Need help with PC replacement job

[techontap]

Hello all. My first post; I apologize for the length, but I'm trying to give as much detail as I can. I am not an arcade builder, but I DO know PC's very well. If I ask a newbie question, please beat me gently... My question has to do with how to replace the entire PC on an arcade with the least amount of change and config necessary. I need for the replacement to appear transparent to the user and require the least amount of configuration/software installation by me. I've been asked to build a new replacement PC for an arcade that has a dead mobo. I will be using new retail parts, no refurbs or retros. The arcade is a stand-up style cabinet with two player controls and a shelf for standard mouse/keyboard. The arcade has an arcade TV-type monitor with a PCB panel that appears to be digital (no vacuum tubes). I do not know the type/model/etc of the arcade,tube, or controls.

The PC was an older mid-tower with a K7 (ECS K7S5A) mobo, Athlon XP 1800+, 500MB RAM, and an AGP VGA vid card, all running under WinXP with MAME32 version 0.80.0. The hard drive was corrupted as a result of the slow death of the mobo. I was however, able to repair the drive and grab an image of the disk that is almost 100%. The mobo is dead and the HD is gasping. My thinking was that it was better to build a new system rather than try to piece that one together on new PCB. I noted that the controls on the arcade (buttons/joystick/etc) are connected to the PC via a PS2 cable plugged into the keyboard port and the mouse is plugged into the mouse PS2 port. The video was transferred from the AGP card via D-Sub output to the monitor control board via a standard VGA extension cable that is wired into the monitor PCB panel.

My biggest concerns are making sure I have compatible video output and arcade controls input/output without having to tinker with the arcade (non-PC) hardware. I had hoped to use onboard graphics to cut costs, but I've read that some games require AGP. How would I know? I'd also like to use the existing disk image files I already have as much as possible in the new PC so that I can transfer the same games/configs, etc. (again, I want the upgrade to be transparent to the user).

My assumptions:

- that a sub 3Ghz AM3/DDR3 single core Sempron system with onboard graphics is plenty adequate
- that it might be a good idea to upgrade to current MAME version.
- that I need PS2 connectors on the new mobo.
- that I can simply copy the ROMs and the ROM ini's from the old disk to the new.
- that there are controller config's/ini's within the MAME installation that I need to keep and transfer.
- that WinXP autostarts MAME.

That's more assumption that I am comfortable with, so I'd appreciate any knowledgeable opinions/thoughts on PC hardware requirements, whether my assumptions are even close to reality, and whether or not I'm on the right track. I'm especially interested in any "gotchas" that I need to watch for. I DO NOT want to install a new PC and find that the hardware, controllers, etc. don't work or that I have to spend hours rewiring, installing 4000+ ROMs or editing config files.

Thanks in advance!

[404]

I'm no expert in any of this but i can answer a few questions you have about mame and the new potential pc transplant.


All of your PC specs are going to be hinged on whatever the person using the arcade is planning to do with it from this point forward. If all he is using it for is classic (late 70's into early 90's) games then the lower spec systems should handle mame nicely, especially if you use a version of mame 1.06 and lower. 1.07 and above have a new rendering system and higher pc specs may be required to play games he may have previously played with no problems. I would also simply save the roms from the drive and possibly save the config for future reference. You should have no problems copying over the entire mame install but that version of mame is quite old already. The person you are helping out may be quite set in his ways though. that kind of thing would be all up to him on what he wants to do in regards to adding more games, features etc. These statements above will shape your entire mame build.

check to and be absolutely sure how the arcade controls and monitor are interfacing with the old pc. You said it was running from a ps2 cord so its likely using a classic encoder board. Try to find which model so you can get a better understanding of how it works. you will likely not need any special config for the encoder considering it is likely simulating keyboard presses but you never know for sure. Also, double check the AGP card. While likely the monitor inside is a standard pc monitor, some may actually be CGA and the AGP card inside may be a special card equipped to handle the monitor. It's always good to be 100% sure.

For some reason, most people contend that intel chips blow away AMD chips when it comes to mame. From what i gather, mame currently does not use more than 2 core multi-threading if they are present in the processor. Then again, AMD chips are simply more cost effective than intel models. Something to think about.

Personally i would use a minimized install of XP by either using Nlite or adding your own legit license to something like the tiny and micro versions of xp floating around the torrent sites. IMO, its worth the time and effort to have a no-nonsense OS running with few bells and whistles as possible. Configuring mame can sometimes be a pain for n00bs but once its all done you never need to mess with it again.

[techontap]

Thanks 404, very helpful info.

I recall that the "keyboard" PS2 cable came from the controllers area of the cabinet and a second cable came from the same area and ran to the actual keyboard. How would I confirm that it was a classic encoder board? Would there be any driver/config/ini files in the existing installation that I needed to transfer in order to ensure consistency?

