Anyone convert their MAME Cabinet to JAMMA?

[DaveMMR]

Don't know why but I'm a little burnt out on having to go through Windows (or any other OS) to get to my machine running. Yeah, I rigged a button, have a Smartstrip, hid Windows and minimized boot time, but for some reason I feel like I want my machine be more "authentic" by just being able to flip a switch and have a game (or menu) running and then just flip it right off, without the "shutdown".

On top of that, it seems "simpler". Instead of having 600 games (or whatever), of which maybe five get played at any one time, that all have various button-lighting profiles and control-schemes, it'd be nice to not have to worry about those stupid little things.

So anyone throw a Jamma harness in their cab (or think about it)? Any thoughts, opinions, warnings, advice on going that route?

(Also, I do still like MAME and will probably end up keeping a PC hooked up with a Jpac in the cabinet for those times I want an "unlimited" selection.) 

[paigeoliver]

Mame and Jamma in the same cabinet has never been worth it to me. You end up futzing around with it a lot and breaking stuff. Easier to just have 2 machines.

You can also go DOS based and not have to worry about the shutdown.

[yotsuya]

DaveMMR-

I'm considering building a cocktail and wiring it for JAMMA, then getting PCBs for it as well as a XX to Jamma adapter (say, Ms. Pac-Man or Galaga). I already have a MAME vertical and MAME horizontal, so I think a this would work best on a cocktail- I'd try to keep it more "real-world" authentic.

[opt2not]

I just converted my cocktail cabinet to Jamma for the same reasons you wrote. I found I started getting annoyed of configuring and loading Windows and UI's, soft 15khz, hacking a cabinet together with Mame interfaces, having some games not perfectly emulated, dealing with power/smart strip stuff...etc. 
Mame is nice, but there is something about real hardware that feels better to me, and in some cases plays better. I find I use Mame as a sampling tool, if I wanted to try out a game I've never heard of before, while original hardware is for games I want to concentrate on and of course own outright.

Converting to Jamma just made sense to me. You still retain the ability to add a Mame device later (via Jpac), but with the conveniences of wiring standardization to support real boards.
I used Bob Robert's guide, it's a great how-to resource:
http://www.therealbobroberts.net/jh.html  (follow this to a "t" and you'll be fine).

Some words of advice:
- Get a good quality Jamma harness. This goes with a Switching Power supply. My rule of thumb is to avoid the ones made in china. Go for the ones built in the USA or Japan (mainly replacement harnesses for candy cabinets). Some of the chinese made harnesses are built with too thin wire for the power connections, and in some cases the connections are properly secured to the connector.

- Switching to Jamma means you will be giving up on amplified as well as stereo sound. But I followed Bob Robert's "cheap amp" tutorial, and was able to get a mono sound from the jamma connector, outputted to both channels and amplified. The guide requires a bit of soldering know-how, but it really isn't that difficult.

- Supporting more than 3 buttons will require a kick harness. For my cocktail I didn't need to worry about kick buttons since it's I'm just using the standard jamma 2 button setup. But if you need to run Capcom boards like Street Fighter or the beat-em-ups like D&D, you'll need to get yourself a Kick harness. (either CPS1/2, or CPS3)

- Buy molex connectors for modularity. This makes it easy to take components out, as well as organize connections throughout your cabinet.

- Cable ties are your friend.

[CheffoJeffo]

I ONLY put MAME boxes wired for JAMMA in my cabs.

It is so much easier to deal with if I want to make a change or use my MultiJAMMA. Or, if say, I want to change my vertical MAME to an xx-in-1, I spend 20 seconds and all is done.

The JPac is Cheffo's best friend for MAME boxes.

[amendonz]

Good call with going original hardware, I had a bazillion in 1 cab, did nothing for me. I cherish my pcbs though. Plus when you change pcb's you can pretend to be an arcade operator (oh to dream)

[opt2not]

Plus when you change pcb's you can pretend to be an arcade operator (oh to dream)

Haha, I do this! Especially on my New Astro City.  I time myself to see how fast I can change the board, as well as the control panel (since I have 2 for my NAC - 1 for fighters, 1 for shooters).

