X axis when you set splitmouseaxes?  I'll look into this...

[SirPoonga]

OHHHHHHHHHH, my bad.  Everything works correctly.

[SirPoonga]

Not that it matters, but I did do alot of software testing in my past.
Two lines are repeated

Code: [Select]

parsing rampart.ini...N/A
Using DirectInput 7
stick0, axis0: set
stick0, axis1: set
stick0, axis5: set
stick0, axis6: set
Keyboards=1  Mice=4  Joysticks=1 Lightguns=0
trying to parse ctrlr file windows.ini
trying to parse ctrlr file cabinet/default.ini
"cabinet" controller support enabled
Mouse support enabled
Joystick support disabled
Keyboards=1  Mice=4  Joysticks=0 Lightguns=0(0,0)
Hardware stretching supported
Best mode = 800x600x32 @ default Hz
Primary surface created: 800x600x32 (R=00ff0000 G=0000ff00 B=000000ff)
Blit surface created: 354x242x32 (R=00ff0000 G=0000ff00 B=000000ff)
Primary buffer: 44100 Hz, 16 bits, 1 channels
SSE supported
Sound buffer: overflows=25 underflows=0
Average FPS: 57.273895 (351 frames)


[u_rebelscum]

Not that it matters, but I did do alot of software testing in my past.
Two lines are repeated

Which two lines are you talking about?

If you mean the "Keyboards=x  Mice=x  Joysticks=x Lightguns=x" line, the first time is what mame can find, the second time is what will use.

Notice in your quote, the first one lists one joystick, then latter it say joystick disabled, then the second time it lists zero joysticks.  This is pretty much the same with official Mame, except Mame does not list the lightguns the second time, while Analog+ does (I added it because analog+ can use more than one gun).

[SirPoonga]

Hmmm, how odd.  That would be why I didn't notice it in normal mame.  It's kinda confusing unless you know what it means.

What does this mean:

stick0, axis0: set
stick0, axis1: set
stick0, axis5: set
stick0, axis6: set

[KevSteele]

This is great news!

I'm planning on ordering some of the alternate light guns that are available for a review:

http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=54&products_id=1439&

I'll have to give the "dual light gun" thing a try when I get it.

Very, very cool!  

Kevin

[shumph]

lemme see i get this straight win xp will not allow 2 mice to be used ??


what happens if you do??

and how do you correct it?

[jerryjanis]

lemme see i get this straight win xp will not allow 2 mice to be used ??

what happens if you do??

and how do you correct it?

If you were to plug in several mice into a WindowsXP machine, DirectX will merge them all into a single mouse.  DirectX is a set of libraries that most Windows game programmers use to process input (among other things).  Mame uses DirectX to process mice.  DirectX running on Windows 98 will only divide many USB mice into separate devices, so that you can use as many trackballs as necessary to play the trackball games, but this great feature is not available in DirectX for WindowsXP.  If you were to try to play the non-XP version of MameAnalog+ with multiple mice in WindowsXP, there would only be a single available mouse listed, and moving any of the mice would affect that one mouse.

However, there is another set of libraries, called "Raw Input" that gives a programmer the ability to access the mice individually.  Raw Input is only available to Windows XP and later operating systems.  These libraries were used to process mouse input in the Windows XP version of MameAnalog+, so that now multiple mice and lightguns can be used.

[Magnet_Eye]

Great Work Guys!   I'll have to try this out when I get home.  

Too bad the standard ActLab light guns are on back-order until the end of October.  

You can get them on eBay. I see them all the time. Brand new, buy it now for $29.95.

[Howard_Casto]

If you were to plug in several mice into a WindowsXP machine, DirectX rs use to process input (among other things).  Mame uses DirectX to process mice.  DirectX running on Windows 98 will only divide many USB mice into separate devices, so that you can use as many trackballs as necessary to play the trackball games, but this great feature is not available in DirectX for WindowsXP.  

