Joy Stick Length, Mounting Depth, Cut Out Diameter, etc.

[truepusk]

I have U360s and I am working on putting together my final MAME design.  For my prototypes I just top mounted the U360s.  I don't know that that is considered optimal.

I'm not sure what the best design is in terms of:

• Joy Stick Height/Mounting Depth
• "Cut Out" Diameter (not sure if this is the correct term, but what size of hole you leave in the wood to restrict joystick movement)
• Ball versus oblong joystick cap (not sure what the correct term for the later is)
• Height of Glass above the joystick, i.e. clearance (I'm doing it cocktail table style)

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• Restrictor Plates (I don't have restrictor plates currently - I suppose that depends heavily on the type of games you want to play)

</edit>


So here is what I'm wondering...  are there any good consensus guidelines for the above or is it all about personal preference?  Is this something that I have to mock up and try out myself?  I'd be open to any good threads or search terms discussing this subject in detail.  As an aside, I found a few threads that touch on this subject and I will continue to read through them while looking for additional input.

[Afterburner]

A mockup made from cardboard and dowels goes a looooooong way on control placement and layout.

I have my joysticks mounted beneath the panel.  I routed out the MDF of the CP to allow a good fit for the joysticks.  Then I bored a hole for the stick to go through.  In my case I have Ikari Warrior style rotary 8-way sticks and I wasn't able to take the top off the stick.  So the hole size in the CP had to be large enough to pass the stick top through.  I think it was a 1" diameter hole.

I used countersunk machine screws to mount the sticks with nuts underneath.  The artwork covers the screws and the clear acrylic sheet went over the artwork.  The buttons on top of the acrylic are the only thing that hold it in place.

Restrictor plates are nice, but I don't have them.  I'm in the process of adding a super cheap (i.e. I took it out of a broken kids toy) dedicated 4-way to the upper deck of my CP.  Probably less of an option for a cocktail style cab.

As for clearance to the glass....again, a mockup is an invaluable tool there.

[truepusk]

I'm considering the octagonal  restrictor plates after reading this thread:

 http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=110258.0

[truepusk]

I'll have to search around for some other threads about control mock ups to understand how people are doing them.  For my "prototype" I used wood for everything.  I'm not sure how you would use cardboard and dowels.

[Paul Olson]

I used hardboard for my mockups. It is stronger than cardboard, but still really quick to drill and cut through. It is sold with the 24" x 48" plywood and MDF at Home Depot. It is only 1/8" thick, so really easy to cut.

[emphatic]

http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/mounting_layering.html

[truepusk]

http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/mounting_layering.html

That's a cool resource.  It doesn't specifically mention my U360s, but I'm guessing they are analogous or close to one of the other three mentioned...  anyone know which?

Sanwa
Seimitsu
Happ/IL

[truepusk]

For your reference, here is what I've done for a mock-up thus far...




It's a lot of work to tweak things for testing, so I'll have to think about what I might want to do which could be easily adjusted quickly for testing.  I'm anxious to get started on the final design and I'm getting close to having it planned out, but I guess a little more analysis paralysis won't kill me.

[emphatic]

The shaft height of your mockups look good. u360's are more a MAME specific joystick, that's why they don't show up in the Slagcoin page I guess. 

[MajorHavoc]

The shaft height of your mockups look good. u360's are more a MAME specific joystick, that's why they don't show up in the Slagcoin page I guess. 

U360's are modified Sanwa JLW Joysticks so just follow the Slagcoin recommendations for that series stick.  I got some of them for my player 2, 3 and 4 positions on my on again off again Frankenpanel.  They look nice and since they are the parent of the U360, they have all the same dimensions.  This makes mounting somewhat easier in that only one set of dimensions is needed.   

[truepusk]

The shaft height of your mockups look good. u360's are more a MAME specific joystick, that's why they don't show up in the Slagcoin page I guess. 

U360's are modified Sanwa JLW Joysticks so just follow the Slagcoin recommendations for that series stick.  I got some of them for my player 2, 3 and 4 positions on my on again off again Frankenpanel.  They look nice and since they are the parent of the U360, they have all the same dimensions.  This makes mounting somewhat easier in that only one set of dimensions is needed.   

Awesome!!!  Just the info I was looking for.

[truepusk]

This is what I'm tentatively thinking; I would enjoy any feedback!

• I'm going to replace the oval tops on my sticks with the ball tops instead.  The ball tops are half an inch shorter, so this will allow the glass above the control stick to be lower and still have hand clearance.  Any strong opinions on balls versus oval tops?  I would think the ovals might be nicer for fighting games (SF2, MK for example) but hopefully it doesn't make too much of a difference.
• I'm going to get octagonal restrictor plates.  It's expensive, but I think it would make playing some of these games, in particular the fighters, easier.  Again, I wouldn't mind getting some feedback on this.
• I plan on just following the slagcoin guidelines (23mm-24mm between the bottom of the ball top and the top of the control panel AND 24mm diameter circle) rather than mocking up several combinations of joystick depth.  I guess the one thing I'll have to be aware of is making sure that the hole diameter is big enough to allow the joystick to hit all the corners of the restrictor plate.

[truepusk]

I found a great thread that goes into great detail on the pros and cons of 360s w/ restrictor plates:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=111122.0

So restrictor plates are definitely recommended, as often times are the stiffer springs.  Also, I guess it's generally round for old school and octagon for newer school.

So these leaves me with some additional questions:

• For fighters (SF2, MK, maybe even others like MvC, etc...) I would assume that they would NOT be considered classic and that the octagon plates would be best.  Is this correct?  Also, would stiffer springs be considered best for these?
• Someone in that thread I linked to recommended http://www.lizardlick.com/.  The price of springs, balls, restrictor plates, etc., from ultimarc gets to be A LOT.  Would I be okay getting restrictor plates, springs, and balls listed as for Sanwa for use with my 360s form Lizard Lick or any other cheaper sites?

[truepusk]

Bump.  I'm wondering about the following:

So these leaves me with some additional questions:

• For fighters (SF2, MK, maybe even others like MvC, etc...) I would assume that they would NOT be considered classic and that the octagon plates would be best.  Is this correct?  Also, would stiffer springs be considered best for these?
• Someone in that thread I linked to recommended http://www.lizardlick.com/.  The price of springs, balls, restrictor plates, etc., from ultimarc gets to be A LOT.  Would I be okay getting restrictor plates, springs, and balls listed as for Sanwa for use with my 360s form Lizard Lick or any other cheaper sites?
• round versus oval tops for the controllers?  any strong opinions?

[truepusk]

It looks like Lizard Lick is no good, but Paradise Arcade is recommended.  The U360s fit 6mm threaded tops.  And I'm going to go out on a limb and assume the Sanwa restrictor plates will work.

[truepusk]

Ordering the Sanwa restrictor plates for the U360s may have been a mistake.  It looks like the Ultramarc ones may come with a special replacement post (not sure - it's tough to tell).  I might still be able to find a way to make these work; I'll have to look into it.