Goodbye Cruel World! =(

[dextercf]

 
This just happened to my Space Invaders Pt.2
Anyone want to predict if it's fixable, and what are the parts needed?

[Nephasth]

Fixable? Yes.
Parts needed? The ones you burned up.
Wasn't this a free board anyway? Good practice.

[Well Fed Games]

Sorry to hear it. The head-to-head elements of that game are pretty cool, hope you can fix it!

[dextercf]

Fixable? Yes.
Parts needed? The ones you burned up.
Wasn't this a free board anyway? Good practice.

Yeah it was a freebie, that's why I can laugh and write this down in the "Oh well, I tried" book of mine.
Even tho I feel somewhat ashamed of burning such a old game.. Ah well, I guess I'll look up the parts and try again when they arrive..

Sorry to hear it. The head-to-head elements of that game are pretty cool, hope you can fix it!

Yeah? I did want to put it in a "head-to-head" cocktail I'm in the middle of restoring..

[dextercf]

Any clues to what that little sucker was?

It's kinda blue/metallic of color (atleast now) and has "16V" written on it, something might have gone missing also.
And those little green dudes, any name for those and or tips to where to grab some?

[BobA]

The green ones are probably bypass caps.   You can probably find more on your board that have not gone up in flames.  The blue one is an electrolic cap of some sort due to the markings on the board.  Maybe a tantalum.  If you want the proper values you will need a circuit diagram or maintenance manual.

[compute]

Fortunately, the manual is hosted at KLOV:

http://www.arcade-museum.com/manuals-videogames/S/SpaceInv2Ckt.pdf

There is a layout of the board with all of the parts and their values represented.

[Gray_Area]

Fortunately, the manual is hosted at KLOV:

http://www.arcade-museum.com/manuals-videogames/S/SpaceInv2Ckt.pdf

There is a layout of the board with all of the parts and their values represented.

Research to the rescue......

[dextercf]

That would have helped alot, if it was for the 3-layer Taito board.. 
Thanks anyway!

Btw, the green ones have this written on them:
04k50
NIS D

[boardjunkie]

Thats a tantalum cap. Those are the only ones that violently explode when they fail. You can use a regular electrolytic in place of it.....won't hurt anything. Just make sure you install it with correct polarity (ie,match the positive lead to the pos marking on the board).

[boardjunkie]

BTW, its a 1uF 35v cap....

[dextercf]

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=cap+1uf+35v&_sacat=0&_odkw=tantalum+cap+1uf+35v&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313

??

[Blanka]

Phew!
It is just about dead caps.
Thought I was going to run into some suicide anouncement here.

[boardjunkie]

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=cap+1uf+35v&_sacat=0&_odkw=tantalum+cap+1uf+35v&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313

??

Nope. Those are surface mount and the one is axial. Just use a normal radial lead electrolytic....

[dextercf]

And going up on the voltages is ok, right? The only ones I find is 50V (or 30V, but thats not gonna go well. amirite?)
Also, I get confused to how these two parts are different. And you now are telling me they are the same stuff?

[Peja]

And going up on the voltages is ok, right? The only ones I find is 50V (or 30V, but thats not gonna go well. amirite?)
Also, I get confused to how these two parts are different. And you now are telling me they are the same stuff?

I am sure I am no where near the skill level of boardjunkie but when fixing multiple motherboards at work here, I almost always go up in the voltages but leave the microfarads (uf) rating the same.  Not sure if it is true or not, but it seems like higher voltage ratings will make them last a bit longer, unless there is something completely different causing them to pop.  You should be just fine with 50v. 

Like he said, make sure you know which side is positive and negative on those radials, although it is fun watching those things blow right when you fire the board back up.......(the longer wire lead is usually the positive side while the stripe down the other side usually has the "-" sign)   Although I don't mess with tantalum caps ever, the striped side may be positive on those.  But on the electrolytic caps, the striped side is usually the negative.

You may just want to wait for boardjunkie to tell you otherwise......I would hate to mess up your board even more.  

Peja

[dextercf]

And in other news... now this happened to my Toki PCB.
I'm guessing my PSU isn't that good, even though the readings off my multimeter is withing reasonable values..

Are there hope for this guy? Seems to be some kinda eprom of sorts, would this be something available that any of you know of?