I hate to nitpick, but i hate to see misinformation floating around.  Windows 9x isn't supposed to be able to support multiple mice either.  This "feature" is actually a bug that wasn't fixed until windoze 2000.  As a matter of fact until usb became popular you had to use this exploit by having different types of mice.  (A serial and a ps2. )  I only bring this up because raw input on 9x systems is sketchy at best.  It works but barely and there is a limit to how many mice you can read seperately.  Again not an exact science so your mileage will vary.

Also the directX libraries have absolutely nothing to do with the issue.  It's a core change, which obviously you guys got around.   DirectX is the same regardless of the version of windows.  

I just thought I would mention it.  

[u_rebelscum]

If you were to plug in several mice into a WindowsXP machine, DirectX rs use to process input (among other things).  Mame uses DirectX to process mice.  DirectX running on Windows 98 will only divide many USB mice into separate devices, so that you can use as many trackballs as necessary to play the trackball games, but this great feature is not available in DirectX for WindowsXP.  

I hate to nitpick, but i hate to see misinformation floating around.  Windows 9x isn't supposed to be able to support multiple mice either.  This "feature" is actually a bug that wasn't fixed until windoze 2000.  As a matter of fact until usb became popular you had to use this exploit by having different types of mice.  (A serial and a ps2. )  I only bring this up because raw input on 9x systems is sketchy at best.  It works but barely and there is a limit to how many mice you can read seperately.  Again not an exact science so your mileage will vary.

Also the directX libraries have absolutely nothing to do with the issue.  It's a core change, which obviously you guys got around.   DirectX is the same regardless of the version of windows.  

I just thought I would mention it.  

I have to agree with jerryjanis on this one Howard.  If you look at the directX 8.0 documention, it states that an added feature of directX was the addition of being able to see the mice individually.  This feature wasn't part of directX until 7.0; prior versions to that even win9x wouldn't let any app see the mice individually.


The reason Jake mentions directX is that the MS doc statement:

"Because DirectInput works directly with the mouse driver, it bypasses the subsystem of Windows that interprets mouse data ..."

is true for mice in win98 (starting with dX 7.0), but not true in winXP.  Yes, this is a OS core issue, but it directly effects what the directInput library can and can't do.  In win9x, directX can see multiple mice, in winXP it can't.  Period.  
Jake had to rewrite mame's whole mouse input read part so it used a new, winXP-only section of win32 api called RawInput, instead of directX.


Also, I think you might be confusing the dual mouse in dos mame with the directx multiple mouse in win98, since you mentioned needing serial & ps/2 mice.  Different OS families let mame dual/multiple mice through different ways:

DOS: driver dependent, only two mice: serial + serial, or serial + ps/2.

win9x: only through directX directInput, as many mice as the app cares to look for; all must be HID compliant USB mice.  Serial and PS/2 mice do not work.

winXP: only through win32 api RawInput, as many mice as the app cares to look for; any type of mouse.

[TheGatesofBill]

u_rebel, I'm trying to upgrade from 0.72.1 to 0.74.1 in No Name (I've already changed the MAME core), any chance you have any suggestions as to how to do this? (Or do I need to just go and compare the diffs line by line?)

[sac01]

Carefull on those Ebay ActLabs guns... Alot of those are the old gameport versions, not the usb ones.  I've seen alot of those on Ebay recently, I think someone bought a whse of Old Stock.

[hyiu]

ok.... let me try to understand....

win XP ... with the new modified code.... analog+...
can recognize multiple mice input !!! (or raw input !!!..)

First off !!!.... THX... BIG THANKS !!.... to your hard work...
very much appreciated....

and from what I read.... it should work with 2 act-labs USB guns ??.....

great news !!!......

ok... now... I'll need room in my cab to store 2 GUNS !!!!!!....

yeah !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

[u_rebelscum]

u_rebel, I'm trying to upgrade from 0.72.1 to 0.74.1 in No Name (I've already changed the MAME core), any chance you have any suggestions as to how to do this? (Or do I need to just go and compare the diffs line by line?)

I knew I saw this Q earlier when I read it in your other post, but I couldn't find the original when I was looking for it.  Now that I answered over on your NoNameMame thread, I find the original time you asked.  

Goes to show, if I don't answer at first, ask again.   (Not that I have a good answer...)