[DaveMMR]

Thanks for the advice. I'm debating going out and finding a cheap JAMMA cab or reworking my current cab. The latter may be a bit more involved because I wanted to actually "shrink" it down a bit (closer to the size of the actual Centipede) but it already has 8 Ohm speakers, 25" arcade monitor, coin door, etc.

opt2not, thanks for the links - didn't see those the first time around and it all looks relatively simple

paigeoliver, that was my concern too. But if it turns out to be an issue, I'd probably keep MAME strictly for bartops and keep the cabinet running only a handful of games. 

Cheffo, you mentioned the MultiJamma. Is it feasible to have a PC with JPac connected to a slot in a MultiJamma rig and then a regular board in the second slot(s)?   

[Jack Burton]

I feel like I'm pretty burnt out on emulation in general. 

If I ever get around to setting up another cab it's going to be based on consoles.  With those there is not nearly as much configuration involved, no input delay, and you have a large amount of "officialness" to the ports.

[Well Fed Games]

Does durability/longevity of the older hardware factor in to your decisions? I'm at a point where I successfully (IMHO) made a MAME cab with a PC and TV, and am now looking to build/buy a cab for a functioning JAMMA board and arcade monitor... but I find myself anxious about the old (possibly irreplaceable) tech failing (even though I know a PC has more moving parts and is probably more likely to fail). How have you resolved this in your minds, or is it just part of the hobby?

[CheffoJeffo]

Cheffo, you mentioned the MultiJamma. Is it feasible to have a PC with JPac connected to a slot in a MultiJamma rig and then a regular board in the second slot(s)?   

I have done it.

[romshark]

My cabinet was designed for MAME, Jamma, and a Sega Naomi. I do tend to use MAME more (even for the games I do have the PCB for), due to having a pause button (I'm always getting called away by someone, or have to use the restroom, or the phone, need a drink, ect.)

[opt2not]

Does durability/longevity of the older hardware factor in to your decisions? I'm at a point where I successfully (IMHO) made a MAME cab with a PC and TV, and am now looking to build/buy a cab for a functioning JAMMA board and arcade monitor... but I find myself anxious about the old (possibly irreplaceable) tech failing (even though I know a PC has more moving parts and is probably more likely to fail). How have you resolved this in your minds, or is it just part of the hobby?

I'm not too clear on what you mean by "older tech". The Jamma standard is just a bundle of of wires, a 56-pin connector, and a switching power supply. The PS is replaceable, since there a plenty of places you can get new ones these days.

The only "old tech" you really have to worry about is the Monitor and the actual game board itself.
And people have eliminated the monitor by wiring up an LCD monitor to Jamma instead, via a CGA/EGA/YUV to VGA Converter which up-converts the board's 15khz video signal to a 31khz one that an LCD monitor can display.
If you take care of your PCB's, store them properly, and make sure they're getting the proper juice from the Power Supply, they should last for a very long time (probably outliving your PC hardware).

[Well Fed Games]

Does durability/longevity of the older hardware factor in to your decisions? I'm at a point where I successfully (IMHO) made a MAME cab with a PC and TV, and am now looking to build/buy a cab for a functioning JAMMA board and arcade monitor... but I find myself anxious about the old (possibly irreplaceable) tech failing (even though I know a PC has more moving parts and is probably more likely to fail). How have you resolved this in your minds, or is it just part of the hobby?

I'm not too clear on what you mean by "older tech". The Jamma standard is just a bundle of of wires, a 56-pin connector, and a switching power supply. The PS is replaceable, since there a plenty of places you can get new ones these days.

The only "old tech" you really have to worry about is the Monitor and the actual game board itself.
And people have eliminated the monitor by wiring up an LCD monitor to Jamma instead, via a CGA/EGA/YUV to VGA Converter which up-converts the board's 15khz video signal to a 31khz one that an LCD monitor can display.
If you take care of your PCB's, store them properly, and make sure they're getting the proper juice from the Power Supply, they should last for a very long time (probably outliving your PC hardware).

Yeah, I guess I mean the PCB. I just see a bunch of components that I don't understand- but you're right, if I take care of it, I don't know why it would stop working. If it survived 10-15 years on location somewhere I can't imagine it would fail with home use.

[BobA]

PCBs can always fail even with very little or no use.  Any electrolytic caps of the board can dry out over time and cause your board to malfunction.

[paigeoliver]

Caps can dry out, EPROM data can become corrupted, batteries (sometimes inside or underneath chips even) can spit acid all over the board.

Frequent handling of boards is also problematic. There is the potential for physical damage each time you handle a board. You can also wear down the traces by frequently connnecting and disconnecting the wiring harness. Wiring connectors other than edge connectors tend to be fragile and easily damaged, etc.