[dextercf]

And going up on the voltages is ok, right? The only ones I find is 50V (or 30V, but thats not gonna go well. amirite?)
Also, I get confused to how these two parts are different. And you now are telling me they are the same stuff?

I am sure I am no where near the skill level of boardjunkie but when fixing multiple motherboards at work here, I almost always go up in the voltages but leave the microfarads (uf) rating the same.  Not sure if it is true or not, but it seems like higher voltage ratings will make them last a bit longer, unless there is something completely different causing them to pop.  You should be just fine with 50v. 

Like he said, make sure you know which side is positive and negative on those radials, although it is fun watching those things blow right when you fire the board back up.......(the longer wire lead is usually the positive side while the stripe down the other side usually has the "-" sign)   Although I don't mess with tantalum caps ever, the striped side may be positive on those.  But on the electrolytic caps, the striped side is usually the negative.

You may just want to wait for boardjunkie to tell you otherwise......I would hate to mess up your board even more.  

Peja

This is what I have read also, but yeah.. I'll just wait to get this confirmed.
Also with this next board "blowing up", I'm a bit out of my mojo at the moment. Kinda just want to leave it be for some days. Gaarrrrr!

[boardjunkie]

You can go up in voltage when replacing a capacitor. The voltage rating is the max in can take. So if you put a 50v cap in a circuit where it only sees a few volts, thats fine. Best to stick with the same value (uF rating) unless you know what yer doin' as far as what the part does in the circuit and if its ok to change the value.

The blown up part in the last photo is the audio amp for that board. I think its an "LA4460", but I'd verify that before ordering a replacement. When replacing those (or any other multi leaded IC), its usually easier to clip the leads off one at a time and then clear the holes by removing whats left of the lead then clearing solder with wick or a solder sucker.

[dextercf]

This is why I love this forum, people help out!
Where can i Get me some of These parts?

Still is a bit confused with the first incident, the component that blew up was blue and has "16V" still visible.
I guess the 1uF ones talked about earlier in the post Are replayements for the bigger Green components that was too close the One componenet that blew up..

[dextercf]

The blown up part in the last photo is the audio amp for that board. I think its an "LA4460", but I'd verify that before ordering a replacement.

Norwegian webstore: https://www.elfaelektronikk.no/elfa3~no_no/elfa/init.do?item=73-864-08&toc=0
datasheet: https://www1.elfa.se/data1/wwwroot/assets/datasheets/ve642335.pdf

This might be it?
I see the chip is somewhat different when it comes to pins, but there should be a small task to construct some sort of attatchment method for this..

When searching for "9B1" (the last markings on the IC) I get these results on my local dealers webstore;
https://www.elfaelektronikk.no/elfa3~no_no/elfa/init.do?query=9b1

[matsadona]

Just to clear things out here - is it the same PSU that toasted both pcb's?
I would definitely replace that one also, before connecting any other or repaired pcb. Or do you have 100% control of how your cabinet is wired?
Old capacitors could die by age (they dry out eventually), but the amplifier IC death is more concerning...

[boardjunkie]

The blown up part in the last photo is the audio amp for that board. I think its an "LA4460", but I'd verify that before ordering a replacement.

Norwegian webstore: https://www.elfaelektronikk.no/elfa3~no_no/elfa/init.do?item=73-864-08&toc=0
datasheet: https://www1.elfa.se/data1/wwwroot/assets/datasheets/ve642335.pdf

This might be it?
I see the chip is somewhat different when it comes to pins, but there should be a small task to construct some sort of attatchment method for this..

When searching for "9B1" (the last markings on the IC) I get these results on my local dealers webstore;
https://www.elfaelektronikk.no/elfa3~no_no/elfa/init.do?query=9b1

No...thats a MAX4460. Totally different thing. You need this:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=la4460&_sacat=See-All-Categories

[Malenko]

Phew!
It is just about dead caps.
Thought I was going to run into some suicide anouncement here.

I thought it was a Pink Floyd thread 

[dextercf]

Phew!
It is just about dead caps.
Thought I was going to run into some suicide anouncement here.

I thought it was a Pink Floyd thread 

Haha!
Guess i better work on naming the threads better in the future..

[dextercf]

No...thats a MAX4460. Totally different thing. You need this:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=la4460&_sacat=See-All-Categories

Ordered! Thanks alot!
If this does the trick, i need your adress to send you a Norwegian candy treat!