Yes, these folks just want the arcade to be the way it was, they are not tech oriented and they don't want to spend a great deal of money. They have about 4000+ ROM's and the whole system is over 10 years old and the latest ROM is dated 2004, so I don't think they have (or will) add anything to it.  I will be using retail license XP and will slim it down some by cutting out unnecessary services, etc.. I was considering a single core Sempron. They originally had an AMD 1800+ so, I see no need to shift to Intel. I'm looking at a Biostar N68S3+ AM3... Do you have a recommendation for a low-cost, but stable and dependable mobo? They were also using a 5400RM drive and I'm moving to 7200 SATA, which should help.

Is MAME upgrade-able with that much distance between versions (0.80 to 0.160)? IOW, could I copy the existing install and then upgrade with a later version, say 0.106? I may setup a couple of VM's to see how this works out...

Thanks for your reply. It is helpful.

[404]

Thanks 404, very helpful info.

I recall that the "keyboard" PS2 cable came from the controllers area of the cabinet and a second cable came from the same area and ran to the actual keyboard. How would I confirm that it was a classic encoder board? Would there be any driver/config/ini files in the existing installation that I needed to transfer in order to ensure consistency?

Yes, these folks just want the arcade to be the way it was, they are not tech oriented and they don't want to spend a great deal of money. They have about 4000+ ROM's and the whole system is over 10 years old and the latest ROM is dated 2004, so I don't think they have (or will) add anything to it.  I will be using retail license XP and will slim it down some by cutting out unnecessary services, etc.. I was considering a single core Sempron. They originally had an AMD 1800+ so, I see no need to shift to Intel. I'm looking at a Biostar N68S3+ AM3... Do you have a recommendation for a low-cost, but stable and dependable mobo? They were also using a 5400RM drive and I'm moving to 7200 SATA, which should help.

Is MAME upgrade-able with that much distance between versions (0.80 to 0.160)? IOW, could I copy the existing install and then upgrade with a later version, say 0.106? I may setup a couple of VM's to see how this works out...

Thanks for your reply. It is helpful.

it is very likely the encoder is just a simple keyboard simulator judging as to it having a simple ps2 style plug.

Mame varies at times depending on the game. That gets quite complicated and so far, i have not bothered testing individual versions of mame against individual games. I do know that some people actually do this. Not worth my time IMO. I'm just not that dedicated to getting more performance at the per game level. If it doesn't work for me, i move on to the next playable game. From Mame 1.07 and on, the underlying rendering architecture changed greatly. You can see just how much of difference it made by checking out the chart at aaron giles page http://aarongiles.com/pix/mamespeed.png and searching the forum for "mame performance".

the Biostar motherboard is fine. Never been a huge fan of the Nvidia MCPxx all in one chipsets though. For a few dolllars more you can probably score an AMD based 7xxG motherboard for anywhere between 10-15 dollars more. Generally they come with radeon 3 or 4 series graphics output. Don't think a better board would "make or break" any of the games they have installed though.

[techontap]

Thanks again. Yes, I'm a Gigabyte fan myself, so I may splurge the extra few bucks for an AMD northbridge. Someone on another forum told me that the ROM's change and if I upgrade MAME, I'm potentially forcing myself to do a lot of reconfiguring and ROM upgrading... ?

[404]

Thanks again. Yes, I'm a Gigabyte fan myself, so I may splurge the extra few bucks for an AMD northbridge. Someone on another forum told me that the ROM's change and if I upgrade MAME, I'm potentially forcing myself to do a lot of reconfiguring and ROM upgrading... ?

no. However, roms can sometimes be re-dumped for whatever reason and sometimes support for the old bad roms will be dropped. Normally thats due to a bad dump or encryption on the original arcade board that prevents dumping the full contents of the game. I would personally leave that up to the arcade owner to deal with that.

[techontap]

Hey, I just wanted to say "thank you!" to all who posted here and helped out. I was able to get this client up and running again with a new system.

• DM-387 mATX Slim Computer Case w/ 275 watt PSU.
• AMD Phenom II X2 560 3.3GHZ dual core processor, retail package w/ factory heatsink.
• Asus M4N68T-M mATX motherboard
• 4GB DDR3-1333 Dual Channel Memory
• 40GB 7200rpm SATA hard drive

Copied their old disk contents onto new disk, started up mame32 and everything was okeedokee  

Installed new PC into arcade, hooked 'er up to the console and monitor panel, and played a game. Nice!!

I'm happy, customer's happy... happy customer happily pays. Life is good.


techontap

[404]

Hey, I just wanted to say "thank you!" to all who posted here and helped out. I was able to get this client up and running again with a new system.

• DM-387 mATX Slim Computer Case w/ 275 watt PSU.
• AMD Phenom II X2 560 3.3GHZ dual core processor, retail package w/ factory heatsink.
• Asus M4N68T-M mATX motherboard
• 4GB DDR3-1333 Dual Channel Memory
• 40GB 7200rpm SATA hard drive

Copied their old disk contents onto new disk, started up mame32 and everything was okeedokee  

Installed new PC into arcade, hooked 'er up to the console and monitor panel, and played a game. Nice!!

I'm happy, customer's happy... happy customer happily pays. Life is good.


techontap

That's great to hear. Even better to hear that they happily paid, best quote ever there. LOL!