Basically, arcade boards aren't Nintendo cartridges, even if it seems like they are.

PCBs can always fail even with very little or no use.  Any electrolytic caps of the board can dry out over time and cause your board to malfunction.

[amendonz]

Yeah but most boards aren't that expensive to replace, I think the whole easy to break thing is overstated. Many boards last for AGES And many are repairable. (although sometimes not cost effective) 

[Well Fed Games]

A MAME/Jamma switching cabinet sounds good, though, for SHMUPS that are and are not emulated... (ideas are blossoming in my brain).

[DaveMMR]

Yeah but most boards aren't that expensive to replace, I think the whole easy to break thing is overstated. Many boards last for AGES And many are repairable. (although sometimes not cost effective) 

What he said. I'm not terribly concerned about that eventuality that one of my boards may possibly die sometime in the future. That's what MAME is for, right? Besides, I'm used to collecting old items that have a limited lifespan - my vinyl records die a little each time they get played (although I am guilty of cheaping-out with stylus).

[CheffoJeffo]

The question I have for someone who claims to know about boards is ... how many do you own and when do they date from ?

[amendonz]

All mine are from the nineties, mostly cps2. I'm no expert. I've only got 6 boards and a couple neo carts. Only problem i've had is with one cps2 board which arrived dodgy. Everything else hums along fine.

[opt2not]

The question I have for someone who claims to know about boards is ... how many do you own and when do they date from ?

I don't claim to know all there is about boards, but I have a small collection that I'm pretty proud of:

- Gyruss 1983: I have owned this board for 3 years now, no problems. Previous owner said it was in perfect condition while he owned it, which was for several years.
- Pacman 1980: No problems, but I don't know what the previous owner had to do with it.
- Arkanoid 1986: Had this for a few years as well. Haven't booted it up for a while, 'cause I no longer have my spinners.
- Robotron 1982: (in my dedicated):  Had some RAM failures, and some blown fuses and burnt connectors. Replaced rams with updated ones, installed new battery connector. works great.
- Black Tiger 1987: Bought this board with Sprite Rom issues  Replaced the roms with newly burnt ones, fixed. Works great.
- Raiden II 1993: Got this in a trade. Works perfect, but doesn't save hi-scores (like most Raiden boards these days -- Apparently there was some unfinished encryption they were planning, but didn't completely go all the way with)
- Golden Axe II Revenge of Death Adder 1992: Not a single problem. Previous owner pulled this out of a cabinet, didn't have to do anything with it.
- Street Fighter III: Third Strike  1999 : New suicide battery installed, works amazing.
- Neo Geo 1 slot 1990's?:  Works great.
- Strikers 1945 Plus MVS: Cleaned up edge connector and it works great.
- Puzzle Bobble 2 MVS:   Cleaned up edge connector and it works great.
- Blazing Star MVS:   Cleaned up edge connector and it works great.
- Metal Slug X MVS:  Cleaned up edge connector and it works great.

I keep these all stored upright (to avoid board sagging), in pink (anti-static) bubble wrap in boxes.  The issues I have had with some of these boards were somewhat easy fixes that I was able to find components for, without problems.  Now if you're talking about early, early Atari stuff, especially vector boards....that's a different story, since some of those components are harder to come by or expensive. For example the DAC's for vector generation.

But there is something special about running an original board in your cabinet. Something about it feels more, real to me. 

[paigeoliver]

Early stuff is so much flakier, particularly pre 1980 stuff. I used to have a bit of focus on black and white games when I was really into collecting and it seemed like they ALL had board problems.

[Well Fed Games]

Damn, Opt, that is a kick ass collection. A lot of my favs in there. 

[CheffoJeffo]

The question I have for someone who claims to know about boards is ... how many do you own and when do they date from ?