Just to clear things out here - is it the same PSU that toasted both pcb's?
I would definitely replace that one also, before connecting any other or repaired pcb. Or do you have 100% control of how your cabinet is wired?
Old capacitors could die by age (they dry out eventually), but the amplifier IC death is more concerning...

Yeah, it's the same PSU. A new one is allready ordered. (Can a computer PSU take its place, in theori?)
I have 3 "arcade PSU" at the moment, everyone is second hand goods and I no longer trust them.
The spaghetti (harness and such) should be OK, as I desoldered a brand new one and soldered on only the needed pins with a bit thicker guage wires.
The cab it self is allso stripped apart, metal frame is scraped/buffed and painted. The switches and fuse-holders (and fuses) replaced. Pretty sure it's no screw ups, but I'm doing a walktrough on the whole deal, I don't wanna experience this in a while.

I came to think about the amp.IC. The seller told me the game had a "humm" to it, but worked perfectly. This might be a early sign of weakness of this IC, no?

[boardjunkie]

The hum was prob'ly from a failing pwr supply. The amp chip won't create hum on its own....unless its *very* close to catastrophic failure....which may have been the case. We'll never know....

[dextercf]

The hum was prob'ly from a failing pwr supply. The amp chip won't create hum on its own....unless its *very* close to catastrophic failure....which may have been the case. We'll never know....

As you said, we will never know..


Anyway, tiny components are arriving each day now.
I ordered from 3 suppliers, only the national supplier has delievered yet (Bunch of 1uf 50V caps).
A new powersupply and some other caps should be her next week, and hopefully the LA4466 not to long after.

There is only one thing I have not found yet. Think I even forgot about it, actually.
The main "bad guy" which actually blew up on the Toki board.
In this picture here: CLICK ME
The one that is totaly toasted, and on its own row. It's different than any other component on the board.
It's blue of color, and the only thing visible now is the text 16V. There is something written on the line over "16V", might be 422 or x22 or something. Pretty sure its 22 at the end.
I'm guessing it's one similar to the far right on this picture;


But how would I go about finding the correct value for this guy?

[dextercf]

For the ones who is able to decypher such schematics;
http://www.brentradio.com/images/Other/Docs/SpaceInvaders/TaitoSI_P1P2_Schematics.pdf
Could it be the one marked C2 on page 3, which is refered to as SSG16-22F?

This is the board in full view;
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=103207.0;attach=176170;image

[BobA]

It is definately C2 next to the 8080 processor.

[dextercf]

Any chance you can decrypt for me what values the capicitor has?

[BobA]

This is only a guess compared to the other tant caps 35 or 50 v on the board.   Voltage 50V (always use the higher to be safe)  22uF.

[dextercf]

Yeah, voltage I'm not too conserned about. It's the uF value that gives my brain something to work with.
Is it correct if I assume using too low rate would be better, as It would fry easier. This would be better than allowing higher temperatures than supposed too?
I'm thinking; something along the line of the funktion with fuses..?

[BobA]

Breakdown of tantalum caps is a complex situation more related to surges in voltage than overall heat.  There are lots of articles on the explosive effects when the sponge inside breaks down.

[dextercf]

So, until I have time to dive into that theories more indepth.
Is my thoughts reasonable? Is it safe, regarding the rest of the board?
What could be the worst outcome of using the wrong value component?

[BobA]

Changing the uf of the cap is a bad idea.  It does not relate to power consumption like a resistor.  Worst case senario is that it will not function properly and the circuit it is in may not work.  For ps filtering too small a uf value will give poor regulation of the voltage. 

[dextercf]

I don't Want to change the uF, i Want to replace what was broken..
I feel stuck now.

[BobA]

So why not try a 22 uF

[boardjunkie]

Its likely not critical (the value), and anything 16v or more is fine. Space Invader boards are triple supply, IE +5, -5, +12v. Thats the highest voltage anything on that board will ever see. Since its tantalum, its just providing local filtering. The green ones are bypass caps to get rid of the spikes that a logic gate creates when it changes states.

Here's an idea.....get the manual for that version, find that part in the parts list, and replace it with what it says goes there and quit obsessing over it.....

[dextercf]

Got parts, soldered til my eyes where soar.

- TOKI is up and running. Only needs a cab now.

- Space Invaders won't boot after replacing the C2 (22uF 25V) cap.
When turning the cab on the PSU LED (A brand new PSU btw!) does not turn green, which it does with my other games
Any idea why?