I don't claim to know all there is about boards, but I have a small collection that I'm pretty proud of:

- Gyruss 1983: I have owned this board for 3 years now, no problems. Previous owner said it was in perfect condition while he owned it, which was for several years.
- Pacman 1980: No problems, but I don't know what the previous owner had to do with it.
- Arkanoid 1986: Had this for a few years as well. Haven't booted it up for a while, 'cause I no longer have my spinners.
- Robotron 1982: (in my dedicated):  Had some RAM failures, and some blown fuses and burnt connectors. Replaced rams with updated ones, installed new battery connector. works great.
- Black Tiger 1987: Bought this board with Sprite Rom issues  Replaced the roms with newly burnt ones, fixed. Works great.
- Raiden II 1993: Got this in a trade. Works perfect, but doesn't save hi-scores (like most Raiden boards these days -- Apparently there was some unfinished encryption they were planning, but didn't completely go all the way with)
- Golden Axe II Revenge of Death Adder 1992: Not a single problem. Previous owner pulled this out of a cabinet, didn't have to do anything with it.
- Street Fighter III: Third Strike  1999 : New suicide battery installed, works amazing.
- Neo Geo 1 slot 1990's?:  Works great.
- Strikers 1945 Plus MVS: Cleaned up edge connector and it works great.
- Puzzle Bobble 2 MVS:   Cleaned up edge connector and it works great.
- Blazing Star MVS:   Cleaned up edge connector and it works great.
- Metal Slug X MVS:  Cleaned up edge connector and it works great.

I keep these all stored upright (to avoid board sagging), in pink (anti-static) bubble wrap in boxes.  The issues I have had with some of these boards were somewhat easy fixes that I was able to find components for, without problems.  Now if you're talking about early, early Atari stuff, especially vector boards....that's a different story, since some of those components are harder to come by or expensive. For example the DAC's for vector generation.

But there is something special about running an original board in your cabinet. Something about it feels more, real to me. 

I was pretty much yanking your chain on that (was a tad obnoxious, even for me). I do disagree with your assessment of the lasting forever part, but your storage regime seems to be sound.

[opt2not]

Damn, Opt, that is a kick ass collection. A lot of my favs in there. 

Thanks! It's a very modest collection, but it'll grow. 

I was pretty much yanking your chain on that (was a tad obnoxious, even for me). I do disagree with your assessment of the lasting forever part, but your storage regime seems to be sound.

Hehe, gotcha. I guess I jumped the gun to show off my boards.

When say "last forever", I'm not naive to think they'll be entirely without problems. I have no doubts that I'll have to maintain these boards in the future. But from what I can see, most, if not all of the components on my current boards CAN be replaced with new ones. Caps, eproms, transistors, resistors, RAMS, etc...they're all standard electronics that still are in manufacturing today. 

The key is like you say, a proper storage regime, as well as being careful while physically handling them. I generally don't swap out my boards too often, I mainly concentrate on one game at a time, but edge connector wear is a concern as well with the constant connecting/disconnecting.

[DaveMMR]

I'm looking at all the information on the web, including the links you gave me opt. I'm beginning to wonder if I should look around for a JAMMA cabinet. I figure with all the rewiring of my existing cab (including buying the harness, switching power supply, etc.), it would be cheaper just to find a cabinet, even gutted. At least it's still an option if I come up dry. 

And yeah, I've been pretty much reading up on this (including lurking around KLOV) and the more I do, the more I want to "graduate" from MAME.  Opt, hopefully I'll get a collection as awesome as yours.  You have a couple of my favorites in your collection (Gyruss, Robotron and Blazing Star). 

Any other recommended reading besides "therealbobroberts.net" and "jammaboards.com"? 

[yotsuya]

I'm looking at all the information on the web, including the links you gave me opt. I'm beginning to wonder if I should look around for a JAMMA cabinet. I figure with all the rewiring of my existing cab (including buying the harness, switching power supply, etc.), it would be cheaper just to find a cabinet, even gutted. At least it's still an option if I come up dry. 

And yeah, I've been pretty much reading up on this (including lurking around KLOV) and the more I do, the more I want to "graduate" from MAME.  Opt, hopefully I'll get a collection as awesome as yours.  You have a couple of my favorites in your collection (Gyruss, Robotron and Blazing Star). 

Any other recommended reading besides "therealbobroberts.net" and "jammaboards.com"? 

Same here. My wife has told me if I get her a new house, I can do all the collecting I want. I'm ready to graduate from MAME as well.

[HaRuMaN]

- Black Tiger 1987: Bought this board with Sprite Rom issues  Replaced the roms with newly burnt ones, fixed. Works great.

I can has?

[MameMaster!]

I just put a SuperGun into my mame cab and can switch up and back. I have a Dreamcast in there too.

It's a mess inside (it used to be nice and neat); but within a few minutes I can switch between all 3.

Currently I'm on a mame kick, just off of a DC kick (preceeded by a SuperGun kick).